Helix LT and Behringer UMC204HD (+ capture wet and dry)

[lasthidingplace]

Hey guys,
 

Thanks for reading.  I have looked through various topics and performed many searches to try and find the right answer, and I keep finding variants of it but not exactly what I needed.  I thought in that case, I'd just ask outright based on my requirements :)

 

What I need to be able to achieve is:

 

• Use Line 6 Helix LT as pedal only (not interface)
• Continue to use Behringer UMC204HD
• Be able to capture wet and dry signals from the Helix LT separately

 

Is there any way to achieve this / what is the best option?

I am using Sonar, and my currently interface is preferred because A) I use it for my PC sounds and also B) I record vocals.

When I first hooked up the LT, it completely took over and disabled my Behringer - I could only then enable one or the other, so for now I have moved everything over to use the LT directly, but this does have some disadvantages:

 

• Controlling overall volume levels is more difficult (have to use my foot now haha)
• Headphones cable going under my desk and being awkwardly placed
• No idea how to record Mic from this

 

Any suggestions?  Baring in mind I only got this device yesterday and so have no idea how to fully use it yet - I played through all the presets one by one...that's all I've done thus far.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

[brue58ski]

Of course the obvious answer is just plug the outputs of the LT into your Behringer and bypass everything in your path to record the dry track. The first thing to consider is if you want to record a wet/dry signal at the same time, you would  not be able to record stereo using only the Behringer. You'd have to have one input dry and one input wet which the LT can do. But it would require patch planning. One option is you can put a SEND anywhere in your path and have that go to the Behringer so you could put it right after your input and SEND it to one of the Behringer inputs making that your dry signal. The SEND and returns are able to be set to instrument or line level. You could then have the main output go to the other Behringer input. Of course that means having to unplug the mic.

 

Regarding what you want to do, it's actually a little easier to do in the LT. You will have to manually change the interface in Sonar. The LT has 8 outputs over the USB and ouputs 7&8 can be made dry so you can use any of the others for your wet signal, meaning you can record the wet and dry signal at the same time. But, again, it would mean using the LT as an interface in Sonar. And unfortunately I find the Line 6 drivers do tend to make themselves the main interface I think.

 

Bottom line is it has a lot of options and so I'm pretty sure you can accomplish what you want but you will probably have to jump through a hoop or two to get it. If you could select two different interfaces in Sonar you could absolutely do this but I am pretty sure that is not possible. Pages 69-72 of the LT manual have the USB output info if you want to download it. I kind of skimmed through things so I hope this helps answer your question.

[lasthidingplace]

Thanks for answering what I'm sure is a question asked all the time - these are very useful options.  I think I could get used to the culture shock of controlling my PC volume with a guitar pedal instead haha

The main question now is - can the LT effectively record vocals, and if so - how?  I don't see the right XLR input on it for that.  Because yes, I would want to record the wet and dry at the same time to give me options later - my biggest regret of a 2015 album I have is that, I want to play with it again now that I have more production experience, but the guitar tones are locked in because I didn't record the dry as a separate track.

[rd2rk]

If you can get around the wiring problems, you can use the LT for everything, and use the Behringer as a MIC Pre:

 

Set the LT as your Playback device in Windows. That means connecting the speakers to the LT. That takes care of your PC sounds (which should be OFF for using a PC as an audio workstation - Google PC Optimization for DAW) and streaming.

 

Set the LT as your ASIO Device in Sonar. Be sure to check all of the I/O boxes.

 

In Global Settings>Ins/Outs set "Re-amp Src 7" to GUITAR. Record the WET guitar signal from USB 1/2 and the DRY signal from USB 7.

 

Run the Behringer's MAIN Line Out Left to RETURN 1 on the LT and set the Behringer's MIX knob to IN (full counter-clockwise - RTM - and the STEREO/MONO Switch to MONO. This routes the MIC signal directly to the Outputs, effectively making the Behringer a MIC pre only. 

In your LT Presets, place a RETURN at the end of the signal chain. Pull it down to split the Path, then pull down the MIX Block to complete the split.

Make the Split Block A/B and route the signal 100% A. This sends your guitar signal to the Main Outs and USB 1/2 for recording.

 

Make the Output Block on the split USB 3/4 or 5/6. You can add FX after the RETURN Block if desired.

Record the MIC signal from those USB (3/4 or 5/6) Outs.

 

EDIT: In order to monitor both the MIC and GUITAR signals from the LT Main Outs and HP, place a SEND 1 Block last in the MIC signal chain. Place a RETURN 2 Block last in the GUITAR signal chain. Patch SEND 1 to RETURN 2. Use the MIX parameter of the RETURN 2 Block to set the MIC vs GUITAR level.

 

Attached is a demo preset.

 

lasthidingplace2.hlx

[robertgoddard]

I know this doesn't answer your question, but Helix Native for $99 will solve all your problems.  Just plug your guitar and mic into the Behringer unit and you're done.  That's what I wound up doing.

[rd2rk]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:24 AM, robertgoddard said:

I know this doesn't answer your question, but Helix Native for $99 will solve all your problems.  Just plug your guitar and mic into the Behringer unit and you're done.  That's what I wound up doing.

 

Yep, that'll work, as long as your computer is powerful enough to use a low buffer setting for decent latency - (64 = <>7.5ms).

[datacommando]

On 1/12/2023 at 10:50 AM, lasthidingplace said:

What I need to be able to achieve is:

 

• Use Line 6 Helix LT as pedal only (not interface)
• Continue to use Behringer UMC204HD
• Be able to capture wet and dry signals from the Helix LT separately

 

Is there any way to achieve this / what is the best option?

Hi,

 

As you say that you are a relatively new owner of the Helix LT, there are a couple of points to note here. 

 

The Helix LT is a perfectly serviceable audio interface and quite capable of capturing the audio output from your guitar and turning it into a fully processed stereo signal that can be recorded by whatever your choice of DAW on USB 1&2. At the same time the Helix LT can simultaneously set to send a dry mono guitar track via USB 7. (See Helix LT 3.0 Owner’s Manual - page 69 - USB Audio). As you are already aware the LT hardware model is not designed to specifically handle a microphone input for recoding vocals (but not impossible). That covers both of your first and third bullet points, ignoring your saying - “not interface”, because like it or not that is part of the Helix LT design. Added to the fact that as a new owner of the LT you should be eligible for a discount on purchasing Helix Native which allows you to “re-amp” the dry signal from the LT. 

 

O.K. Your second bullet point is you want to continue to use the Behringer UMC204HD. No problem, because your LT has no dedicated mic functions, use the U-Phoria simply for recording vocals. I would guess that recording vocals separately to the guitar track would be a good move.

 

If you really are completely happy with Uli Behringer’s box of tricks for capturing audio, you could consider disposing of the 2 channel model and grab a UMC404HD, which would allow you to record the LT processed stereo output, plus by adding a Send Block first in the signal chain, you could simultaneously tap off a dry mono feed into the Behringer and use the forth input for a mic.

 

I realise you said you are new to the Helix LT, but I would seriously recommend that you experiment with it for a while. That way you will figure out how to control volume levels without using your foot. If you have issues with the headphone cable “going under my desk and being awkwardly placed” - try a longer cable, or change the awkward positioning. Finally, keep on using the UCM204HD for mic inputs.

Also, you didn’t say what your computer, operating system and DAW you’re using. If it’s a Mac, you have the ability to create an aggregate audio I/O setting to switch between your devices. If it’s Windows you may have to do a little more jiggery pokery to use both the LT and the 204.

 

Note: I have a Helix Floor via USB to my Mac running Logic, therefore the microphone input is not a problem, although I do have a UCM204HD simply as a fail safe backup box if needed as a “get out of jail free card”.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

https://line6.com/data/6/0a020a3f18374611d5dffd3a45/application/pdf/Helix LT 3.0 Owner's Manual - Rev D - English .pdf
 

 

[lasthidingplace]

Thanks for all the replies - sorry for not specifying what I'm using; Windows 11 and Sonar.

 

I have absolutely no issue continuing to use the Line 6 in the way it's intended, I was just trying to mainly get around the vocal issue.  I was recording some guitar last night and it's very easy to get the dry/wet signal recorded simultaneously with very little effort, and the Beringer certainly sounds no better, quality wise, so it's not a case of that either.

Vocals are the only main issue - I'm unsure how one would have two different interfaces connected at the same time, since Sonar (quite rightly) prevents them both being enabled at the same time.  Is it a case of having to go into the audio settings every time you want to switch them around?  Not ideal, but not terrible...

 

For Vocals, I've also seen suggestions for using something like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audix-T50K-Adaptateur-Impédance/dp/B0018STX4C/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=FxzRs&content-id=amzn1.sym.ef3907ff-f91d-4263-9e4a-2471c52bf60e&pf_rd_p=ef3907ff-f91d-4263-9e4a-2471c52bf60e&pf_rd_r=21YV5YJM6C84P8ZBTH6N&pd_rd_wg=nf9FZ&pd_rd_r=5e4e1f2a-6e14-4afd-aaa6-2a2fa7e4911b&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_atf_m

Not sure exactly what the results would be, but the cable isn't cheap itself so cautious before just randomly picking one up.

[rd2rk]

On 1/13/2023 at 12:56 AM, lasthidingplace said:

 

For Vocals, I've also seen suggestions for using something like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audix-T50K-Adaptateur-Impédance/dp/B0018STX4C/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=FxzRs&content-id=amzn1.sym.ef3907ff-f91d-4263-9e4a-2471c52bf60e&pf_rd_p=ef3907ff-f91d-4263-9e4a-2471c52bf60e&pf_rd_r=21YV5YJM6C84P8ZBTH6N&pd_rd_wg=nf9FZ&pd_rd_r=5e4e1f2a-6e14-4afd-aaa6-2a2fa7e4911b&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_atf_m

Not sure exactly what the results would be, but the cable isn't cheap itself so cautious before just randomly picking one up.

 

Yes, you can use one of those (I have a couple from WAY BACK in the days when a guitar amp did double-duty as a PA) into a RETURN, but it's not the same as using a proper pre-amp, which is why I suggested using the Behringer for that purpose into the LT as AI to the DAW.

[lasthidingplace]

So essentially (for vocals), whether its the Beringer or otherwise, the best option is that you would need a pre-amp before the mic hits the Helix LT, as it doesn't contain a pre-amp whatsoever?

[datacommando]

On 1/13/2023 at 8:58 AM, lasthidingplace said:

So essentially (for vocals), whether its the Beringer or otherwise, the best option is that you would need a pre-amp before the mic hits the Helix LT, as it doesn't contain a pre-amp whatsoever?

Hi,

 

Oh, yes it does have a Mic Preamp, check the Studio Tube Preamp (based on a Requisite Y).
 

You could use one of those £25 “Z-Changer” impedance transformers to take your mic XLR to one of the 1/4” Return Jack sockets to use as the input. Set the Return block before the preamp, then possibly a compressor, EQ and reverb - that should give you a basic vocal path out of the LT.

 

You could try this without the transformer first to see if you really need one, - you may get away without. Once again you didn’t say what type of microphone you have and want to use, because you have to realise this won’t work with any mic requiring phantom power.

Here ya go - here’s a video of a guy using one of those AUDIX transformer gizmos, to get his Shure SM7B mic into his HX Stomp where he adds the Studio Pre and the LA Studio Comp. Good enough?

 

 

Again - see the Helix LT 3.0 Owner’s Manual - page 65 - Global Settings>Ins/Outs for info about the Send/Return functions.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[lasthidingplace]

Thank you for the reply, and my apologies; I use a Shure SM7B currently.

[datacommando]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:55 AM, lasthidingplace said:

Thank you for the reply, and my apologies; I use a Shure SM7B currently.

No problem, and as you can see in the video the guy is using his SM7B along with the Audix-T50K into his HX Stomp perfectly well. That should solve the problem of having to switch audio interface drivers.

 

Give it whirl. Just stick into the guitar in from the converter.

 

Here’s another video from a guy using his guitar and a mic into his HX Stomp simultaneously.

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by datacommando
Added vid

[lasthidingplace]

Yes exactly, that's really helpful thanks - I'll look into it a lot more now that I know it's possible.

Still really learning everything about this pedal - been using Guitar Rig for the longest time, and before that I had a Floor Pod Plus, so this is a BIT of an upgrade to both of those (at least, I find it better than Guitar Rig, anyway)