Late to the party but how about that 3.5 update?

[mattbarden]

Quick background - I sold my Helix when I got an Axe FX 3. Both great devices, but I liked the Axe FX better. There are some quirks that made some things a lot more cumbersome, but overall I felt I was getting better results with it. Still kinda chasing them tones though...

 

Poking around my plugins a few weeks ago I noticed I still had Native so I figured I'd update it and play around with the new 3.5 stuff. Holy smokes that update was no joke!

 

I love the new cab engine. It feels good to move a mic around in real time instead of scrolling through lists. I did some comparisons with the York IR's I like and the new Cali V30 cab is a legit beast. Haven't even made it past that one yet but I don't think I'll need IR's anymore. Cabs make up for so much of the tone and before IR's were the best option IMO, but that's such a rabbit hole/money pit and after that whole experience I'd much rather use something that was specifically designed to work with the amp sims I'm using. I think they really nailed it here, everything sounds and feels much better to me than it did before.

 

The Pillars OD is sick, it has something to it I wasn't getting with the other OD's before. The Vitriol is awesome too, it's like a better version of the 5150 IMO. Wish we had the option for the boost but oh well, my personal favorite is still the Revv Red after going through them all again.

 

So unlike IR's lol, exploring the 3.5 update was actually a pretty fun rabbit hole to go down!

 

I was really digging the sounds I was getting out of what is essentially a stock Helix. No fancy IR's, no preset packs, just a few minutes alone with an updated version of Native. Definitely impressed, so I shot it out with the Axe FX in a song I'm working on and after a little bit more tweaking, I got much closer to the sound I was after with Native. Tone is subjective, but I liked what I heard and I got that sound a lot quicker with Native. It was also just kind of fun setting up the patch with how intuitive the Helix stuff is, I can't say I've ever had fun designing an Axe FX patch.

 

So nicely done Line 6, you just made me buy another Helix lol. I did get the cool blue one so that helps me justify it by telling myself it's not the same old one I had before, it's different. Upgrades! Going back to the ease of use with Helix is an upgrade in itself tho IMO. Fractal does many things well but intuitive accessibility isn't really their strong point. I'm a one man band so anything that can help me streamline my workflow while giving me the results I want is a godsend and Helix, especially paired with Native, ticks more of those boxes for me now than it did before the 3.5 update.

 

It's been really cool to see Line 6 continue to expand and improve the Helix platform since it launched. I see it like a completely different device now. They can have my Helix money twice, they earned it lol. Super stoked to see what they have up their sleeves next!

[theElevators]

Now if they could improve the hardware, it'd be a great machine.  Those footswitches are so cheap, an the EXP pedal always squeaks. 

 

Weirdly after I addressed the issues on 2 of my Helixes with the microswitches and the pedal, both units sort-of stabilized hahaha.   Anyway, I just want a machine that I would not have to worry about for years and years.  Sound-wise I'm happy with 3.11, and have no need to redo my 70 presets with 3.50 features. 

[Paulzx]

On 2/6/2023 at 5:30 AM, mattbarden said:

 

 

I love the new cab engine. It feels good to move a mic around in real time instead of scrolling through lists. I did some comparisons with the York IR's I like and the new Cali V30 cab is a legit beast. Haven't even made it past that one yet but I don't think I'll need IR's anymore. Cabs make up for so much of the tone and before IR's were the best option IMO, but that's such a rabbit hole/money pit and after that whole experience I'd much rather use something that was specifically designed to work with the amp sims I'm using. I think they really nailed it here, everything sounds and feels much better to me than it did before.

 

 

 

I'm always interested when someone has both devices and can make a comparison because I had my eye on an FM9 for a while, but like you, I feel the last update really put us back in the fight. The new cabs changed the Helix for me, I couldn't use any high gain patch without an IR and now, I don't use third party IR's in any of my new patches, just a combination of the new cab's. I don't feel the need to look at an FM9 at the moment. I think with the Helix, it has so many good features that with a few updates on the sound quality puts it right up there with the best again.

[mattbarden]

On 2/6/2023 at 6:47 AM, Paulzx said:

I'm always interested when someone has both devices and can make a comparison because I had my eye on an FM9 for a while, but like you, I feel the last update really put us back in the fight. The new cabs changed the Helix for me, I couldn't use any high gain patch without an IR and now, I don't use third party IR's in any of my new patches, just a combination of the new cab's. I don't feel the need to look at an FM9 at the moment. I think with the Helix, it has so many good features that with a few updates on the sound quality puts it right up there with the best again.

I'm a high gain player too and I agree, pre 3.5 I couldn't get a "good" sound out of my Helix without IR's and even then they still sounded off somehow. I think the sound quality of Helix post 3.5 is pretty fantastic though. I can dial in a good sounding patch in a lot less time now. All "in the box" and straight off the board if I feel like it, footswitches programmed and everything. The whole "just touch the switch you want that effect or whatever to be on and boom, it's there" setup is insanely easier than trying to route a midi controller!

 

Here's what really got me back with the Helix stuff though. Reamping is cool, but loading Native onto my DI tracks and taking a tone I ballparked solo and fine tuning it in a mix without having to mess around with reamping is 1,000x better and faster for me. Fractal doesn't have a digital version of their hardware living in my computer that I can screw around with in real time. Helix does and now it's proving to be a very effective solution after the 3.5 update. Reamping an Axe FX (properly and per the manual anyways) isn't as simple and straightforward as it is on a Helix either. If all I had was a Helix and reamping it would still be a bit easier. But I have Native, so why not just use that instead? Native is Helix's secret weapon in "the great modeling wars". It really unlocks the full potential of it, at least IMO. Reamping to fine tune your patches is effective but this is a lot faster and you can work with every guitar track you have Native loaded on at once rather than independently reamping one track at a time. Both can save the end patches and load them onto the hardware after reamping, but nothing works as good as Native and Helix combined for this now in my experience.

 

Don't get me wrong, Fractal has a lot of love and it's very well deserved. Metallica uses them live for a reason right? There's something about the feel of playing an Axe FX that I really like and I can't 100% match it in my Helix, at least not yet. If I had to describe that difference I'd say the Fractals feel a little more "loose and spongy" and the Helix feels "stiffer and slightly less dynamic" by my comparison. But is it different enough to care about if I can streamline everything else in my guitar workflow? No, they aren't that far off and you wouldn't even know the difference unless you played them side by side. The "stiffness" I feel with the Helix can actually be an advantage sometimes if I'm doing really precise palm muted stuff. Different picking techniques in general though translate a tiny bit better on the Fractal stuff. 

 

So for me at least that's why Helix now wins. The sounds are good, the workflow is good, what's not to like about that? The Vitriol Lead model is really growing on me now too, but could it replace my tried and true Revv Red? It just might...

[Paulzx]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:57 AM, mattbarden said:

Fractal has a lot of love and it's very well deserved. Metallica uses them live for a reason right? 

And Def Leppard are using them including the amp sims, so yes there is a good reason and it was an initial draw for me, but knowing i can get close with the Helix is good enough for me now. The Vitriol model is cool, but i think it must be pretty DSP intensive because I noticed you can't have as much stuff in the chain with that amp.

 

I agree with everything you said above. To describe Helix high gain I would say there is an inherent harshness in the top end and a boomy muddy quality in the low end. There are certain ways of dealing with that as we know, but you do have to go out of your way to get there, in fact, you have to know how to do it full stop. In my head I think I've always wanted an aggressive hi gain with depth, not just a fizzy top end IR type of depth, which is a lot closer with the new cabs. IR's were really helpful but even they do tend to produce a much boomier fizzier tone. It sounded bigger and fuller compared to the original cabs, but i notice the boomier fizzier qualities more now against the new cabs, those sound a lot tighter and clearer on the bottom end than my IR's now.

 

That's interesting what you said about Helix and Axe FX being close - see, close isn't good enough to switch. If I were to drop 2k on an FM9 or even more on an Axe III, I wouldn't want close, I would want a lot better because if you're going to sacrifice snap shots, foot switches, exp pedals etc for a 'better' sounding device, it had better be a hell of a lot better to be worthwhile.

 

I still think there's room for improvement with the amp models and cabs on the Helix but for the first time in a few years I'm actually quite happy with it.

[craiganderton]

Perhaps my favorite part about 3.50 is how much more efficient the cabs are. You can create much more evolved presets because there's enough CPU left over.

[mattbarden]

On 2/7/2023 at 7:59 PM, craiganderton said:

Perhaps my favorite part about 3.50 is how much more efficient the cabs are. You can create much more evolved presets because there's enough CPU left over.

This has definitely proven to open up a few more useful combinations too! I usually connect the two paths when I setup new patches anyways, but my pitch effects always live on path 1 with a clean amp and cab, path 1 seems less restricted now with the extra DSP available.

[Schmalle]

On 2/8/2023 at 2:59 AM, craiganderton said:

Perhaps my favorite part about 3.50 is how much more efficient the cabs are. You can create much more evolved presets because there's enough CPU left over.

That's really especially nice on the Stomp.

For me the new dual cabs are REALLY useful, sound great and are cheaper than a single cab / IR was before.

Here is one I really enjoyed lately:

Dual cab 50/50 mix
412 Cali V30, 57 Dyn, 3.3, 1.75", 0°
412 Cali V30, 57 Dyn, 4.3, 1.00", 45°

[mattbarden]

On 2/8/2023 at 1:00 PM, Schmalle said:

That's really especially nice on the Stomp.

For me the new dual cabs are REALLY useful, sound great and are cheaper than a single cab / IR was before.

Here is one I really enjoyed lately:

Dual cab 50/50 mix
412 Cali V30, 57 Dyn, 3.3, 1.75", 0°
412 Cali V30, 57 Dyn, 4.3, 1.00", 45°

I figured the Stomp users would really like that extra DSP! I'm digging the new Cali too. I love the sound of a good Mesa cab but even the best IR's I still found kind of lacking what I wanted from them in one way or another. This one's hitting some sweet spots for me though. Here's my current settings for it:

 

57 - cap edge - 1.00" - 0 deg - low cut 80Hz - hi cut 10.0kHz - level 0.0dB - center - 0.0ms

121 - center - 7.00" - 0 deg - low cut 80Hz - hi cut 10.0kHz - level -2.5dB - center - 0.02ms

 

Sounds awesome to me with the Vitriol Lead and Plumes OD!

[boynigel]

On 2/6/2023 at 12:30 AM, mattbarden said:

The Vitriol is awesome too, it's like a better version of the 5150 IMO

That's kinda what i thought too.

[boynigel]

On 2/6/2023 at 6:34 AM, theElevators said:

Those footswitches are so cheap

i thought i recall you admitting in one of your posts that you jump around a lot, would the footswitch failures have anything to do w/you being more rough than the average user?

 

On 2/6/2023 at 6:34 AM, theElevators said:

Sound-wise I'm happy with 3.11, and have no need to redo my 70 presets with 3.50 features

and I thought I was overly paranoid/hesitant about updates. ;) 

[boynigel]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:47 AM, Paulzx said:

I'm always interested when someone has both devices and can make a comparison because I had my eye on an FM9 for a while, but like you, I feel the last update really put us back in the fight. The new cabs changed the Helix for me, I couldn't use any high gain patch without an IR and now, I don't use third party IR's in any of my new patches, just a combination of the new cab's. I don't feel the need to look at an FM9 at the moment. I think with the Helix, it has so many good features that with a few updates on the sound quality puts it right up there with the best again.

I was on the FM9 waiting list for a bit over a year.  When i finally got my invite, 3.5 had just landed and i was really happy with it, even after watching all the FM9 videos.  I decided to try it out.  Got in my car to drive up to NH to pick it up, and was still conflicted when i hit a bunch of highway traffic.  after about 5 minutes of sitting at a stand still on the hwy, i said, "screw this" and got off at the next exit to turn around and go home.  No regrets.

[boynigel]

On 2/7/2023 at 7:51 AM, Paulzx said:

That's interesting what you said about Helix and Axe FX being close - see, close isn't good enough to switch. If I were to drop 2k on an FM9 or even more on an Axe III, I wouldn't want close, I would want a lot better because if you're going to sacrifice snap shots, foot switches, exp pedals etc for a 'better' sounding device, it had better be a hell of a lot better to be worthwhile.

the law of diminishing returns comes to mind

[theElevators]

On 2/15/2023 at 8:39 AM, boynigel said:

i thought i recall you admitting in one of your posts that you jump around a lot, would the footswitch failures have anything to do w/you being more rough than the average user?

 

and I thought I was overly paranoid/hesitant about updates. ;) 

I use the foot switches normally -- I press them gently, not like I put my body weight on them.  The jumping around context was that I may accidentally miss and don't ever want to change my settings or change presets while I play. 

 

Once the micro switches were cleaned, they seem to be absolutely fine... just that you need to clean them and check that they are working OK from time to time.  Plus the horrible repair shop experience I've had...

 

 

On 2/15/2023 at 8:39 AM, boynigel said:

 

and I thought I was overly paranoid/hesitant about updates. ;) 

If I'm happy with my sounds and all the presets have everything they need to have... then why upgrade just for the sake of upgrading...? 

 

For example, once I learned that Line 6 finally added the acoustic sim and improved spring reverb, I immediately upgraded because those were the features that I had been waiting for.  Now, I do not need anything beyond 3.11... I don't need dual IRs for my amp, etc....  Plus yes... I have 60+ presets, so I don't feel like redoing all of them to take advantage of some new bells/whistles. 

[boynigel]

On 2/15/2023 at 3:07 PM, theElevators said:

I use the foot switches normally -- I press them gently, not like I put my body weight on them.  The jumping around context was that I may accidentally miss and don't ever want to change my settings or change presets while I play. 

 

Once the micro switches were cleaned, they seem to be absolutely fine... just that you need to clean them and check that they are working OK from time to time.  Plus the horrible repair shop experience I've had...

 

 

If I'm happy with my sounds and all the presets have everything they need to have... then why upgrade just for the sake of upgrading...? 

 

For example, once I learned that Line 6 finally added the acoustic sim and improved spring reverb, I immediately upgraded because those were the features that I had been waiting for.  Now, I do not need anything beyond 3.11... I don't need dual IRs for my amp, etc....  Plus yes... I have 60+ presets, so I don't feel like redoing all of them to take advantage of some new bells/whistles. 

i hear you.  i'm actually in the same boat because i use my helix into the effects loop return of my amp...which means i don't use cabs.  I could have sworn you mentioned in another post a while back that you like to wait a good while, as a general rule of precaution, before jumping on the update bandwagon.  maybe i mixed you up with someone else.

[theElevators]

On 2/15/2023 at 3:17 PM, boynigel said:

i hear you.  i'm actually in the same boat because i use my helix into the effects loop return of my amp...which means i don't use cabs.  I could have sworn you mentioned in another post a while back that you like to wait a good while, as a general rule of precaution, before jumping on the update bandwagon.  maybe i mixed you up with someone else.

no, that's always been my strategy.  Ain't broke, don't fix.  But 3.0 came out during the pandemic... so no shows to speak of, so of course I jumped on that bandwagon asap, and incorporated the new features I so desperately needed.  After that I'm all set. 

[theElevators]

On 2/15/2023 at 4:11 PM, MGW-Alberta said:

Remove bottom cover and then remove the treadle bolt and lubricate both the bolt shank and the rubber bushing it pivots in with 3 In One silicone lubricant.

You might have to do it again in about a month because the silicone will absorb into the bushing but after the second time it should be good for about a year or maybe more.

already addressed it, thanks.  Just saying that this should not happen after a year of light use...

[mattbarden]

On 2/15/2023 at 5:32 PM, MGW-Alberta said:

 

LOL  You're lucky!!
Mine squeaked from day 1, right out of the box.

If memory serves, I think it might have been how I found this forum.  

I started searching for a cure almost immediately after I got it and somebody (probably on TGP, I think) posted a link to this place.

Anyway, I lubed mine twice in the first two months and then again after about 18 months.  

It's been 4 years since then and still quiet.

The expression pedal on the original black one I got a year after launch was perfectly dialed in out of the box. The new blue one I got I did need to take the hex key too but no squeaks from either thankfully. Weird how that happens to some and not others?

[mattbarden]

On 2/15/2023 at 2:55 PM, theElevators said:

no, that's always been my strategy.  Ain't broke, don't fix.  But 3.0 came out during the pandemic... so no shows to speak of, so of course I jumped on that bandwagon asap, and incorporated the new features I so desperately needed.  After that I'm all set. 

I'd say your good to go updating now for some maybe not needed, but extra goodies! 3.5 firmware is very stable in my experience and your patches don't have the potential to change drastically like they do after an Axe FX update with Line 6 stuff. More stuff if you want to go "gear shopping for free" is never bad thing lol