Helix Native Sounds Way Better Than HX Stomp

[Carlos_Danger]

I've been struggling with my HX Stomp. It just lacks high end content. I thought it was the Headrush 108 FRFR, and I have been adding EQ to every preset to compensate. 

 

Today I connected the Headrush 108 to Helix Native. Bare bones preset with just an amp and cab. It sounds great. All the high end sparkle I was lacking. I played the same preset in the HX Stomp and it just sounds dull and overly bassy. 

 

Guitar > Xsonix Xtone > Helix Native > Headrush 108

 

vs

 

Guitar > HX Stomp > Headrush 108

 

I don't get it.  Is this just how it is, or could my HX Stomp be defective. 

[Schmalle]

Check the Global EQ.

[Carlos_Danger]

Global EQ is off

[Schmalle]

On 4/20/2024 at 9:31 PM, Carlos_Danger said:

Global EQ is off

To make sure: navigate to the Global EQ, press ACTION and then the Left Knob to Reset EQ.

[silverhead]

Also check the Global Settings levels (Line/Instrument) in your HX Stomp Input and Output. In particular make sure the Output setting matches the expected input level of your speakers.

[Carlos_Danger]

The Headrush manual says line level, so I set the HX Stomp accordingly. 

 

The Helix Native is going in whatever is coming out of the Xsonic.

 

I experimented switching between line and instrument level out. No bueno.

[Schmalle]

I'd try the HX Stomp as interface for Native (replacing the Xsonic): USB IN 5/6 -> Native ->USB OUT 1/2 and listen if that sounds dull as well.

 

Make sure the Input Z in the input block is set to 1MOhm or Auto.

[Carlos_Danger]

I checked the Input Z. Made sure it was 1M Ohm to match the Xsonic. 

 

I will try the HX Stomp is the interface.

 

Honestly I have been struggling thinking the Headrush was dark. Adding EQ to every patch in the HX Stomp. Was shocked to find that the Headrush was just fine with Helix Native. The Headrush is a tad boomy, but the HX Stomp has muted highs. 

 

It is the same through the Powercab. There is something missing through MY HX Stomp. 

 

I just want to know if the Stomp is just darker. Is it darker than a full Helix?

 

Full story is, I want to use the HX Stomp as my upstairs office rig. I have a perfect end table that fits the Headrush inside perfectly. 

 

The HX Stomp is just uninspiring and dull. Been dialing in presets for years and it just isn't right. 

 

Helix Native and the full Helix I tried in GC sounds so good and makes me want to play. 

 

I think my Stomp is either defective or it is simply darker.

 

 

[Schmalle]

No - the Stomp and the Helix sound the same. Both are flat response with no inherent sound to it - certainly nothing that one would recognize as dull.

 

You could record dry guitar with both interfaces and compare. Are the levels the same? Is one duller than the other?

You could play music using both as USB interfaces and compare.

Then you should know whether it's the Stomps input or the output that contributes to dullness.

 

What cable do you use for HX -> Headrush?

[Carlos_Danger]

Thanks Schmalle. I guess my HX Stomp is defective, because it is dull compared to Helix Native. 

 

I will try your suggestions, but I have had the Stomp for a long time, and I know the settings pretty well. It simply sounds muted. 

[Schmalle]

Maybe a factory restore (globals, presets, IRs) helps? - Hold FS 2+3 while powering up the HX Stomp. Do a backup before.

 

Also you can open a support ticket and see how they can help you.

[Carlos_Danger]

I am going to check the cable from the Stomp to the HR-108. That's the only thing I didn't check yesterday. 

 

Forgot to add, the Stomp sounds great through the headphones. This was why I thought it was the HR-108. Then when I tried the Powercab, it still sounded bad. 

 

I will do a factory reset because why not. If it doesn't resolve it, I will open a repair ticket.

 

 

[Carlos_Danger]

Just did a blind listening test with THE WIFE. I just played the two and asked her what she heard and how she would describe it. She preferred the Helix Native and said it sounded like there was a blanket over the speaker when I played the HX Stomp.  

 

She would be the first to tell me I'm crazy and she doesn't hear it. 

 

It is just missing high harmonic content. 

[Schmalle]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:57 PM, Carlos_Danger said:

It is just missing high harmonic content. 

Less gain -> less overdrive -> less harmonic content.

 

Compare the input levels of both interfaces. You'll probably find that you use a good amount more on the Xsonic.

 

Use INST level for the input (Global Settings).

 

Tip: you can also put a gain block first in the path of the HX Stomp patch. 

[Carlos_Danger]

I actually turn the input level way down in Helix Native because it distorts otherwise. 

 

It also distorts with other PC based amp models like Blackstar St James. Have to turn the input on that down too. 

 

Edit:

 

I just tried everything I could. Set the input to the HX Stomp to Line, Guitar Pad ON, Put a gain block on at the front of the chain set to -12db. No success.

 

The only way to describe it is: In Helix Native on a clean preset like Double Vib, If I run my fingernail across the strings I can hear the nail. Can't hear it on the HX Stomp. This guitar has slight fret buzz, I can hear it come through on Helix Native. Can't hear it on the HX Stomp. The upper detail is just gone.

 

 

 

[silverhead]

Can you confirm that you have tried recording both a dry and wet track simultaneously using your HX Stomp as the audio interface? This was suggested earlier by @schmalle but I haven’t seen a direct response to this. Then import the preset you recorded the wet track with into Helix Native and apply it to the dry track. Compare result, adjusting levels if required.

[Carlos_Danger]

I don't know how to do all this.

[Schmalle]

Here is how you can test for defective MAIN INs on the unit:

Plug into input R and listen if it is still dull (add a +3dB gain block if you want to match the level of input L). If it is not dull but input L is then it's defective.

If both are dull:

Set Global Settings -> INs/OUTs -> Send/Return to Inst and Return Type to Return.

Set the input block to Input Return L/R by turning the lower knob clockwise one step.

Plug your guitar into Return L and test for dullness. If it is not dull but Inputs L/R are (and Input Z is at 1MOhm) both Inputs are defective.

 

Report back.

[theElevators]

If you use an audio interface to use Helix Native, it can theoretically color your sound / add drive / remove drive.  In addition to the output levels mentioned above. 

[Carlos_Danger]

On 4/21/2024 at 6:59 PM, Schmalle said:

Here is how you can test for defective MAIN INs on the unit:

Plug into input R and listen if it is still dull (add a +3dB gain block if you want to match the level of input L). If it is not dull but input L is then it's defective.

If both are dull:

Set Global Settings -> INs/OUTs -> Send/Return to Inst and Return Type to Return.

Set the input block to Input Return L/R by turning the lower knob clockwise one step.

Plug your guitar into Return L and test for dullness. If it is not dull but Inputs L/R are (and Input Z is at 1MOhm) both Inputs are defective.

 

Report back.

 

Will report back after I try this.

[Carlos_Danger]

Update:

 

Sorry to have disappeared. My daily driver laptop died. I had to replace it and attend some meetings and get some work done. 

 

After looking at this from every angle, I decided perhaps my problem wasn't the HX Stomp, or the Headrush 108. I figured the Headrush was simply oversized for this room, and decided to try something different. 

 

I got some small monitors; Presonus Eris 3.5. Problem solved.  Through these, I get all the high end content I expect and the amp models sound like they should. 

 

I don't know the theory behind all this, but the Headrush really wanted to be louder. 

 

The HX Stomp still pushes more bass than Helix Native through Xsonic Interface into the same speakers, but is isn't causing the drowning effect through the Presonus monitors like I was having with the Headrush. I can dial that out now. 

 

So maybe it was a perfect storm of the Headrush only opening up at a volume I didn't want in this room.  

 

All I can say is I am pretty damn happy now. 

[Schmalle]

Thanks for the follow up.

 

Part of successful use of stage monitors is to find the right place: the listening angle, distance to you, distance to walls, placement on the floor vs on a stand or chair. All of those things have an impact. Also the room reflections, how much stuff is in the room and your position in it matter.

 

Glad you found a happy place - rock on!

[Carlos_Danger]

Follow up....

 

Headrush tweeter is not working. 

 

On a hunch, I opened the grill of my Headrush 108 and played and listened to the speakers. The tweeter is not working. 

 

It must have been intermittent at one point because I remember one day the rig sounded amazing and the next day it was trash. 

 

One day I tested the Headrush against the Powercab to see if the Headrush was broken. They sounded the same until i accidentally put switched the powercab from FR to a speaker model. It sounded great. 

 

Mulling this over, I realized the Powercab speaker model included the tweeter. Looked into tweeter issues with the Headrush and found that mine is broken.

 

Answering the obvious, why am I using the Headrush when I have a Powercab?  I have a small office and apiece of furniture that perfectly fits the Headrush and the HX Stomp. I spend most of my time in here and wanted a compact solution. The Powercab was too big for the room.