Extra Expression Pedal - what do you program it to do?

[ColonelForbin]

I am going to snag a used Tarcase hard case for my HD500 (whatever happened to Tarcase??) from a guy on Craiglist next week, and I want to finally add the extra expression pedal to my HD500 rig. It has a slot built into the case to place an extra EXP pedal to the right of the HD, so I figured sure! Sounds like a plan..

 

I am going with the Line6 specific Mission Engineering pedal - I used the L6 EX1 on my X3Live and while it did work fine, it just didn't feel all that great, in terms of the sweep, the feel, and how much weight I felt I could lean into it with. For the $50, it's great, does what it should -- I am just looking to put something a littler nicer together, and just found the MissionEngineering L6 pedal.
 

"The Mission EP1-L6 is a high quality, all metal, vintage style expression pedal that is the perfect complement to your Line 6 amps and effects. Great for wah, whammy and many other effects, the EP1-L6 is designed to work out of the box with any of the Line 6 expression pedal compatible products such as the Pod HD, and the stomp box modelers."

 

For the price ($130 at Sweetwater) it sure better be nicer than the L6 plastic version! lol :)

 

Anyway, what should I program it to do>? And if I go with the standard volume and wah configuration, how do you all go about programming the HD500 to switch the wah on and off? I have utterly ignored this nice extra feature for the entire time I've had my HD500.

 

I know an extra expression pedal can literally control any parameter - delay repeats, reverb mix, drive gain, whatever. For starters, what's the best way to set the onboard pedal and the extra pedal up to do volume and wah? Do you leave the onboard pedal as the volume and make one of the FS switches toggle the wah on and off? I suppose that does leave the option of setting the second expression pedal into a "cocked wah" position, and toggling it in and out as an effect, while still having control over the volume pedal.

 

And, in terms of the volume pedal programming - do you set the EXP2 to control the amp volume parameter, or do you add an effects block volume pedal?

 

And last question, where do you place the volume pedal in the signal chain - pre amp, or post? I would guess it should go before the delay and reverbs.

 

Cheers!

[JeffersteinVS]

you still only get exp1 and exp2 as options so all i really could do with mine that was useful was use the expansion pedal as volume , use the built in as a wah and activate that wah with the toe switch on the hd500 built in pedal. I wanted to program the exp pedal to control delay time but it doesnt act as a third pedal

[Palico]

And last question, where do you place the volume pedal in the signal chain - pre amp, or post? I would guess it should go before the delay and reverbs.

 

This depends on how you want the volume to act. If you put in pre amp (traditional) placment, it will act like the volume on the guitar and clean up the signal as volume is rolled down.If you put it in a post postion it will act more like master volume control and just reduce the overall volume without affecting the tone (Distorted sound)

[ColonelForbin]

Yeah, that's interesting in terms of that you can only use 2 EXP assignments - though it makes sense. I guess my take on it, I don't really like using the toe switch on the built-in EXP pedal, it works fine, but it also feels awkward and is never smooth since the sweep requires pushing the pedal all the way to the toe, which always pushes the highest frequency sweep just before toggling off.

 

Is it possible to define the outboard EXP as wah and keep the onboard as volume pedal only? I would like to be able to use one of the two as a wah, toggle it on/off with an FS switch, and be able to also still use the volume pedal while the wah is activated. Though I guess making the outboard pedal the volume pedal would prevent any accidental volume drops when I accidentally kick the EXP pedal when I go to the tap tempo or click a footswitch on the far right side of the board. I guess that's another trial and error type setup choice! I am firmly leaning toward the 8 FS control setup anyway, and even if I assign all the onboard FX to footswitches, I am still left with one un-assigned, so that could be the wah on/off.

 

I guess I will add that to the list of gear work I have scheduled for this weekend!

 

Acoustic jam on Friday after work, maybe test drive the replacement M20d mixer, our drummer is going to bring his cajon over. I've got this awesome old Japanese Fender acoustic guitar that is from the late '70's. I paid $20 for it at a flea market and spent around $150 at Third Coast getting the bridge repaired and the thing set up. It has a "zero fret" between the nut and the first fret, but no pickups or anything.

 

Then, work on Saturday will be painful, but I am done at 4. Saturday night and all day Sunday will be building my pedalboard for my Keeley gear, rigging up the HD500, the DT, the L2t's, the M20d, and the JTV, and figuring out what works, what doesn't and which of my last twenty crazy rig ideas will actually create good tones.

 

I see what you mean about volume pre or post amp - like a clean boost before the amp drives the tubes harder, in the effects loop just increases the over all volume, for a solo boost type effect. I am actually going to do both of those things with drive pedals. I have two drive pedals that are going to be in the HD500 effects loop in the pre-amp model position, and a chorus pedal and clean boost pedal in the DT25 effects loop (which I have confirmed does work when using L6Link)

 

Will likely put the volume control as an amp parameter - but is there an actual difference between controlling the amp volume with EXP-2 vs using an actual volume pedal in the same type of "post amp" slot? HD500 edit is a bit confusing, it won't let me assign the EXP-2 in a patch to control amp volume and have it actually "Stick". Will need to test that with the gear plugged in. Would be nice to save an effects block if it can be controlled that way - as an amp volume parameter, not an effects block, but I dunno, sometimes things are quirky!

[radatats]

The wah will default to Exp 1, the onboard pedal and volume to Exp 2 the outboard pedal.  You could change it if you want but I find it works good that way.  I like to set my wah as a Bad Horsie type by assigning the position and mix to Exp 1 (mix 21 > 62).  You can still use a FS if you want but you don't need one this way.

 

I don't always use volume or wah and sometimes like to assign multiple parameters to the pedal(s) to morph between completely different tones.  You can assign up to 50 separate parameters to each controller so that allows for a huge change with each pedal and also with the volume or tone knobs on your JTV.  You don't need to change patches to go from clean to crunch to lead, you can do it with just the pedal or knob on your JTV.

 

I am not so sure about putting the volume pedal in front of the amp to just clean up the tone, I find it just lowers volume in general.  It will let your delays and reverb tails continue though whereas if you put it last I think it cuts them out...

[ColonelForbin]

You can assign up to 50 separate parameters to each controller so that allows for a huge change with each pedal and also with the volume or tone knobs on your JTV. 

 

Yeah, now there ya go! That's some cool thinking. I have definitely thought about starting to program the JTV control knobs to do things, I like that idea alot.

 

So, you can do something where you assign multiple effects controllers to EXP-2, more than just the volume pedal, and change that from patch to patch - I suppose that also applies for the wah; so if you don't want a wah pedal, you could control the vowel of the obi-wah, or the 'q' of the q-tron effect, or some other parameter. Digging it actually - very cool ideas..

 

For that matter, I could buy a volume pedal if I really want to, and just program EXP-1 and EXP-2 to run other parameters.

 

I like the idea of attenuating the sweep and mix range of the wah, I will have to mess with that some more.

[radatats]

Yeah, now there ya go! That's some cool thinking. I have definitely thought about starting to program the JTV control knobs to do things, I like that idea alot.

 

So, you can do something where you assign multiple effects controllers to EXP-2, more than just the volume pedal, and change that from patch to patch - I suppose that also applies for the wah; so if you don't want a wah pedal, you could control the vowel of the obi-wah, or the 'q' of the q-tron effect, or some other parameter. Digging it actually - very cool ideas..

 

For that matter, I could buy a volume pedal if I really want to, and just program EXP-1 and EXP-2 to run other parameters.

 

I like the idea of attenuating the sweep and mix range of the wah, I will have to mess with that some more.

 

Yes!  for example you can assign amp drive, tone stack, channel volume, all to the same pedal to change together at the same time as chorus depth and mix, delay times and mix, compressor levels, reverb parameters, whatever, so effectively you have a COMPLETELY different tone or patch just by rocking the pedal or turning the knob on your JTV...

 

a very underused feature in my estimation...

[ColonelForbin]

Yeah, I think it's about surfing the line between "planning" or at least anticipating what you will want to do, vs "controlled chaos".

 

By that, two extremes would be

 

anticipating or planning: patch #3 is for the second verse of a specific song, that I step on at exactly 2:05 into the song.

 

controlled chaos: I am gonna step on the overdrive and envelope filter while adjusting the tap delay and ramp of the phaser, as the urge strikes.

 

Both have merits, and both can be accommodated to a certain extent with the HD500, both in programming, in FS selection, and in use of external pedals.

 

For example, you could have a group of effects be they external or effects blocks, that you want on or off all at once - same thing to a certain extent can be achieved by use of gear like Voodoo Labs ground control, with pedal switching, etc.

 

I like the sort of think about it logically, give myself the freedom to control the effects on the fly - though I like the idea of anticipating what I might like to do at any given point  - like programming the HD500 to control multiple effects with a single FS or with an expression pedal.

 

I like to think about it to a certain extent, and then "in the moment" be able to do some cool things on the fly. So it's a constant back and forth, in terms of how much I want to think it out in advance, vs how much I just spend time getting individual effects in the correct sequence, and the correct volumes - so in most any combination of on/off, they all "sound good". I realize, that turning on *everything* at once is likely to be a friggin' mess.

[ColonelForbin]

effectively you have a COMPLETELY different tone or patch just by rocking the pedal or turning the knob on your JTV...

 

a very underused feature in my estimation...

 

Underestimated indeed! I think especially setting up the tone and/or volume knobs on the JTV is a frontier that I will most likely explore ASAP - I haven't tried to do that yet, and I really should.

 

If I recall correctly, with those custom guitars that Jerry Garcia used a bit later on, he had some fx loops built into the guitar, something like being able to control the parameters from knobs on the guitar... Surprisingly similar concept to how the JTV works!

 

Doug Irwin made some masterpiece instruments for Jerry; he really was way ahead of his time. The irony, that Jim Irsay,  owner and CEO of the Indianapolis Colts ends up buying one of them at auction for something like $957,500! He bought "Tiger", the guitar last played live by Jerry, on July 9th, 1995 at Soldier Field in Chicago..

[smrybacki]

Can you "morph" between amps in a dual amp setup I wonder?

[radatats]

Can you "morph" between amps in a dual amp setup I wonder?

Absolutely, but I find it isn't that great.  I have assigned both channel volumes to one expression pedal so as one goes down the other goes up but in the middle they are both at 50% and that is noticably quieter than either by themselves.  Better to use a FS to turn one off and the other on.  Maybe there is another way to do it but I haven't found it yet...

[smrybacki]

Absolutely, but I find it isn't that great.  I have assigned both channel volumes to one expression pedal so as one goes down the other goes up but in the middle they are both at 50% and that is noticably quieter than either by themselves.  Better to use a FS to turn one off and the other on.  Maybe there is another way to do it but I haven't found it yet...

Thanks friend...I'll have to experiment with that later tonight :)

[ricstudioc]

Can you "morph" between amps in a dual amp setup I wonder?

i'm certainly a newb with this thing, but seems simple enough - assign both amps channel vols to the pedal w/inverse values.  0 to 100% on one, 100 to 0% on the other.  (i assume here such an inverted assignment is possible).

 

edit - I notice rad got in ahead of me, interesting point/problem.  Suppose it would be asking a bit much for non-linear curves on the pedals.....?

[ColonelForbin]

i'm certainly a newb with this thing, but seems simple enough - assign both amps channel vols to the pedal w/inverse values.  0 to 100% on one, 100 to 0% on the other.  (i assume here such an inverted assignment is possible).

 

edit - I notice rad got in ahead of me, interesting point/problem.  Suppose it would be asking a bit much for non-linear curves on the pedals.....?

 

Yeah, I am pretty pysched to start working with the idea of "morphing" tonal banks of multiple items.

 

Though I can see where using the expression pedals to morph between two amp models could lead to some minor volume drops if the change isn't done quickly. I was just wondering about that, in terms of using DT amps, since the DT will only use the amp A typology and power settings, I was thinking it would be interesting to set up the dual amp pathway with a common similar typology and power settings, then vary the preamp tonal settings. more drive, treble, etc.

 

I had the same thought about non linear fades!

[ColonelForbin]

And for what it's worth that Mission Engineering 'line 6' expression pedal feels like a solid piece of gear, will get to test it out tonight. It's heavy! And it's made in the USA. :)

[JamnThang]

I just bought a new POD HD PRO-X rack unit (coming UPS Monday) and a new FBV3 Footcontroller (arrived today). I'm glad I've found and read these comments first so I'll be up and running them together properly ASAP.

 

I plan to Update Firmware and software versions before doing anything else to obtain best potential for success, learning from what I've read here. I'm considering buying a Mission Engineering EP-1 L6, the regular cord model expression pedal designed for use with FBV Shortboards, and dedicating Exp 1 and Exp 2 as Wah and Volume pedals to use full time.

 

Can anyone tell us if it's possible to set Exp 2 as the WAH full-time? I have understood that Exp 2 defaults to VOLUME PEDAL.

 

I prefer the heavy Crybaby vibe and design of the Mission pedals for my Wah, and want to set it to Exp 2 globally, and simply use the FBV3 onboard pedal (Exp 1) for Volume on every preset. Besides, I don't like how difficult it is to operate the toe switch to change from volume to wah. It is very tough to push without standing with my full weight upon that toe switch! JamnThang

 

P.S. Please share about pedal assignment experience for achieving what I've described.

[JamnThang]

hurghanico, thank you very much for this swift, helpful response to my inquires about assigning 1st and 2nd expression pedals. I'm particularly glad I don't need to rely upon the toe switch any longer. And, since I really like the Mission Engineering EX1 L6 pedal for how much it resembles a Dunlop Crybaby Wah, and it's designed to work with most all the Line 6 expression outputs, I plan to use it in whichever exp pedal outpit I use for wah. I hope that I can get my FBV3 footboard's onboard pedal to default to volume, or easily obtain that result with it somehow, since I only rarely ever use a volume pedal. Those are my plans and hopes for best configuring my new FBV3 with my new POD HD PRO-X.

 

Thanks again for your considerable help, hurghanico. JamnThang

[JamnThang]

I actually just sold my POD HD500X, and the FBV Shortboard Mk2 I used with it, to upgrade to the HD PRO X and FBV Mk3, primarily because I prefer having the two components: like the HD Desktop I had was well within reach like my amp; while the controller remains at my feet. That's all I didn't like about the 500X.

 

As for expression pedals, I feel certain I can use the pedals as you've described, fortunately. Thanks again.

[JTSC777]

I program it to control pedal gains on my M13. I found it useless with my HD500

[FlyingSquirrel]

Absolutely, but I find it isn't that great.  I have assigned both channel volumes to one expression pedal so as one goes down the other goes up but in the middle they are both at 50% and that is noticably quieter than either by themselves.  Better to use a FS to turn one off and the other on.  Maybe there is another way to do it but I haven't found it yet...

 

Now, if you could adjust the taper of the pedal's movement between these two extremes, it would be quite useful.  That middle position could yield some useful blended tones if the level remained at a useful level.  Something akin to EMG's ABC control: http://www.emgpickups.com/accessories/bass-accessories/summing/abc.html#info 

[JamnThang]

As it turns out, I hated my POD HD Pro-X with my new FBV3 (which really already like, particularly for how easily the toe switch works!).

 

I've already replaced that POD HD Pro-X with a new Spider V240 with Performance Pack (had to return original FBV3 to buy it again in the Performance Pack).

 

Pack includes:

1.) Spider V240 stereo with 2x12 and horns (very cool eye sounds for all guitars);

2.) FBV3 Footcontroller with much sturdier buttons and loop control and immediate, quiet channel changes;

3.) Relay G10T transmitter, since the V240 has built-in Wireless Relay Receiver...waaay cool, and long batter life, with easy, fast charge in Guitar Input every few days.

 

I bought the fitted amp cover for $35 dollars with the Performance Pack.

 

ANYWAY, now I've loaded the Spider V240 Remote Android App to bachup, edit, save and share my presets with a simple USP cable connection between amp and Android (available with IOS, as well).

 

I'm pleased with the preponderance of very good, usable factory presets in 32 banks of 4, named for songs, artists, FX amps and sounds... this bundle is all new generation, and very compatible. Also ALL for just under $800, discounted by AMS, and on a free 8-Pay plan. My Jeff Beck Strat is made for this rig with its Hot Output Noiseless, dual coil ceramic pockups... technically very hum cancelling, with very adjustable tonality on a straightforward 5-way blade.