Helix with PowerCab or Catalyst

[Perrin1710]

So I am looking for a great amp to compliment my Helix for on stage, rehearsal and 'bedroom' use. First obvious choice is the PowerCab 112+, but now the Catalyst entered. Different beast, but able to be used as a poweramp in combination with the Helix. And with midi some interesting options to using the basic Catalyst features from the Helix too. Oh, and at half the current retail price.

So making choices.... I have not yet come across information on what to base your choices on comparing the two. Any suggestions dear Helix friends? Does going for PwrCb mean loss of options without using the Helix? Does CTLST introduce limitations? And what about the sound?

Any advice much appreciated.

[rd2rk]

On 6/15/2022 at 2:27 PM, Perrin1710 said:

Does going for PwrCb mean loss of options without using the Helix?

 

Absolutely!

 

On 6/15/2022 at 2:27 PM, Perrin1710 said:

Does CTLST introduce limitations?

 

Yes, but much less serious than PC112+ w/o Helix.

 

On 6/15/2022 at 2:27 PM, Perrin1710 said:

And what about the sound?

 

If you spend an unhealthy amount of time over on the TGP D&M forum you'll find that some people really like the PC112+ even with modelers other than Helix.

OTOH, some people REALLY HATE the PC112+ sound, ESPECIALLY the speaker emulations - a major selling point. Most people agree that they suck.

 

Some people REALLY LIKE the Catalyst sound, and those who don't like it don't really hate it, they just prefer something else (usually tube amps, Fractal or Kemper).

 

I had a PC112+ and traded up to a PC212+ mostly for the increased bottom end of a 212 cab and the stereo feature. The PC212+ has issues with L6 Link, and both models are abandonware. Though L6 steadfastly refuses to respond to anybody about them, that in itself indicates the abandonware status and that there will never be any bug fixes or upgrades coming. Buyer beware!

 

I also at one time had a Katana100 MkI which I returned. After recently directly comparing Katana Artist MkII and Catalyst100 I bought the Catalyst and returned the KA. I'm VERY happy with my Catalyst100 and consider it the perfect companion to my Helix. If the Catalyst 200 was stereo I would have gotten that, but you can't always get what you want!

 

If you try a Catalyst, be aware that the speaker requires some breaking in, but not nearly as much as many other speakers.

Also, spend the $40 for the L6 LFS2 Footswitch. The cheaper alternatives have problems.

Later today I plan to post an extensive report on controlling the Catalyst. It probably won't make much sense if you don't have one, but I expect the reactions to be...interesting.

[Fenderflame28]

Have a look at the Line6 DT25 or DT50. Helix runs the pre-amp and the amp has a EL84 valve power section that the Helix can talk to via Line6 Link and run as class A or class AB Pentode or triode - not modelling, actual switching  the configuration of the power valves inside the amp.

 

 

[amsdenj]

I am very happy with Powercab 112+. i us it with Helix, HX Stomp and Quad Cortex. It's flexible and sounds great. I have some patches that use acoustic tones with a Variax and it does those great too. What works for you will depend on your needs. I also have a Powercab 212 that I'm less happy with. It doesn't sound as good as the 112+ to me and is a bit bigger than I need for most gigs. I use to use the speaker models, but haven't in a long time. FRFR is just simple and effective. 

[rd2rk]

Just thought I'd add that one of my favorite ways of using my Catalyst in combination with my PC212+ is to set up the Cat in 4cm with one Helix Path using ODs/Dist and (?), then take the XLR out from the Cat to the MIC Input on Helix as Input to a second Path, run the signal through a bunch of stereo FX and send that out the L6 Link to the PC212 with the PC212 in LF RAW mode (no HF Driver or emulations) and set to 200% stereo spread.

 

W/D/W BIG AMBIENT FUN!

 

If you're into that sort of sound, consider a PC212+!

[PierM]

Powercabs are fine, but whatever setup you are using, they suffer the "blanket over the speaker" sound. Again, as soon your ears are used to that sound, you are probably gonna be fine with them...but if you jump from other systems, like studio monitors, or Catalyst, or other and better solutions, you really hear that boomy and muffled output, especially if they are placed on the floor. Even my old FH1500 sounds better than the two PC+, but the thing is heavy as a truck, so I can only use it at home.

 

[rd2rk]

On 6/16/2022 at 1:47 AM, PierM said:

Powercabs are fine, but whatever setup you are using, they suffer the "blanket over the speaker" sound. Again, as soon your ears are used to that sound, you are probably gonna be fine with them...but if you jump from other systems, like studio monitors, or Catalyst, or other and better solutions, you really hear that boomy and muffled output, especially if they are placed on the floor. Even my old FH1500 sounds better than the two PC+, but the thing is heavy as a truck, so I can only use it at home.

 

 

No, they don't. That's called "operator error".

If you don't like the way they sound, that's fine and you have a lot of company.

ITRW, a 2-12 Zilla cab does not sound like a 2-12 Peavey cab, even with identical speakers. Use what you like.

But don't perpetuate this "blanket over the speaker" nonsense. I can set up my Powercab so that you'll think I've jammed an icepick in your ear.

This "blanket over the speaker" effect is most common when using the speaker emulations and is why most people say that the emulations suck.

While it's possible, with an extreme amount of tweaking, to get decent sounds out of the emulations, you shouldn't have to work that hard.

Thus, I agree with those who say that the emulations suck.

I use my Powercab either with IRs (York these days) or in LF RAW mode (HF Driver OFF) and it sounds just fine!

Yes, you gotta get it off the floor!

[PierM]

I use PCs since the day they released lol. Please dont teach me how to use them...XD

 

Never used their IRs. I use them as FRFR, and know every single aspect of them. The blanket is there, but as I said, as soon you are used to it, it will be fine. In fact I still use them. Also, blanket, the way I meant, means there is lack of clarity, Im not talking about highs or brightness. So there is not tips and tricks you can do to solve a clarity issue. Anyway, they are fine.

 

Opinions. ;)

[rd2rk]

On 6/16/2022 at 12:25 PM, PierM said:

I use PCs since the day they released lol. Please dont teach me how to use them...XD

 

Never used their IRs. I use them as FRFR, and know every single aspect of them. The blanket is there, but as I said, as soon you are used to it, it will be fine. In fact I still use them. Also, blanket, the way I meant, means there is lack of clarity, Im not talking about highs or brightness. So there is not tips and tricks you can do to solve a clarity issue. Anyway, they are fine.

 

Opinions. ;)

 

Well.... EXCUUUSE ME!

 

I don't hear any "lack of clarity" either. I must have gotten used to it before I bought it.

 

Yes, opinions. They're like...and everybody's got one! :-)

 

I read another good one today - Did you know that there are NO REAL CLEAN amps in Helix?

 

WOW!

[Perrin1710]

Thanks all of you for your generous input. Considering the price, sound and options, the Catalyst seems the way to go then. Great to hear some real experiences. Maybe if I buy one today I have it in before fathers day ;-)

[Perrin1710]

On 6/15/2022 at 11:35 PM, rd2rk said:

If you try a Catalyst, be aware that the speaker requires some breaking in, but not nearly as much as many other speakers.

Also, spend the $40 for the L6 LFS2 Footswitch. The cheaper alternatives have problems.

Later today I plan to post an extensive report on controlling the Catalyst. It probably won't make much sense if you don't have one, but I expect the reactions to be...interesting.

A separate footswitch; interesting. Is that to use the Catalyst standalone from a Helix? Because there is a footswitch option in there too right? Are you also looking into MIDI in your report? Great stuff.

[Perrin1710]

On 6/16/2022 at 1:02 AM, rd2rk said:

Just thought I'd add that one of my favorite ways of using my Catalyst in combination with my PC212+ is to set up the Cat in 4cm with one Helix Path using ODs/Dist and (?), then take the XLR out from the Cat to the MIC Input on Helix as Input to a second Path, run the signal through a bunch of stereo FX and send that out the L6 Link to the PC212 with the PC212 in LF RAW mode (no HF Driver or emulations) and set to 200% stereo spread.

 

W/D/W BIG AMBIENT FUN!

 

If you're into that sort of sound, consider a PC212+!

I was planning on doing 4cm as well and use the Send 3/4 into a stereo powered mixer. I love multichannel sound, so duh WDW! I have some patches in which I use my old Marshall Valvestate for these purposes. But I just hate carrying it around, because it is a heavy combo (and LOUD - I bought an attenuator to be able to play it at home, same for my vintage AC30). The Catalyst will be a lot more portable.

 

What post amp effects are you using in the catalyst? If you are using none (all in path 2a), you can actually just use the return feed on the back straight from the output of the Helix, right?

[rd2rk]

 

The LFS2 is the footswitch made specifically for use with Catalyst, standalone or with modelers.

IME other switches (and even the Ext Amp switches in CommandCenter) cause odd noises/behaviors.

BOSS FS series footswitches could be the exception, I don't have one to test.

 

MIDI works great and is the best solution EXCEPT when using Snapshots due to the one-way nature of MIDI.

For instance, if you activate an effect or boost using a Helix FS then change to a snapshot where that effect/boost is NOT activated, the Helix FS LED will NOT reflect that.

 

In order to have the FS LEDs match the actual Catalyst configuration you need to save the Preset/Snapshots with the footswitches in the correct condition.

If BOOST is activated in the Preset/Snapshot, the FS that controls BOOST must be saved ON.

Note that when a preset first loads, any messages assigned to latching footswitches will be sent, but that does not recur on snapshot changes.

[rd2rk]

On 6/17/2022 at 9:28 AM, Perrin1710 said:

What post amp effects are you using in the catalyst? If you are using none (all in path 2a), you can actually just use the return feed on the back straight from the output of the Helix, right?

 

In my W/D/W setup I'm not using the Catalyst FX other than BOOST, but there's no reason you can't.

 

In order to get the stereo/ambient effect you need to use stereo FX on Helix Path 2, as the input from the Catalyst will be mono.

With 8 available blocks, you can use whatever strikes your fancy, arranged any way you like.

Part of the joy of ambient music is the surprises that arise from experimentation with unlikely combinations of effects!

 

Since the Catalyst XLR already contains an IR (or eq simulation of a cab/mic?) you don't strictly NEED to use an IR on Helix, and if you're using a PC212+ for your stereo playback system you can always try loading IRs in the Powercab to spare dsp/blocks on Helix.

 

You can set the Output of Path 2 to XLR and send it to your mixer/playback system.

If you're using the PC212+ with on board IRs then you would use the PC212+ XLRs for that.

[Kilrahi]

Powercab user. I like the emulations too so sue me. 

 

The "blanket" claim doesn't make sense to me. They have a perfectly fine frequency response in flat mode. Play music through it - that's always my test. If music needs a helluva lot of tweaking then the flat mode is crap. Powercab sounds great first try. 

 

I never had any problems with the L6 link either. I'm not denying other people's experiences - but it's always been fine for me. I have a 212 because I need beef. 

 

Edit: I should say for the way I understand Helix, I greatly reccomend a Powercab, or any flat response, over the Catalyst, but at the end of the day, you do you boo. I'm sure it wouldn't suck and it brings some things Helix currently doesn't (MOSTLY - but not only - the models that are within it, but that could change). 

[rd2rk]

On 6/17/2022 at 4:10 PM, Kilrahi said:

Powercab user. I like the emulations too so sue me. 

 

The "blanket" claim is nonsense. They have a perfectly fine frequency response in flat mode. Play music through it - that's always my test. If music needs a helluva lot of tweaking then the flat mode is crap. Powercab sounds great first try. 

 

If it SOUNDS good it IS good!