litesnsirens

Just how much trouble is it to take the speaker out of the bag? The speaker was designed to ventilate if you don't believe it turn it on and play through it you will hear the fans start running. If they are in the case there is nowhere for it to ventilate. But getting back to my first question, I don't have the bags, YET!!!, is it really that much trouble to pick it up out of the case? Like do you have to wrestle with it to get it in and out of the bag?

You are correct!!! I had asked this and had it answered... I was a little confused about the reply though Apparently channels 1-5 share the same algorithm And 6-12 share one. Not sure if that is just to save channels having to duplicate notched frequencies.

That's great news baseman...

It's 12 frequencies over the whole mix, which in most situations should be able to take care of any feedback issues. It has for me so far. Given the chance I will ring out the room, open up all the mics and crank the volume until band after band of feedback fades in and then gets choked by the M20d. If I keep it going and keep cranking it I could probably exhaust all 12 bands but I'm guessing that the first 4 or 5 are all that would actually ever cause any problems at actual playing levels. Once I turn the levels back down to playing levels I don't even hear a hint of feedback for the rest of the night. Technically you could argue that I should only ring out the first 4 or 5 so that the notching doesn't affect the overall sound but I have never found that to be a problem what gets notched out is such a thin sliver that it doesn't affect the overall mix to a noticeable degree. If during your testing you aren't hearing the feedback come in and then within a few seconds disappearing, there must be something wrong. I say that based on the test you have described and the fact that you have explained enough in your previous post that it's unlikely, although I guess remotely possible, that you are overlooking something. You're checking to make sure that the FBS is activated on the channel that you are testing, narrowed it down to a single live mic, cranked the level so that the feedback is really strong and constant for a long enough duration that the M20d can recognize it and notch it out. I don't know what else to suggest there must be something not working properly. I wonder if re-installing the firmware might bring it back online. One of the Line 6 guys will see this soon and offer better suggestions than I ever could... Hang tight.

The M20d should be able to notch out 12 different frequencies. The difference between the vocal and universal is just how aggressive it is, you would use universal on instruments that may use fairly long sustained notes that don't have a lot of variance since that is what the FBS is trying to find and notch. You said that you noted the red lines, how many did you see? If there were already 12 frequencies notched then you may have maxed out before the DPA 4099 could be picked up. Every time you shut down the M20d all your FBS settings are lost. I have actually put in a feature request that Line6 update the firmware to allow us to save the FBS settings with setups and then perhaps assign a clear FBS function in the tweak mode. That way if you find that you are having troubles with the same frequencies in a given room you can save a setup for that room and if you need to start over you can just clear the FBS settings without shutting off the M20d and then turning it on again. When you start to ring out the room, how about trying it with every thing except the DPA 4099 muted. Ring out that mic first so you can make sure that problem frequency gets found and notched and then un-mute everything and let the M20d find whatever else it can find then when you turn the volume back down to the level you're actually going to be playing at you should be good to go.

Those mute buttons are actual hardware switches not software based so there's no way to remotely activate

I think you are just a little off in your interpretation of what the scene is and does. There are a bunch of scenes loaded into the M20D and you can tweak and save them or start from scratch. They are in fact a single channel setup. So for instance when you look at the strip along the bottom and you are dragging a "male vocal" from the strip onto the virtual stage you have just dragged a "scene" onto the stage. So for instance you tweak it a little bit so that it sounds good with "Dave's" mic and "Dave's" voice and you get the reverb and delay settings just the way "Dave" likes them you can then tap on the scene at the top and "Save As" "Dave's vocal mic". Then if you are ever creating a new setup for a band in which "Dave" is going to be singing, you can just go in and load up the scene "Dave's vocal mic". So the "Scene" is an individual input and the "Setup" is just as you figured it's all the scenes that you have loaded as well as all the other parameters that aren't necessarily covered in a scene. The nice thing is, if you have saved your setup but didn't save individual scenes within that setup, you could go back load up the setup and then if there is a particular scene that you would like to use for another setup you can save that scene from within the setup at any time. As far as what overrides what, now that you have an understanding of what a scene is, you can see that it will really come down what order you do things in because both scenes and setups can be modified. If you create a new scene and don't save it, then load up a new setup, you will lose your scene. And conversely if you are building a new setup that you haven't saved yet, and have tweaked a vocal mic and then load up a scene onto the channel where that vocal mic is, you will lose the tweaking that you have done. So the bottom line is if you are building a new setup and are going to load a new scene, save the setup before you load the scene. If you are working on a scene, save it before loading a setup. If you use that practice you will never lose anything that you have been working on. It may take you a bit to find one or the other once you have saved them but you can be sure they will be in there somewhere.

I had posted issues here before about not being able to get my M20d to read some of my SD cards even though they were the right specs and even though they had worked previously. I had also posted subesquent where others were having similar problems that messing around with the folder levels on the SD card would help bring it back online. I am now leaning a little more towards the fact that the folder levels could have more to do with it than I had earlier suspected. It seems that unless you have the exact previous setup still intact in the M20d, the M20d will "appear" to not read your card. It will show the little red "?" in the upper left corner of the display. Let's say for instance you put in a brand new SD card, and it's your first time trying this out so you are at the most basic folder level. Great!! M20d reads your card and you go ahead and record something. Even if you don't create a folder on your own, M20d will make a new folder each time to start and stop a recording. So now you have done a night of recording on your SD card and you are now going to your next gig and you are going to use a new SD card. You put the new card in and go to the record page and you see the red "?" in the upper left corner. This is because the record mode is still on the last folder of your previous recording, it doesn't zero out automatically just because you put in a new card. So it can't find the folder on the new card and you get the red "?". If you just back out of all the folder levels so that you are at the level of the card itself, the red "?" will turn to a blue "SD" and you will be able to start using your new SD card. I just thought I would share this in case others are getting frustrated. I am now thinking that because I bought an M20d that was on display in the store, employees may have tried out the recording feature thus leaving it in a state where it was looking for a folder that was not on my first SD card. That's why I had so much trouble getting it to work and that's why when I took my SD card to the store to try it in a still boxed M20d it read the card right away.

Cool, I love those Cajons... I think with your setup your going to get a really accurate representation when doing a virtual sound check.

That's correct bassman24, it'll be much less of an issue. The only issue I can see is with the percussion what sort of percussion is it? My band runs everything direct including electronic drums so our virtual sound check is pretty accurate. It's a great feature, we do the same thing standing up on stage for monitor mixes.

Hey, I'm not laughing at any of your methods ... I agree with all of your philosophies and methods. In my band all members are in our 50's, we put all instruments direct into the PA no onstage amps at all, bass is direct into the M20d and drums are Roland e-drums. We also don't need a real loud stage volume and like to get that balance of quiet enough to be comfortable and loud enough for us to get us into the groove. We often find ourselves setting up a stage level then backing it off, then backing it off a little more. As far as treating the whole thing as a joke... the name of our band is "Happy Pants" We're pretty sure with a name like that no one will think we take ourselve too seriously. Also we are our own roadies sound engineers etc. The beauty of this system is that it allows us to do this more easily and with greater success/results. As far as going with an L2t or L3t for the monitor, my recommendation would be, if you want to have a smaller portable speaker that you can just carry around easily or quickly get an L2t so that you have at least one. Otherwise get the L3t, the L2t sounds great don't get me wrong but the L3t is that much better and will give you a fuller richer sound on stage

I'm not sure what the price differences are in Australia, but here in Canada it's only $90 difference between the t and the m versions. The method of use that you are proposing should work perfectly for you. The only thing I would suggest if you can is get either an L2t instead of the L2m or even another L3t for your 3rd speaker. It just expands your options even more as far as inputs, which you may not need at the moment... but you never know when that extra flexibility might come in handy. I realize it's a fairly heavy out-lay of cash all at once at at that marginal difference between the m and the t version... it's a no-brainer for me. I have the M20d, an L3s two L3t's and 2 L2t's. Even with the mixer I don't have a single m version. My other guitar has his own L2t which he loves and our bass player just bought an L3t to use as his monitor. That's why I suggested possibly a 3rd L3t, it's got a really huge sound for a monitor. I considered going all L3t's for monitors as well but I wanted something smaller and lighter that I could take for just quick jams when I want to just run my vocals and guitar through it. And there's also the consideration of what sort of vehicle you have to transport all the gear with. I can get all my gear in my Mazda 3 sport, if I had 4 L3t's instead of 2 and 2 that wouldn't the case. Just out of curiousity, In your power trio is the bass and guitars going to go through traditional back line amps and then into the speakers or through modelling stomps.

I was the one who had done that experiment. I no long have the DXR10, I sold it to get another L2t. When I had done the test I went from the L6 link out from the M20d to L6 link in of an L3t, then using L6 link connected a second L3t, then from the line out of the second L3t to the Yamaha DXR. I tried both the mix and the through line outs from the second L3t I did not get sound either way. Both L3t's had sound... nothing coming out of the Yamaha. I never did try this experiment with while plugging into an input on one of the L3t's so it's not quite the same experiment, and I was just doing this test to try to help out. I didn't try looping the L6 link from the second L3t back to the first, I was plugged into the M20d and that particular question was involving an M20d. I don't know if it would be recommended to make such a connection while plugged into an M20d. By the time I did any experiments to see about linking up 3 Stage source speakers (without an M20d) and getting the inputs to work I didn't have the Yamaha anymore but I could use all the inputs from all 3 speakers. I had some of the speakers in stereo mode, but if you put them all in dual mono you will hear all inputs in all 3 speakers.

I bought the other one they recommend, I think it was a Samsung. I found it was too unreliable to get a connection. If there are other stronger wifi signals in the room, it can make connecting a nightmare. I finally went with their number 1 recommendation which is to buy the apple USB to ethernet cable and then use that with and actual wifi router, in my case I bought an Apple Airport Express. Now connection is instant and reliable. Everyone in our band has an iPad. 3 of us use it mainly for the OnSong app. But this will allow each guy during soundcheck to tailer his own monitor mix from their ipad. Once we get that down and save the scene I doubt it will change too much from venue to venue, but still the minor adjustments can be made.

Those are some good points ArneLine6 the question mark in the upper right corner is what I see sometimes when I can't get the M20d to recognize my SD card. Sometimes with a little fiddling I can get it to come back online. IT doesn't seem very robust though I am using the class 10 cards and FAT format. And sometimes when I start a session with a card that was working perfectly the last time I used the M20d the next time I turn the M20d on it won't recognize the card and I have to fiddle around a bit going in and out of folder levels just to get it to recognize the card. Then it works. If there was a way to make this a little more robust in the future that would be awesome. The other suggestion is one that I never thought of but makes sense, if you have all the recorded files but are now on a different setup you may not have the tracks set up for the files to play through. Just the way the M20d works is until you drag some channels onto the stage you have nothing.

What are you using as wifi to connect to your iPad?

I have found that the M20d is in fact glitchy trying to get it to recognize SD cards. Some cards that have worked perfectly in the past will not immediately be recognized on the next boot up. This is quite annoying, but with some tweaking, usually just trying to create a new folder or going to different folder levels on the card will bring it back online. It could also be that Davec69 has essentially accomplished the same thing by creating a new setup. I think acutally when I have back out of the folder levels to until I am just looking at the card itself on the M20d (if there is a USB also plugged in, this would be the level where you would choose which card you want to record on, so you would see both cards). At least that is what I did last time. I will be more careful about the steps I take next time it happens, it's just that when you are at the gig you're just frantically trying everything to get it to work.

Could be a defective unit... it happens. The first L2t my other guitar player bought was defective. It was just really quiet and seemed to overload at the input easily. We set up one of my L2t's exactly the same settings and it was crazy loud and no overloads, he swapped it out for another one and has had no problems ever since.

Yes, I have heard warnings regarding using the red setting in the L3t from the guys at Long and McQuade. I have used the red and never had any issues, but I only put guitar and vocals through it under these circumstances. I'm guessing the red would be equivalent to using the vocal setting on the M20d and the green more like the universal. The issue would then be that a sustained keyboard note could notch out a frequency or maybe even a sustained intentional guitar feedback. But it would seem it would have to go long enough to be analyzed so perhaps I've just never triggered the notch when using it this way. I've also found that when the L3t or M20d notches out a frequency it's really defined so to my ear the overall sound doesn't suffer. Having said all that I can certainly understand how the aggressive FBS could affect the sound negatively, I'm just saying it personally hasn't happened to me... yet...

That would depend on how you are using it. If you are plugging into the mixer on the side you would use the FBS buttons on the channels that you are plugged into. If you are plugging into the back from a mix you would use the FBS button on the back. If you are using the FBS on the M20d it may be hard to tell if the FBS on is working or not. Maybe it has been necessary yet because the M20d is already picking out those frequencies. If you want to just test to see if it works on the speaker, turn off all the FBS on the M20d and then try it out. Keep in mind that if you are at the point where you are just getting little hints of feedback here and there, it's enough for either M20d to L3t to analyze and notch it out. I tend to ring out the room, I crank the volume beyond what I need purposely invoking feedback. Let the speakers and or the M20d determine and filter out the feedback and then turn down to the level I am going to play at.

what a great idea!! Then when you load the raw audio files that you recorded at the gig into your DAW you could recreate the exact mix that you had on the M20d.

I have never made any attempt to save anything after making a recording, and my material is always there. When you press stop it saves it and pressing record again starts another file. The only reason I could see for having to save a scene would be if you want to play those files back through the system as they sounded that night ie; with the same eq, levels and effects. Now, that's not to say that there isn't still some processing going on after you stop the recording. It could very well be that if you power down the M20d before pressing stop on the recorder you could lose everything, or even if you do press stop perhaps you need to give the M20d a little more processing time before powering down. But I don't think you need to save a scene in order to keep the recording.

In all fairness I haven't been including the main outs either, so I can't say one way or another what would happen if I did. Maybe I'll experiment with this and get back.

That's bizarre behaviour that you guys are getting. I haven't done a ton of recording with my M20d yet but everything I have done has worked perfectly. I have had some issues getting the M20d to recognize my SD cards from time to time even some that it previously read, just on a given day it won't read the card. I sometime have to reformat or just mess with it trying to create folders with it on the M20d. But essentially if I see the remaining time displayed in the upper right corner of the record mode screen and the blue SD icon in the upper left ... I know it's all going to work perfectly.

In fact none of the outputs on the M20d are amplified. As with any non-powered board you need to use either powered speakers or passive with a power amp in between. Just as you wouldn't use your L3m or L3s speakers with a powered board.