I need guidance for Helix Native

[APSRN]

I just installed Helix native free trial on my PC. I'm using a Behringer U-phoria UM2 interface. I have also downloaded cakewalk.

I've messed around with it for nearly 2 hours and can't seem to figure out how to get any sound out of this thing.   None of this is intuitive at all, which is frustrating because I'm actually pretty adept with technology... But this is totally new to me.

It could be drivers, my setup the cycles of the moon...

 

I thought it would be easy, just connect the interface, download a program and go. Not.

 

I'm just want to try Helix before investing thousands of dollars in the floor units for myself and my son.

I've looked online for step-by-step instructions, and they are full of technical jargon of which I'm unfamiliar, and not at all detailed.

 

Would someone be willing to provide tedious step by step instruction on how to simply try Helix native?

 

Many thanks

Bob

[silverhead]

First, can you confirm that Cakewalk is working and that you are able to record and play back a guitar track? If so, record a dry (unprocessed) guitar track to use as the basis for getting Helix Native to work. 
 

Are you familiar with plug-in processing in a DAW, in this case Cakewalk? Are you able to insert other plugins in your dry guitar track?

 

After confirming the above we can work on the specifics of Helix Native.

[datacommando]

On 3/24/2024 at 3:54 PM, APSRN said:

I have also downloaded cakewalk.

I've messed around with it for nearly 2 hours and can't seem to figure out how to get any sound out of this thing.   None of this is intuitive at all, which is frustrating because I'm actually pretty adept with technology... But this is totally new to me.

 

HI,

 

If you are completely new to using Cakewalk there is this video describing how to install VST plug-ins.

 

 

If this doesn't get you up and running there are a bunch more video episodes about Cakewalk.

 

Hope this helps makes sense.

[rd2rk]

Hi APSRN!

 

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Digital Music Madness!

 

I haven't used Cakewalk in many years (prefer Reaper), so it took me a bit to get this configured properly. Hopefully I've properly documented the steps.

 

 

Open Cakewalk. Go to FILE>NEW. The default should be BASIC. Name the project NATIVE and SAVE (click OK).

Go to EDIT>PREFERENCES>AUDIO.

In PLAYBACK AND RECORDING>DRIVER MODE select ASIO.

In DRIVER SETTINGS click the ASIO PANEL. If it doesn't appear ALT-TAB until you find it.

The SAMPLE RATE should auto-detect from your AI's Driver (probably 44.1k or 48k - don't worry about it).

Set the BUFFER SIZE to 64. Later, when you're playing, if you get clicks/dropouts/other weird noises come back here and try 128.

 

**The BUFFER SIZE determines the Latency. Round Trip Latency (RTL) is the amount of time between when you PICK a note and when you HEAR it.

Lower is better, but how low you can go is dependent on your computer's power, mostly processor speed.

You should also google Windows Audio Optimization for DAW and configure your computer accordingly.

 

Go to DEVICE. Refer to the above screenshot. My Audio Interface is a Focusrite Scarlett.

Select ALL of the Input and Output options for your AI (1-2).

 

Click APPLY and then OK (3-4).

 

Follow the numbered steps.

5-In the FX slot, right-click and select INSERT AUDIO FX>Uncategorized>Helix Native.

6-In the INPUT Box select whatever your AI calls USB 1 (or whichever input your guitar is plugged into).

7-Activate the TRACK RECORD button (won't record until you activate the TRANSPORT RECORD button at the top of the UI below the MENU BAR).

8-Activate the INPUT ECHO button.

 

You should now be able to play and record if desired (by clicking the TRANSPORT RECORD button).

 

Questions?

 

 

 

 

 

[datacommando]

On 3/24/2024 at 7:47 PM, rd2rk said:

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Digital Music Madness!

Once again, above and beyond the call - salute!

[APSRN]

Ok, I do have the VST plugin installed, as I see it in the "browser" window on the right side of the screen.  

I believe I had this before, so I was headed in the right direction. 

 

Next step?  :)

 

bob

[rd2rk]

On 3/24/2024 at 3:58 PM, APSRN said:

Ok, I do have the VST plugin installed, as I see it in the "browser" window on the right side of the screen.  

I believe I had this before, so I was headed in the right direction. 

 

Next step?  :)

 

bob

 

Please see my step by step with screenshot post.

The "browser" window on the right side of the screen just indicates that Helix Native is installed on the computer and Cakewalk found it.

Now you need to put the VST on a TRACK per my instructions.

[APSRN]

Wow! I cannot thank you enough for such incredible detail!

This is a whole new complex world. It was apparently designed for professionals, but it seems like there could be a simpler version for casual users; a simplified UI with an advanced “under the hood” option for pros.

 

I now have dry guitar sound through the headphones, but Selecting (loading) presets make no difference in tone.  It looks like the preset is in the signal path, but it apparently isn't.

 

This was one area that I couldn't follow exactly:

 

"7-Activate the TRACK RECORD button (won't record until you activate the TRANSPORT RECORD button at the top of the UI below the MENU BAR)."

 

I didn't see a track record button, or a transport record button. I see record comping at the top, a record button in the box that shows the audio/ASIO, HELIX native, etc.

 

Obviously, a setting is goofed, either in Helix, Cakewalk or even my AI.

How do I access the Helix preset tones? 

 

Again, many thanks for being  patient.  Ironically I have to be very patient with my residents, so I know it isn't easy. 

 

Bob 

 

[silverhead]

It sounds like you may need to activate the Control Bar view in Cakewalk (see the Views tab at the top line menu items of Cakewalk).

 

Also. if you already have a dry guitar track recorded you just need to insert the Helix Native plugin on the track (see the FX item associated with the track) and playback (not record) the track. There's no need to record another track (the #7 step you quoted above).

[APSRN]

Ok, the control bar view was already active.

 

I just recorded some strumming...not sure how to insert the plugin onto the track.  The box appears to show the Helix is in the path and on.

 

Edited to add that I was able to record and play back (the dry signal only), not I can't.  

Sigh.

 

[rd2rk]

IDK what your attachment is, it's a .php file and Windows doesn't read them. If it was a screenshot, save it in one of the standard formats like .jpg.

 

Refer to my screenshot. On the TRACK, #7, the RED square with the YELLOW dot" That's the TRACK RECORD switch. If you hover your mouse on it it should say "RECORD=ON". The YELLOW square to the right of that, #8? That's the always confusing "Input Echo" switch. If you hover over it it should say "INPUT ECHO=ON".

If the Input Echo switch is not ON, all you'll hear is the dry guitar signal.

 

Up top, the section with << and >>? That's the TRANSPORT (like an old-fashioned tape recorder). The GREY square with the RED dot is the RECORD switch.

[APSRN]

Thanks for the follow up.

Yes, I have selected the record on and input echo buttons.

I also used the larger record button at the top.

 

The .php file is weird.  I took a quick pic of the screen with my phone, so it is a .jpg...it apparently was converted to a different format when uploaded to this site.

 

Not sure if it will make any difference, but I'll try again.

Hmmm...I couldn't insert an image via URL. The site wouldn't allow it.  Cute.

I pasted links manually.

 

Unless you can think of some other issue, I think I'm at a dead end.

I did notice 

 

Thanks for the help.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e571svsKyDraQ8897

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UgDLuRuQuvx9Bgfk9

 

 

Bob

 

 

[rd2rk]

Download and install the BEHRINGER ASIO Drivers.

 

Behringer | Downloads

 

ASIO4ALL is a third party driver and is NOT the best choice for a number of reasons.

 

[APSRN]

Oh crap!  

How the heck did I get wonky drivers?

 

Was about to give up, but my son is a very cool kid (taekwondo black belt, in the sheriff's explorers, and a pretty good guitarist) and wants a Helix of some sort for his 15th birthday.

Before dropping the cash, I want to assure that it lives up the the hype.

 

I shall trash the bad drivers and install the proper ones.

 

Edit: I did get the driver's from Behringer, and they are ASIO4ALL.  

 

Oh well.

 

Bob

[rd2rk]

It MORE than lives up to the "hype". In fact, the real deal sounds BETTER than Native (IMO).

They're SUPPOSED to sound the same, but they don't.

I have a Helix Floor, HX Stomp, and Catalyst 100. All great!

If you want something at an "intro" price, look into the new POD Express.

 

[datacommando]

On 3/25/2024 at 8:54 PM, APSRN said:

 

Before dropping the cash, I want to assure that it lives up the the hype.

 

Hi,

 

I have been observing this from the sidelines and you mentioned that you have bought an entry level Behringer U-Phoria UM2 audio interface and also downloaded a freebie copy of Cakewalk, along with the trial version of Helix Native. Now hopefully @rd2rk has guided you through the real basics of getting a guitar signal into your DAW and hopefully processing it in glorious stereo via Helix Native. Great! 
 

The one really important thing that you haven’t told us is - what are you monitoring the audio on? 
 

If you are listening on cheap computer speakers, such as those used for some gaming PC, prepare to be very, very disappointed.

 

If you want to be assured that HX Native lives up to the “hype”, you need to be listening to it on a suitable output system, either reasonable small home studio powered monitors, or at least a decent set of studio quality headphones. Don’t fall at the first fence. Lots of people have failed to be impressed by digital audio when listening on completely unsuitable equipment.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

EDIT: There is no hype involved, I bought a Helix floor unit way back in 2015, and followed up with Native the week it was released. I use this stuff almost everyday, no complaints.

 

[APSRN]

It does appear that most people love the Helix series.  

 

According to many, the tones are impressive, and it isn't considered difficult to use.

 

Unfortunately I can't confirm this because I cannot get a wet signal to my headphones or speakers.  

I know the quality of the devices can make a huge difference.  I'm prepared to drop up to $3000 on 2 helix stomp xl's and FrFr speakers, but I can't even tinker with the functionality.

 

Rather than spending hours tying to get digital modeling in Place, I can grab a used DSL40 for under $1000 and instantly get some great tones, just not at low volumes (attenuator helps, but squashes some of the tone, IMHO).

 

If I can't get the Helix Native wet signal to work, how can I  be sure that I can use presets or IRs with the Helix hardware units?

 

That is where I am.  

Despite following several very well-written directions, I can't test the tones or functionality.

 

Sure looks like fun!

 

Oh, I tried Cantabile, and have the same issue.  The signal meters show no activity, so I assume the signal is not getting to the DAW.

 

Bob

 

 

[rd2rk]

You said that you recorded dry guitar, so the signal is obviously getting to the DAW. Why it's not being processed by Native is the question du jour.

Did you get the proper drivers installed?

On the BACK of your UM2 there's a switch called DIRECT MONITOR. This should be OFF (OUT).

[datacommando]

On 3/26/2024 at 12:15 AM, APSRN said:

Oh, I tried Cantabile, and have the same issue.  The signal meters show no activity, so I assume the signal is not getting to the DAW.

You told us about the UM2 and Cakewalk, but then didn’t say how you were monitoring the audio in this set up. Now we are getting a few more clues. It’s a big help to everyone to know what your computer and operating system are.

 

It appears from what you are telling us that your PC is not responding to the USB audio input. Have you checked your settings to make sure that your computer is aware that the Audio Interface is actually connected. 
 

I know you said that you have installed the ASIO4ALL driver, but when I checked the promo video for the interface it is described as “plug and play” USB compliant, not needing a dedicated driver. 
 

Thankfully, I’m a Mac Jockey and for me all the stuff just works, no hassle. @rd2rk is the PC guru for this sort of thing so I will defer to his judgement, but as far as I can tell you have a connection issue, especially as now it also doesn’t work in a VST host.

 

It’s almost 1.30am, so I’m outta here for now.

 

[rd2rk]

I can feel your frustration with this.

I currently have 5 audio interfaces. Focusrite Scarlett is my MAIN AI, the rest are built into Line6 and IKMM HW.

I have NEVER had this much trouble getting one to work in ANY of the DAWs I've used over the years:

 

Cakewalk; Ableton LIVE; Reaper; Studio One; ProTools; Cubase; Mixcraft; FL Studio - I think there's a couple more that I just don't recall right now.

 

Every one of my interfaces have their own driver (including the two that have died over the years - M-Audio and Roland).

 

If the DIRECT MONITOR button is not the fix, give this a try:

 

Here's a link to DL the actual Behringer Drivers for the UM2. Since this is not an official Behringer site and I do not have a UM2 I can't test them.

 

https://bit.ly/64_Bit_Driver_Behringer

 

Here's a link to where the driver link came from with instructions for installing and using them.

He's using a different DAW but combined with my instructions you should be able to figure out the parallels in Cakewalk.

 

 

[APSRN]

Thanks folks, I'll give it a try later today, hopefully.

I have tried with the direct monitor button on the front engaged and off.

Engaged, I hear the guitar.  Off, I hear nothing.

 

Hmm.  I noticed that the metronome sounds (originating from the programs) come from the computer speakers, but the guitar sounds are through the headphones connected to the AI.

 

rd2rk made the point that I was able to record (though I'm  not interested in recording...I now can't can't record, for some reason).  I should reset Cakewalk and go through the settings again per the above instruction.

 

My computer isn't a gaming computer but the specs are decent (don't recall specifics, but only 2 years old, Core i5 at decent speed, SSD, absolutely minimal apps/processes-I like a lean computer).

The speakers are on, of course, and volume way up.  

 

What a weird issue.

The driver thing is super odd.  I know Behringer is a budget name, but recommending inferior drivers is nuts.

I'll tear everything out and start over.

 

Ok...I was pondering the issue, and recall having some hardware in the past that did not get along with USB 3.0, which my AI is connected to.

Sure enough, I've found many posts where the Behringer didn't work through USB 3.0, requiring the use of a 2.0 port.

 

I'll start over and try a 2.0 port, but may no be able to get to it today.

 

Again, many thanks for the help.

 

Take care everyone,

Bob

 

[APSRN]

I was able to get tones today with the updated drivers via Cantabile (might work with Cakewalk, but haven't tried)!

 

But...there is a nasty, loud, continuous hiss that I  need to track down.

 

Also, I think I'm hearing a dry/wet mix instead of full wet because the tones aren't nearly as saturated (don't sound good at all) as expected.

Not sure where to find the settings for dry/wet mix.  

The input ports are stereo into helix, stereo out to main speakers, so maybe that setting is diluting the mix...

 

More homework...

 

Edited to add: super glitchy.  Suddenly had no sound at all via headphones, but a dry signal was hitting the computer speakers.  But there was a wet/dry mix knob.  How convenient!  I was provided a knob without sound.

Closed and restarted, sound was back, mix knob gone.

It is possessed!  Anyone have a gallon of holy water?

 

Bob

 

[rd2rk]

Here's another thing to consider - SOME USB powered AI's are noisy.

 

I know that you don't want to hear this, but maybe it's time for some "tough love".

 

You bought the cheapest AI on the market from a mfr that is known for crappy low end hardware.

They don't even provide drivers!

 

How many hours have you spent on this project? IDK about you, but the last job I worked before retiring was driving a truck for $25/hr.

I'm almost up to two hours (the price of the unit) just trying to help you make it work.

Just go out and get a Focusrite Scarlett Solo (3rd or 4th gen - <>$100) and be done with it.

If you get it at GC or Amazon you can even return it if you decide you don't like it.

[datacommando]

On 3/24/2024 at 3:54 PM, APSRN said:

None of this is intuitive at all, which is frustrating because I'm actually pretty adept with technology... But this is totally new to me.

 

I have gone right back to quote your original post regarding all this stuff, and generally in this situation I would recommend that you find a 15 year old kid to set this up for you. You say you have a son that age - can he not help you with this as you appear to be having a technological nightmare?

 

Really this stuff is not that complicated.

 

Thus far, you have spent the best part of a week messing around with a cheapo Audio Interface, a freebie DAW and VST player, plus the demo version of Helix Native, and become increasingly frustrated along the way, All of this is just because you want to check if it sounds as impressive as the so called "hype". Well, possibly the best option would be to stop jiggering around with this stuff that you find to be beyond your comprehension and visit your local retailer and try out the hardware.

 

Take day out to try the real thing rather than this torment.

 

And if you do that, let's hope that you can navigate and edit the hardware easier than this situation.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[APSRN]

 

My statement quoted above was accurate. I've been building and programming computers on and off (manually entering code on old Radio Shack Tandy units, and later tinkering with Linux and the various distros) for almost 46 years. 

I also admitted my weakness, that I am new to the digital recording world.

 

The process should not have been too complicated, but in my case it was. Which is why I reached out to this forum.

 

In fairness, I think anyone new to the digital recording world would  look at the excellent instructions provided above and conclude that the process wasn't exactly intuitive, and required learning even more lingo than I had come across in my research.

 

The issues I encountered clearly have nothing to do with my technical capability.

There's obviously some some persistent hardware or software issue, despite closely following very detailed instructions.

 

Even the gurus on this forum are surprised at the difficulty I have encountered.

 

By the way, I did do fair amount of homework before I even tried using the software/hardware. When I encountered issues, I tried to figure things out on my own by searching online watching videos, reading as much literature as I could find. But nothing helped. I didn't just throw this stuff together with zero baseline knowledge and then come running to this forum complaining about my challenges.

 

You seem borderline offended that I am persistent in my troubleshooting endeavor.

It has definitely been a uniquely frustrating experience.

And you initially provided assistance. Thank you.

 

But, at some point you apparently found my posts bothersome. 

Rather than assuming I'm running into an undiagnosed tech issue, you assumed I'm inept.

Instead of ignoring me, you chose to write a post dripping with sarcasm, intended to demean my technical ability. 

 

Doesn't bother me at all, I'm too old to be bothered by online posturing. 

There is always someone toxic  like you on these forums just itching to display their superiority.

 

Aren't these forums intended to provide support for users and potential users of the product?

Instead of being an ambassador, you helped turn me away from Helix and Line 6 in general.  

I know that I can't come here for help with Line 6 products.

Nice work.

I wonder if the folks at Line 6 are ok with forum members driving away customers? 

 

Advice to just go check out a unit is legitimate. But don't I have to utilize the software on my computer to realize the full potential?

 

Why would I go through the trouble of purchasing the Stomps when I can't use the line six software on my computers?

 

Regarding the term "hype."

To be clear, I never said that the Helix system was hype. I merely stated that I wanted to assure for myself that it was not just hype.

And of course, make sure that I like the workflow, and that the software will work with my computers.

 

Funny that you mentioned my 15-year-old. 

I re-mounted a fresh image and told him to take a crack at it.

Almost 2.5 hours later he came downstairs in a state of frustration stating he couldn't get it to work.

He even tried with our laptop.

 

He asked if he could try installing Neural DSP, I said go for it.

About 15 minutes later he excitedly called me upstairs because he was jamming with some nice tones.

 

On the same computer. With the same "cheapie" hardware. With demo version software. With the same cables. Through the same USB port.

 

I asked my son what he had done to get the Neural DSP software running. He said he didn't do anything special at all.

He installed the software, and It. Just. Worked. :)

 

Thank God that this technically challenged guy has a genius son!

 

Bob

[lou-kash]

On 3/30/2024 at 11:20 AM, APSRN said:

He installed the software, and It. Just. Worked. :)

 

As a Mac user I can only confirm that Helix Native also. Just. Works. The latest version even still works on MacOS El Capitan, although it's no more officially supported. ;)
Unfortunately I can't help with any PC troubleshooting. (After all, there's a reason why I've been working with Macs since 35 years…)

Good luck nonetheless. :)

[rd2rk]

@APSRN- I'm not sure which of us pushed your button. I hope it wasn't me!

I've tried my best for you, and truthfully, I am baffled by your problem.

My suggestion to try another device was well intentioned.

Many thousands of people have Native working flawlessly, and I've personally helped many to get there.

There comes a point where, when everything else is right, you have to consider that maybe it just might be that specific piece of gear causing the problem, and the only way to eliminate it is to try something else. Maybe the device itself is defective?

 

My recommendation of the Focusrite was based on many years of using their products and my own experience with being unable to get certain Behringer products to work, EVEN WITH OTHER BEHRINGER PRODUCTS! 

Not that ALL Behringer products are bad, but the low end is infamous. And even if you manage to get your UM2 to work with ASIO4ALL you won't like the latency.

 

Anyhow, please consider my suggestion, and I hope you get it all to work. Native is a great product, and I own every major amp sim and have trialed almost every minor player in the market for comparison. There's also no reason why Cakewalk shouldn't work - it was my first DAW over a decade ago when it was still called SONAR and even as a FREE DAW it remains an excellent, well supported product.

 

FWIW - many of us on this forum are former IT Pros. I started on a C64 in the '80s and spent over 10 years as a freelance applications developer and Network Administrator before I got fed up with the crap and the constant rat-race and switched to driving a truck, which suited my personal temperament much better!

I'm still the support network for everybody I know who owns a Windows computer. 

[datacommando]

On 3/30/2024 at 10:20 AM, APSRN said:

You seem borderline offended that I am persistent in my troubleshooting endeavor.

 

Hi, Bob,

 

Well, I guess it was my comments that pushed you over the edge, but I really wasn't "borderline offended" by your issues. In fact I was rather amazed at how complex and frustrating this had become for you. As stated - this stuff is not that complicated, or, at least it shouldn't be, especially for someone with your background.

 

My quip about having a 15 year old kid fix it is a very feeble attempt at putting some humour into the situation. Furthermore, even though you feel my last comments were sarcastic you really must admit they are not only accurate, but also true - you have spent the best part of a week trying to get this thing off the ground. You also do appear to be suffering a technological nightmare. It's completely beyond me why you have not been able to get this thing firing on all cylinders, (maybe you are living above an ancient burial ground or some other weird influence). Plus, it now seems that your son actually did manage to coax some audio out of your rig. Lighten up fella, it's getting there. 

 

I initially pointed you to a YouTube video about installing plugins into Cakewalk, and mentioned that there was a whole series (15 episodes) covering all you should need to get up and running with that particular DAW. Surely that must have been easy enough to follow?

 

Yep, you're correct that "Even the gurus on this forum are surprised at the difficulty I have encountered." We don't know exactly how you are hooking up all this stuff, and AFAIK nobody in here is psychic, we could keep guessing forever.

 

Yes, these forms are for supporting other users, and it may surprise you to know that over the past several years, I along with several other regular contributors, have done my damnedest to do that, not only in English, but Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese via online translation services and in the main have been successful with fixing both hardware and software issues. 

 

Hope you do eventually manage to get Native to function correctly, but right now it's beyond me.

 

[datacommando]

On 3/30/2024 at 4:14 PM, rd2rk said:

I hope it wasn't me!

 

Nope - I guess it was me - again!

 

DOH!