litesnsirens

Thanks, that makes sense. So it would make sense for bassforlife2013 to use the FBS on the M20d to tame feedback as opposed to even fumbling with the paraEQ. I mean the FBS on this board goes in with the precision of a surgeon and cuts out just the feedback. I've never used anything better for getting rid of feedback, it leaves your sound virtually unaffected. It's one of the nicest things about owning an M20d. I don't think you could do it as well with paraEQ. Certainly not with GEQ. Using the FBS will leave the paraEQ free to shape the sound of your speakers.

I agree with this Don, but I have another question... which you have partially answered. This thread got me wondering about the 1/3 graphic eq's and having used them in the past I have found that using them to notch out feedback has been kind of like using a meat cleaver to do surgery instead of a scalpel. So the question is this, while I understand the filters are every 1/3 octave, what is the shape of each of the filters, are they bell, shelf that stops abruptly at the next filter? Just curious... I don't need to know now that I have the M20d it's just magic... And I guess another question, I have stagesource speakers so this isn't for me but if a mic is feeding back through the monitors, even if they aren't stagesource monitors wouldn't the FBS notch that frequency out? I mean the mic is still the source right? regardless of what speaker is feeding back into it...

To be honest, I didn't even think about how much draw I was going to pull. It was just so weird to be in a room where there so few electrical outlets. I mean it's this really big room and I had to go into a closet behind the stage to find a single outlet. But to be fair it held up. I'll have to have a closer look at my Monster Power Strip, maybe it's one of those that is 20A. It cost me $200 and it always gives me nice clean power but I have never really looked at what any of the ratings are. I just assumed they were all standard 15A.

I did a sound gig a little over a week ago. Everything on the stage was run off a single outlet. Not necessarily my preference but more of a necessity based on the room. I had my Monster power conditioning power strip plugged into one outlet of the wall. From there, with a series of more power strips and extension cords there was the following; 2 L3s 2 L3t 3 L2t 1 Bose L1 model II 1 Traynor keyboard amp 2 keyboards 1 Fender Mustang amp 1 ampeg bass amp 1 Fender Floor effects pedal 2 Yorkville Led lighting modules (4 LED pars total). Ran the whole night without a hitch...I'm not sure what the total draw would be on this but it worked out.

Thanks silverhead, I'll try the cable again. I had unplugged and plugged if back in but only on the offending speaker. The flawed connection could have been at the sending speaker. Like I said brand new cable.

Hey, you're entitled to your opinions but is this based on the SD card slot? You were saying that the card wouldn't stay seated in the slot, is that right? That just sounds like the latch isn't catching so the spring keeps pushing it back up. I mean that's a bugger but a little tiny latch malunctioning is hardly something to base the entire workings of the M20d on. Personally I don't understand why they bother with the latch thing. Even when the SD card is seated properly you can pull it right out without pushing down on the spring. My MacBook Pro doesn't have any kind of spring mechanism for the SD card slot. You slide it into place and then just pull it out, no muss no fuss. Less chance of something like this happening.

I did a little more trouble-shooting today. I got thinking about the problem and recalling that a blown speaker just isn't capable of having any decent sound at all. So I figured it most be something else. I turned on only that speaker and then plugged into the mixer in the side and played a few things through that. Perfect sound... none of the crackling sound. So having determined that there was nothing wrong with the speaker I figured it must be the cable. Sure enough it was. It's a brand new cable so I had a hard time thinking of it first. But for anyone who is all hooked up via the Line 6 Link. If you get some crackling in a speaker, replace the cable that is feeding that speaker. Just a heads up. It's a quick easy fix... if you know what it is !!!

I have a pair of L3t's and an L3s (Also a pair or L2t's and a M20d). I have been using this system for about a month and I love it. I just set up the L3t's, L3s and M20d back up in my basement and noticed I am getting kind of a crackling noise from one of the L3t's. It's not as farty sounding as if there is blown speaker (but I don't know) it's a kind of crackling sound that lingers a bit when certain lower frequencies are played through it. Otherwise it's still sounds pretty good. It's past 30 days since I bought it so Long and McQuade says I'll have to send it in for service. I was just wondering if there is anything else I can check in the meantime. Could it be the result of a bad cable over the L6 link?

no problem. You'll then just have to cut down some speaker pole to the size you want. I cut some really short ones. But I may cut a couple of longet pieces in case I just stack the L3t right on top of the L3s.

@djmathis, I just wanted to report back with a bit of an update. I'm now wishing I had never bought the Samsung wifi dongle. While it works it is a little sketchy. I decided to invest $40 in the apple wifi to ethernet adaptor. I already have an apple time capsule which is basically an airport extreme with a hard drive as well as an airport express which is a much more portable wifi router which I use just to extend the wifi range in my house since it just plugs into a wall socket and there are no other cables attached to it, I figure it could do double duty with the M20d. First test with this setup made me very happy that I spent the $40. This is far quicker and far more reliable in making a connection between the M20d and my iPad mini. I sometimes wait 20 minutes with the samsung dongle to get a connection. It seems once I get it I can make subsequent connections more quickly, but this system is instant. Line 6 reccomends this and I have to agree the best way to go.

I got both items from Long and McQuade so I am giving you the info from the Long and McQuade website. The pole mount adaptors are; Yorkville Sound Speaker Stand External Mount SKS-ADAPT Price: $6.99 The lights are; Yorkville Sound LP Series Dimmer Bar w/2 LED Heads LP-LED2 Price: $855.00

Hmm, that's not my experience at all. The recordings I've done have worked out perfectly. I will agree though there does seem to be a ton of dynamic range available on the M20d. I've yet to find a source I can't just plug right into the board and get great results.

The only way I could see that happening would be if you set the auto trim just hammering on your instrument (which is a bit of a twist on the recommendation) and then play much quieter when it's time to play. In this case you would likely end up cranking the channel level which would cause what you are experiencing. I think if you are in setup mode you can see both the trim level in red and the channel level in green. I would, during sound check, put it in setup mode with everyone playing and despite the fact that you've used the auto-trim feature, double check that you are getting good trim levels and good channel levels. If your trim levels are barely moving and channel is killing, make some adjustments by bringing up the trim and lowering the channel level.

Oh ya, that happened when we were experimenting with my guitar players HD500, it would sound off, so we would double check and put everything in the proper modes and then it would sound great. As soon as we changed patches the HD500 would change all the settings again and it would sound weird again. Of course that was when we were hooked up via Line 6 Link. If I'm not mistaken there is a firmware update for the HD500 that gives you a little more control over how it interacts with the stagesource speakers. But my buddy's HD500 wasn't updated when we were messing around. Still the sound was so impressive that he went right out and bought an L2t. We figured we would just run into the board and use it as a monitor and he could take his time and work out the details of the other ways of using it on his own.

Well I'm not using an HD500 anymore, only the GR-55 but the principle is the same, amp/cab/mic modelling and speakers in reference/PA mode. Sound is amazing. My other guitar player is using HD500, same thing. If you want to disable the speaker modelling you can put the speaker in electric guitar mode. Messed with this with the HD500, also sounded amazing.

There are 4 different channels for monitor mixes, so no matter how you slice it, you can have 4 different monitor mixes. That said two different monitors can share the same mix, so you could have a bunch of monitors on the Line 6 link and assign each of them to A, B, C or D. I haven't tried it but I think that if you plugged standard power amps/monitors into the 4 monitor outs, if you then assigned one on the Line 6 Link to Channel A for example it would share the same mix as the monitor that is plugged into Channel A in the monitor out. This shouldn't be much of a problem though, you should be able to set up some monitor mixes that will be good for more than one musician and have them share that mix. How many years did we go where all musicians shared one monitor mix? In some ways it's better, I personally find it more difficult to play dynamically against the rest of the band if I'm not hearing what they are hearing. It's harder to sing harmony if your mix has mostly your voice and a bit of the other singers etc. I still sometimes do individual mixes but the alterations from one mix to the other are very subtle. Which leads back to the fact that you should be able to do a really decent stage mix with 4 monitor mixes driving x number of monitors. If you're throwing up 6 to 8 monitors on the stage, unless the stage is gigantic you're going to be getting cross-bleed anyway. I hope this helps a little bit..

I think you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot here regarding the feed to the soundman. With either L3t or DT25, if you are asking him to stick a mic in front of your amp, you'll have even less control. You'll have control of stage volume and sound but out front the EQ of your guitar could be way different and he still has control of your FOH levels. I just go direct to the board (M20d) and then feed myself my guitar tone back in the monitor so I haven't messed with the other connection possibilities. But I think you should be able to run your guitar and keyboards into the L3t and then a direct out to the board. Even run another line back to the direct in to monitor your vocals through the L3t as well. This way the tonal characteristics of the mic and the placement of the mic won't affect the tone of your guitar or keyboard. I think HD500 sounds amazing through L3t and L2t, do does my GR55. I don't notice any attack, or dynamic difference between this and a tube based guitar rig... I would say experiment with how to get the sound to the board. Even if you kept the DT25 I would use the direct out on the back as opposed to a mic. Since your using modelling anyway it will always be a more faithful representation of your tone out front. But maybe it is redundant.. Maybe you can get a second L3t and run a stereo stage rig or some other configuration. It would certainly give you a ton of options. One for back line one for monitor. Use as a small portable PA for other projects...

Yes, I'm in Canada... and very glad you guys spent the time developing this system, it's an absolute pleasure to use. I have a bit of an understanding of the concept of the coupling (probably just enough to be dangerous), but I can't imagine I would entertain that idea with these speakers, not for what I do anyway. These speakers are so well balanced and interact so well together, I wouldn't want to mess with that. If I stacked them it might just mean that I have to turn down the bass to compensate.

Oh sheesh, how did I miss that... thanks...

To this end, what is the overall range on the trim, it seems way beyond most mixers unless it's just the digital setup that makes is seem so. Not to detract from the issues that iamspg is having, so far it seems I can plug anything into this mixer, passive, active and it can handle it all. I'm really curious also to know what is going on with Iamspg's rig. From the experience I've had with this mixer so far, I'm unable to imagine what's going on there. It would be good to know if there is something to avoid.

Thanks Don, let me say it's great having you paying the kind of close attention to these threads that you are. Your expertise and intimate knowledge of the product is very helpful, as this PA system is quite innovative and a new way of approaching sound for a lot of us. I totally agree with your comments on the StageScape mixer, sound check for the band Saturday night was about 10 minutes. Other than the fact that I started out too loud the sound was great all night. I had to make some minor adjustments here and there as there were a number of guest players who got up with the band to do some tunes. I was going to mic all the drums but ended up just using a mic on the kick and a couple of overhead condensors and the drums sound was fantastic. I don't think I will ever go back to doing more than that. It's quick, simple and the M20d makes it easy. I also agree, 12:00 detent on the speakers. There's plenty of power there. Thanks also for the math on the effect of the second L3s. I understand a bit of that stuff and understand just by the nature of adding a second one I would be doubling the power and getting at least another 3db but I thought it would be only in the range up to 100hz. It seemed the overall level was louder across the whole frequency spectrum. I wouldn't be gaining much in the way of coupling as I didn't have them stacked on top of each other. I had one on each side of the stage, so 16' apart. Here is a picture of the stage set up, you can see my cool light rig from the other thread as well. I would totally recommend this PA to anyone. I kind of felt like a hero for getting such a great sound on Saturday night both out front and monitor mix, but I have to give the credit to the dream stage system...

Hi yes, I have all the individual speakers at the 12:00 detent volume level. I'm using the Samsung WIS12ABGN, I don't think they make the WIS10ABGN anymore which is what Line recommends. If I was to do it over I would go with the other Line 6 recommendation of using an apple USB to Ethernet adaptor and then into an actual wifi router. Just so you get a nice strong signal. My USB wifi stick works but it can be a little dodgy getting connected. It took a long time at first at the gig Saturday, but once I got it it was good all night.,,

I haven't really had this system for that long but I'm loving it so far. It's a little heavier and more work than the Bose was to cart around but it's nice to finally have the problem of too much power. Friday night I played one of my favourite bars with my main band, I used a single L3s with my two L3t's and 3 L2t's for monitors. I had all the channels bouncing around 0db mark and the main volume at about - 5 db. It was a good mix and plenty loud for that bar. I pumped out some canned music between sets and it was just thumping with the single L3s. Saturday night I had a gig doing sound for another band, it was in a hotel conference room and the room was probably 3 times the size of the bar I played the night before. I rented a second L3s just because I knew the room was going to be a lot bigger and I wanted to make sure I had it covered. Now here is the strange thing, I had the channels running about the same all dancing around 0db. I figured I would have the mains up higher than at the bar just because room was so much bigger. So I started out with the mains at about 0db. It was crazy loud, I ended up dialling it back bit by bit, hovered around - 5db and then eventually settled for most of the night at -10db. Now it's quite possible that my band was a little louder out front on Friday night, than I had the band on Saturday, but I doubt by much. Would a second L3s make that much difference in head room? All of this didn't sink in until today as I rest, watch the leafs beat the bruins and reflect on my busy weekend. If I had have thought of it at the time, I would have maybe tried taking one of the L3s's offline to see how much overall volume difference it makes. At any rate I was happy to have a happy band and happy audience for my first gig doing sound with this system. It's so easy with this mixer. And sitting out front with my ipad was really cool. I was just surprised by the difference a second L3s can make. Now obviously, this isn't a controlled comparison, but just ballparking the difference, room 3 times the size needing 5 db less overall master level. Food for thought....

I went and tested this out except I used two 3's and a 2. For the first test, I connected the first speaker to the second then the second to the third and then the 3rd back to the first. This puts the speakers in the following configuration. Speaker 1 = L, 2 = L&R, 3 = R. If you plug something into the RCA jacks in the back of any of the 3 speakers it will play out of all 3 speakers, great for a drum machine. Now for the tricky inputs Speaker 1 channel 1 will come out of Speaker 1 and speaker 2 Speaker 1 channel 2 will come out of Speaker 2 and speaker 3 Speaker 2 channel 1 will come out of all 3 speakers Speaker 2 channel 2 will come out of all 3 speakers Speaker 3 channel 1 will come out of all 3 speakers Speaker 3 channel 2 will come out of all 3 speakers If you configure the speakers the same but don't complete the connection of speaker 3 to speaker 1 you still get Speaker 1 = L, Speaker 2 = L + R and Speaker 3 = R but the behaviour of the inputs is different. If you plug something into the RCA jacks in the back of Speaker 1 it will play out of all 3 speakers. If you plug it into the back of speaker 2 it only plays out of speaker 2. If you plug it into the back of speaker 3 it only plays out of speaker 3. And again with the tricky inputs Speaker 1 channel 1 will come out of Speaker 1 and speaker 2 Speaker 1 channel 2 will come out of Speaker 2 and speaker 3 Speaker 2 channel 1 will only come out of speaker 2 Speaker 2 channel 2 will only come out of speaker 2 Speaker 3 channel 1 will only come out of speaker 3 Speaker 3 channel 2 will only come out of speaker 3 So with all that in mind, Set Up number 1 would be the best way. This is what I would do. Drum machine into the back of any of the 3 speakers, you will then get L/C/R for your drums. Guitar 1 into Channel 1 of speaker 1 (assuming that guitar player is standing closest to speaker 1) Guitar 2 into Channel 2 of speaker 1 (assuming that guitar player is standing closest to speaker 2) This way each guitar player will hear themselves the better but still hear the other guitar player through speaker 2. Bass guitar and Bassists vocals into channels 1 and 2 of speaker 2, this puts the bass with the drums out of all 3 speakers. Guitarist 1 vocals into speaker 3 channel 1 or 2 Guitarist 2 vocals into speaker 3 channel 1 or 2. This puts both of these vocals through all three speakers along with the bass players vocals. So to summarize you have the two guitars kind of split so that you can tell who is playing what, with a predominant L and R side. You have the drums in stereo with a summed centre channel. You have the bass out of all three speakers. You have the 3 vocals out of all 3 speakers. Sounds like a great setup to me.... I would do either 3 L3t's or Speaker 1 = L2t, Speaker 2 = L3t and Speaker 3 = L2t. You can see in another thread that the L3t makes a great bass rig. As I was typing this silverhead posted a response, and I agree with him as much as he agrees with me. Let me just add in terms of the cost difference. I don't know about in the US but in Canada the difference between no mixer and the mixer is $90. Seems like a no-brainer to me. The difference between the L2t and the L3t $139. Not a lot really but they each have their advantages in terms of size and weight. I have 2 of each, there are times when I am just going to a jam and putting my guitar and vocals through an L2t. It's is plenty of power and low end for those 2 instruments, I can easily cut through real guitar amps and acoustic drums without even working the L2t. Plus it's lighter and easier to take to those situations.

Personally, given your line up, I would go with a couple of L3t's or L3m's. I know they are bigger and heavier than the L2m's but only by about 18 lbs each. And they'll give you much better bass response than the L2's. I say go with the "t" models because it's worth it to have the on board mixer. In fact, if you got one each, you wouldn't need to bring a mixer at all. Assuming you all sing, each speaker has 2 inputs for your instrument and a vocal mic. The drum machine could go into the RCA inputs on the back. Then you have everything covered. A slightly less expensive version of this setup would be that the bass player gets the L3t, and runs the bass and drums through his speaker, the the two guitarists get L2t's. I know you can link two together through the L6 Link, I haven't tried or heard of linking three and making a 6 - 9 channel mixer, I may try wiring up 3 of my speakers together to see if this is possible. I think whether you all go with L3t's or if two opt for the L2t's linking them up would still be fine. But either way, using this format you could each just show up with your own Lxx, individual instrument set ups and mics. Link them up at the gig and your ready to go. Whether you consider any of these options or not, I will test out the 3 speaker configuration and post back with the results.