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Newb Q: Factory presets amp+cab vs amp only...


mtnman82
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Newb question: I'm looking to emulate my Boogie MkIV.  And I found in the Factory 1 folder, patches 11A-Cali IV Rhythm1, 11B-Cali IV Rhythm2, 11C-Cali IV Lead...

 

11A & 11B use Amp+Cab.  11C uses Amp only.

 

From what I gather from the reading/videos I've done, if I'm going thru the PA I should be using Amp+Cab?  And if I'm going thru an amp like one of the Seymour Duncan SS amps into a cab I should be using Amp only?

 

If I'm going into return of a tube amp (*not* 4CM, out of Helix straight into effects return) I would use Amp only?

 

So if I'm running thru PA only, I should be changing 11C to Amp+Cab?

 

I'm looking to set up these three channels on FS8, FS9, FS10,  Then add some effects on stomp switches, different effects on the different clean/crunch/lead channels.  Looking to run thru PA/monitors only, but there will be occasions when I will not be going thru a PA and running a SS power amp thru a 1x12 or 2x12 cab.

 

Thank you in advance :) 

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In theory, 'amp + cab' in to a PA/FRFR cab. 'Amp only' in to an amp + cab.

 

In the real world, do whatever sounds best. Experiment - within the bounds of the unit, you can't break anything. Worst case, it'll sound like sh*t, but as long as you know why, it's all good. It's the best way to find out what works and hat doesn't.

 

PS: My real world rig for the last 30 years involved using a Mesa Triaxis. The Mk IV models get me exactly the same sounds, so if you don't get your results straight away by just replicating the same 'numbers' in the Helix, keep working away at it - you will get there.

In terms of having 'a PA setup and an amp setup', if it were me I'd write my presets and then setup Snapshots in each one with the cab turned off, for the occasions when you go through the amp and speaker.

Alternatively, and perhaps a more practical way would be to write your presets with a send block between the amp and cab blocks, then use the main Helix output when you use a PA, and a send output when you use an amp - this way, you only have to remember where to plug the cable depending on which monitoring system you're using, and you could actually use an amp and PA at the same time if the occasion arose.

 

Don't be afraid to come back with questions if any of this doesn't make sense.

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Understand the difference between PRESETS and SNAPSHOTS.

A preset is a complete configuration which INCLUDES snapshots.

11A-11B-11C are PRESETS. Each one contains a number of SNAPSHOTS - 3 on HXS, 4 on HXSXL and 8 on the full sized Helix units.

 

A snapshot is a VARIATION of a preset. Only the details/block settings (on/off)/block parameters are different.

When you load a preset there is a momentary audio drop as the old preset is unloaded and the new preset loads.

Snapshots load INSTANTLY.

To change routings you only need to create a snapshot with those routings active.

 

RTM to better understand how this all works.

 

 

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Thank you for the reply somebody, that's the confirmation I was looking for.  Haven't had a chance to run thru the PA yet, been working with headphones...

 

A little more staring at the diagram for 11C, I see they use amp only but then instantiate dual 4x12 cabs so the factory preset does use a cab.

 

Still trying to learn the ropes of footswitches.  I want to keep it simple - bottom row to switch between amp channels (clean/crunch/lead) and top row to turn on/off effects.  I think my Helix is set for stomp mode?  I have to hit the bank button to see the amp channels and when I select a channel the displays turn to the stomp/snapshot selections.  I'd like to keep the amp channels displayed on FS8~FS11 and effects displayed on FSFS2~FS5.

 

I'm old school simple.  I want to be able to switch between clean/crunch channels for rhythm and then select lead channel for solo and then back to clean/crunch after solo (FSFS9~FS11). When I select the channel, I want the effects I've setup for that channel available to turn on/off (top FS2~FS5).  Know there's a lot of tricky stuff t be set up with stomp/snapshot modes and may eventually get there, but would like to start out simple...

 

 

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Thank you rd2rk - we were typing at the same time.  Still going thru the manual, your comments help to understand.

 

So I cannot change from Cali IV Rhythm 1 to Cali IV Lead (presets) without a momentary dropout?  Seems like this would be a fundamental issue.  How do you guys go from a clean channel for verses to a lead channel for solo then back to clean again?  Using a stomp box for distortion seems lame if I want the Mark IV lead creaminess for solo's?

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You can eliminate the dropout by giving up one Path in each preset. You’re dedicating half the DSP capacity of Helix to support this feature. See Global Settings -> Preferences-> Preset Spillover.

 

I use Snapshots to help me go from clean to lead tones. You can have a dual path preset that contains two different amps, and have one on and the other off in different Snapshots.

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On 10/23/2024 at 9:55 AM, mtnman82 said:

Thank you rd2rk - we were typing at the same time.  Still going thru the manual, your comments help to understand.

 

So I cannot change from Cali IV Rhythm 1 to Cali IV Lead (presets) without a momentary dropout?  Seems like this would be a fundamental issue.  How do you guys go from a clean channel for verses to a lead channel for solo then back to clean again?  Using a stomp box for distortion seems lame if I want the Mark IV lead creaminess for solo's?


Put two amps (clean and lead) in the signal path.

Set up two snapshots. Save the CLEAN snapshot with the clean amp active and the lead amp disabled. Save the LEAD snapshot with the clean amp disabled and the lead amp active. You can also place the amps (amp only, no cab, both amps active) in a split path with an A/B split and assign the split  to snapshots - CLEAN snapshot = Path A with the clean amp, LEAD snapshot = Path B with the lead amp. Then place a CAB after the MIX Block. This can conserve DSP over using two amp+cab blocks.

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On 10/23/2024 at 4:55 PM, mtnman82 said:

Thank you rd2rk - we were typing at the same time.  Still going thru the manual, your comments help to understand.

 

So I cannot change from Cali IV Rhythm 1 to Cali IV Lead (presets) without a momentary dropout?  Seems like this would be a fundamental issue.  How do you guys go from a clean channel for verses to a lead channel for solo then back to clean again?  Using a stomp box for distortion seems lame if I want the Mark IV lead creaminess for solo's?

Saw this and replied straight away, so apologies if it was mentioned in other posts.

In my case, as I mentioned earlier I'm trying to replicate my Triaxis-based setup, I have the MkIV Rhythm model and the MkIV Lead model in the same preset.

What I've done is employ a split A/B block and put them on parallel paths. I have Snapshots setup that are set to 'direct' the signal down either Path A or Path B, depending on the sound I want.

If your preference is to have it set up like a traditional stompbox pedal board, you could employ one footswitch to simultaneously switch one amp model off and switch the other on, as if you were channel switching on a conventional amp. Whether it would be seamless, I don't know, as I haven't tried it, but the snapshot method is seamless. Even if it isn't I would doubt the transition would be any slower than switching channels on an amp... c'mon, we're both oldies (I'm 57), we're used to dealing with it. ;)

The reason I use snapshots is because I'm used to having a MIDI floor unit switch my amp and effect on one press of a footswitch, which the snapshot mode allows me to do.

 

You have lots of options and it's almost certain it can be set up to do exactly what you want it to do. Take time to learn it. It's overwhelming at first, but you soon find it's not as complicated as you thought.

There are plenty of willing helpers here, for when you get stuck.

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Yes, it is overwhelming and you will loose a lot of sleep!  However, if you are tone nerd like me, then you will reap great rewards!!!!

 

Depending on which amp I am using and how clean I want the clean sound, I will either use one or two amps.  For the 2 amp setup, I have a Footswitch(FS) that will turn one amp on and one amp off.  For my tones, I have found that stacking distortion pedals and having a FS to change the amp settings works best for me.  I normally use the Monitoar first then the Teamah (sorry about the spelling).  I have my gains set to 1.0 and 3.0 on the different dist stomps.  I don't play Metal, but I can get all the drive I need from this setup.  

 

You can use snapshots and stomps and combine them using the Command Center window.  Lots of different variations to get you what you need!  Have fun!

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