How to find actual cabinet freq ranges (low/high freq range) from manufacturers of the real cabinet?

[bob_stevens]

Hi,

 

I've seen a few youtube videos that say that they check out the low/high freq range of the 'real' cabinet and adjust their presets to match.

From having searched myself I can't seem to find this kind of info, could anybody point me in the right direction?

 

Thanks,

Bob

[bob_stevens]

For example (taken from https://www.thomann.de/gb/eminence_the_copperhead.htm):

 

Actual Cab )helix cab based on)                   Helix Model                Frequency Range

1x10" Fender Princeton Eminence Copperhead

1x10 US Princess

70 Hz - 5 kHz

[datacommando]

On 11/13/2022 at 12:36 PM, bob_stevens said:

For example (taken from https://www.thomann.de/gb/eminence_the_copperhead.htm):

 

Actual Cab )helix cab based on)                   Helix Model                Frequency Range

1x10" Fender Princeton Eminence Copperhead

1x10 US Princess

70 Hz - 5 kHz

Hi,

 

Simple enough - just continue researching like you have been doing.

 

Go here:

https://helixhelp.com/models?categoryId=13
 

Check out the speakers, then Google for the tech spec sheets. 

example:

Le Grange - Grammatico.

https://www.jensentone.com/vintage-alnico/p12q

 

Simple.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[bob_stevens]

Thanks datacommando,

 

I did see that jensen one and saw the line for res. freq but it seemed to only state the low end frequency (for different ohmage - is that a word?) but not what I could find for a high frequency. I'm not all that savvie with the physics of sound or pretty much anything else on that jensen link. That's why the thomann link was good for me as it was simple for me to see.

 

Guess I should've asked if anyone has put together a list for this?

 

Still, thank you and yeah I'll just plug away and make that list instead......but if you've any advice about how to read that to use in helix that'd be great! ;)

[amsdenj]

The cab models or IRs for the speakers should already capture the speaker frequency response, possibly better than you could with EQ. You might adjust the low cut to account for bass coupling from the floor, and possibly adjust the high cut to limit fizz. But that seems to be less necessary with the new 3.5 cab models. 

[PierM]

On 11/13/2022 at 1:04 PM, bob_stevens said:

Hi,

 

I've seen a few youtube videos that say that they check out the low/high freq range of the 'real' cabinet and adjust their presets to match.

From having searched myself I can't seem to find this kind of info, could anybody point me in the right direction?

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

That's not a correct approach; the range you see in the manufacturer specs is referred to speaker only typically measured in a anechoic chamber with a measurement mic. An impulse response, and latest cabs, are based on full measurements of Speaker+Cab+Mic+Room.

 

If you arbitrary cut the range of a cab or IR, to be in the range of the raw speaker specs, you'll be basically interfering with the full simulation response.

 

As said above, a cab or a IR, already has its own correct profile.

 

Id shape that range through the low/high cut, only to compensate your actual speaker/monitors (still I'd leave them alone for recording), in the case something doesn't sound good. Like too boomy, too fizzy, etc... 

[datacommando]

On 11/13/2022 at 2:52 PM, bob_stevens said:

Guess I should've asked if anyone has put together a list for this?

Hmmm… well that would be rather futile, as I would guess folks are not particularly interested in that, more likely “what sort of difference does it make to the sound if I place a dynamic mic here on the cone edge”, “how much does the sound change if I swap the dynamic for a condenser or a ribbon”. Moving a mic just a fraction can change the audio significantly. That’s the only frequency that counts. In fact some people miss out amp and cabs entirely by taking the guitar signal straight into the desk. Don’t get too distracted by the science and use your ears. As noted by @PierM above - those measurements are done in an anechoic chamber, (I knew a guy who used to do that for a living).

 

I would be tempted to say that it’s not what it says on the technical specifications sheet, but what is captured by the mic and then how that signal is treated with, for example, EQ and or compression. The tech sheet should be thrown out of the window - what counts is the final audio that enters the auditorium, or gets printed to tape. Oops, showing my age - I should have said printed to disc.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[bob_stevens]

amsdenj, PeirM and datacommando,

 

Thank you for all the info an explanations so now realise that the sound would be too sterile (?) and devoid of the ambient sounds/full simulation added and that there is no need for either the cuts (unless for reasons stated, fizz or boom) or even a list.

 

Trust your ears comment and don't do anything to the cabs when recording - I'll give both a try!!

 

Thanks again,

Bob

 

 

[PierM]

On 11/15/2022 at 12:57 PM, bob_stevens said:

amsdenj, PeirM and datacommando,

 

Thank you for all the info an explanations so now realise that the sound would be too sterile (?) and devoid of the ambient sounds/full simulation added and that there is no need for either the cuts (unless for reasons stated, fizz or boom) or even a list.

 

Trust your ears comment and don't do anything to the cabs when recording - I'll give both a try!!

 

Thanks again,

Bob

 

 

 

Yeah.

 

Easy to prove; just try different mics and you will see how big difference they can make on both sides of the spectrum, outside the raw speaker range. An ir and a cab arent just speaker, but the interaction of all these elements. That's why they do measure in a controlled environment (measurement mics are virtually flat); to remove all ambient, cabinet and mic variables.

[DunedinDragon]

Chances are if you're trying to accomplish an "amp in the room" feel it's probably going to be less about mic positioning and more about other environmental factors such as early reflections and room coloration effects as that is what you ears are wanting to hear.  Of course none of those things are typically that relevant for live performances that get mic'd..which is what 99% of your audience is used to.