litesnsirens

If you notice above all the topics Line6Tony put an announcement entitled "Why is Line 6 not responding". That may answer part of your question in regard to Line 6 not responding. As for the rest of us... we don't know what the problem is... I love my mixer but it hasn't been without it's problems, I'm trying to get them rectified at the moment. There is really no other mixer that has all the features this mixer has. All I need now is to have it completely trustworthy. I'm hopeful.

I've had the bags for as long as I've had the speakers which is about 1 1/2 years now. On one of the bags one of the wheels broke, but L&M replaced the bag free of charge. That was the only issue, never happened with the other bag or with the replacement since. It could have been the result of someone not being careful with the bag in transport. I now make sure everyone knows to just be mindful.

This is exactly the same issue that I have been having. I've looked at the touchmix but to be honest one of the most overlooked and key features of the M20d is having digital, saveable trim settings. The auto-feedback is a close second, and of course Line6 Link connectability. Being able to save the trim settings and not have them get changed just in transport is HUGE.... All we have to do is make sure our personal instruments are at the same level (usually 12:00) and our mix is consistent gig to gig to rehearsal. Playing in 3 bands this saves so much time and headaches... I just can't see going to a mixer that doesn't have this feature.

I've only used L6 Link with my M20d and never heard any earth hum. But that's anecdotal, I could try hooking up via the main L & R outputs to see if I hear any hum.

Ya I'm considering trading mine in and buying a new one for the same reason. Even if they haven't changed anything, it might be worth taking my chances that I get one this time that works properly out of the box. I've rented units (while mine has been in for repairs) that worked perfectly so I'm hopeful. If this was an automobile it would be a recall. I love this mixer, and still want to own one just not the one I have. I've had it in twice to try to fix the problem and both times it has come back without being completely fixed. The first time was under warranty the second time I had to pay for the repair plus the rental of another M20d while mine was in for repair. I don't think it's fair to have to pay for a known design flaw, the money I paid to buy this mixer in the first place should have bought me a working mixer. But since it is costing me money, time and effort, perhaps just eating the cost of buying a new one over and above what I get for a trade in will be worth it in the long run.

I find the second sub somehow increases headroom but you don't always need that. What I mean is, with one sub, I may need to increase the level on the mains compared if I am using 2. Having said that, when you're talking about having the mains set at -15db vs -12db you're still a long way off from 0db so there's usually ample headroom in either configuration. So ya, I think in a lot of cases my second sub is more of an expensive speaker stand. It does look impressive though.

Good points, SiWatts69. I've never considered not taking the subs for any gig of any size. But that's more due to my particular setup. My band runs no onstage amps and our drummer uses electronic drums (Roland TD-12), so even for the smaller gigs, the bass and drums sound better with the subs. What I would consider for a particularly small gig is just running one side, so 1 L3t and one L3s. This is the setup we use to rehearse in my basement. The sound is still awesome even at lower volumes. Again, the beauty of this system. Using the L6 Link you can just plug in one L3t and one L3s and the system just configures itself. Having said that if our drummer was using an acoustic kit and bass player playing through an amp, so it was just vocals and maybe guitar through the system, I could see going without subs for smaller gigs. Easier load in and out for sure.

I think that set up should be fine. Add a second L3s sub down the road and you'll be able to do bigger venues. The difference between the L2t and the L3t is the second 10" speaker, which in the L3t, handles low end frequencies. When you add the L3s sub, the crossover kicks in meaning that the second 10" (low frequency) speaker isn't doing a heck of a lot. I have heard that it will add about 3 db in a certain frequency but is that worth the extra size weight and cost?

I am using a Roland product as my guitar processor but I can say that I am extremely happy with the sound through my L3t's. I owned some L2t's before for monitors but sold them when I went with IEMs for monitors. The L2's were just as good as the L3's for guitar. It's great for going from acoustic to electric sounds without missing a beat. If it was me I wouldn't hesitate, but to each his own. It would be great to try them side by side to see if you really can hear that much of a difference.

Here's what I'll say about the L2t vs L3t. First off that we are going for the "t" version makes the most sense unless you know you're never going to just go out and jam with just a single speaker. Contrary to popular belief, the L2t actually makes more sense if you're going full PA as the top 10" speaker on the L3t is for low frequencies. Since the subs crossover the low frequency speaker in the L3t doesn't get a ton of work when integrated with the L3s subs in a full PA setup. They do add a bit but you could easily get away with the L2t's in a full PA set up. I had already gone with the L3t before I figured this out but I wish I had gone with the lighter smaller speakers. So if you're trying to decide between L2t and L3t it's down to whether you need a little more bottom end when being used as a stand alone speaker or just a pair with no subs. As far as between the EV and the L6 L series for guitar, while I have no experience with the EV, I don't think I've heard a full range speaker that can give your modelled amps that organic guitar amp tone that the L series can. It's amazing. I used to use the Bose L1 personal PAs and while they provide a nice crisp vocal sound and they do a decent job on guitar, I think the line 6 speakers just sound that much more like a real amp.

I have to agree, L2t is the better value for the money. It's a great little mixer on the side and you just never know when it's going to come in handy. I would also say don't spend a lot of time clouding your mind with other options, these speakers just sound great as FRFR for guitar. I don't believe all FRFR are created equal when it comes to guitar tone. I used to think my modelled guitar tones sounded great through my Bose L2 system but it just has a more organic real amp type tone through these speakers. They're a a warmer sound for guitar. I would say vocals were a little crisper on the Bose but they still sound great through this system and I can get much louder with these speakers.

What guitar processor are you using? Does it have speaker simulators and if so are they turned on? I'm currently using a GR-55 through my Line 6 stage source speakers and use it on reference PA but I am using the speaker simulators. My guess is that if you were getting a good sound using the L2m in guitar mode you wouldn't need the speaker simulators. Or if you did have them engaged it would effect how you eq'd your guitar tone, which would be noticeable when you switched modes on the L2m. If this is all too obvious I apologize it's just because more info is needed.

First of all Dave, I don't want this to sound argumentative but I know it probably will. Sometimes you put things into text to make a point and it just sounds disrespectful. That is not my intent at all, I mentioned above that I get your point, in general I do, but I think what I'm missing is the just the gravity of it. With that out of the way let's get on with it. Yes, many of us are happy with what we've got, 1) we did our research (as I'm sure you did too) about what the mixer could do and then said to ourselves "that's great I'm going to spend a bunch of my money on this" and 2) this is an amazing mixer that delivers great sounding mixes room after room after room. Although some of the credit has to go with to the stage source speakers, what other system has a protocol like Line 6 link, where you can daisy chain out of the mixer and everything just aligns itself left and right and tops and subs cross-over point set, but adjustable if needed etc. Quick and easy set up, as advertised. I have to disagree with your premise that our being happy with what we have is costing you your update. I doubt they are looking at this thread and saying "ha, look at all the people that are happy, let's just throw in the towel". The 10 or 12 people that have weighed in on this is hardly a representation of all the M20d's that have been sold. In fact it's too small of a sample to even project percentages in any responsible manner. I really honestly think it comes down to the things I eluded to above. First, Line 6 wants this to be the best product it can be. Sometimes that means not messing with it. That said, if they agree that certain features will make the unit significantly better without sacrificing processor performance, we will see an update. Line 6 has already done one update on this mixer, and they have done updates on many of their other products and are generally pretty good as far as that goes. But let's just set that aside and set aside what any other companies have done or do and concentrate on this product. Maybe it's just me but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of spending this kind of money on what one hopes a mixer might do in the future as opposed to what it actually does. That would mean before you even get it home and plug it in, your already aware of what you perceive to be shortcomings. I mean, I guess so, but I just don't see it, not without some kind of banner on the box saying "Lot's of cool features to be added in the future!!" I'm not getting from this thread that there are things that the mixer doesn't do that you can't live without, it seems more like, "it would be nice if it did x, y and z". I could be wrong but over all that's that spirit of what I think you're saying. But what is sad? What ideas are on ideascale that would significantly improve this mixer? Like I said I put forward the idea of saving FBS settings, even argued my point. But Don Boomer from Line 6 disagrees with me that it is necessary or even helpful. Maybe he's right. I thought it would be helpful based on my experiences with the board but over the months/years since I made the request, the lack of this feature hasn't really had that big of an impact on me. And if Don is right, maybe it wouldn't have worked anyway which would mean it has zero impact. This is just one example but I have to think that implementing ideas will change some things that some users may not want changed. It may mean one more menu level that some don't think is justified. So what I am saying is not all ideas are good ones, even if someone takes the time to put it on ideascale, so if Line 6 brings an update it will be well thought out and what they believe will be mutually beneficial to most users.

Personally, I bought the M20d for what it did at the time. I had no notion that it was going to endlessly have features added. I was excited and grateful when they brought us "fader view" and a few fixes. The main reason that the ability to upgrade via firmware exists is not with the vision of bringing updates. It's a device that operates via firmware, so if this needs to be reflashed to fix a problem the ability to do so is there. And without having to take the device to a service centre. Sometimes the fix is just reflashing the firmware that already exists. Davec69, Of course some of those features above would be great to have, Hell I think I was probably the first to ask for the ability to save FBS, even if it was just simply to ring out the room earlier in the day and then be able to turn off the mixer. But at the end of the day yes that would be a luxury but it's not essential. I'll focus more on the fact that compared to the old days at least I don't have to listen to the frequency that is feeding back try to identify it by ear and then locate and adjust manually on an outboard graphic EQ. The M20d does this automatically, and with such a narrow notch, it doesn't destroy to overall EQ of the mix. This is magic. In fact the depth of this mixer and what it actually CAN do is incredible. For me there is nothing else out there that I would swap any of this gear for, there really isn't. At the end of the day this mixer along with the stagescape speakers produce the best front of house mixes I've ever experienced. Isn't that what it's all about? Don't get me wrong, I'm not missing your point, but what features are going to get us better than the best sound. If it's about doing it more quickly, that would be difficult, for me, it would be down to shaving seconds off my set up time. Is that a justifiable request? Would auto EQ via a mic really be that much faster than having a listen and then using the built in X/Y quick tweak screens to dial in the sound? You still have to set up the mic and then activate the sequence. What if you do that and aren't happy with the auto results. For Line 6 it's a cost vs value argument and then you have to factor in the limitations of the hardware. Can you implement a new feature without making the mixer more laggy and without creating new bugs. This is a well thought out mixer, there isn't a ton of room for improvement. Line 6 does have idea-scale and I believe that if enough of the ideas are good enough and could come out on the plus side of the above equation (Cost/value/overtaxing the hardware) then Line 6 will offer a new update. If not, they'll leave it alone and stand behind what the mixer does do, which is deliver great sound.

Thanks Arne, much appreciated. I'm sure you can well understand that I can't use anything other than an M20d, I'm spoiled now.

I may send it back to Line 6 , I'm just guessing that it will be a lot longer to get it done if I have to ship it to them and back again. I started a support ticket, but the response was that they didn't know about any such issues even though I sent them a link to this thread. I'll have to look into time frames and how much it will cost me to rent a mixer while mine is away.

OK ... I have another question on this issue, as I have had other issues. Thinking about it now I think they may be related. So first, inputs 13/14 at first one channel would drop out randomly, took it in to Long and McQuade here in Canada for repair, now it just makes a lot of noise but I guess I should be happy that I have both channels. In reality I can't use those channels. Long and McQuade are authorized to do repairs on the Line 6 gear and I typically trust them but I think they may not have been aware of this problem at the time I took the unit in for repair. The second issue is with the headphone jack, on a fairly regular basis if I monitor through the headphone output one side would drop out. Aside from the issue of my vocal mic dropping out (inputs 1 & 2) all these inputs/outputs seem to be on that front row, 13/14 and the stereo headphone out. These all seem like they could be grounding issues. It's starting to make sense to me now... there are just too many issues going on in that front row or input/outputs to be coincidental. Hopefully if there is a fix available that is understood, I can get it done and have a mixer that I can use all channels on the board. With any luck since my board is no longer under warranty, I can get a support ticket underway and get this repair done for no charge.

Personally when using onstage amps, I try to get as low as possible stage volume and make it up with FOH and monitoring. I never re-adjust the trims, the amps get adjusted while I check the signal coming into the board and tell the player to raise or lower his clean channel then his crunch channel until the level coming into the board matches the already set trim. The comments about room size, shape, furniture, wall and ceiling treatments are all valid concerns. I find it to be less of a concern with this system though. To be honest, I've gotten so spoiled by this system that I hardly ever even check from venue to venue. I play in 3 bands so I have 3 different set ups.. but that's it...then it's just a master volume thing for me. That said I am using the line 6 speakers as well so I don't know if you already have the stagescape speakers but it will definitely make a difference in this regard.

I find I can only bring the monitor send on the m20d up to -29 db or it overdrives the input on the transmitter. So eklynx could be right, it could be distorting your mix. Other than that it's hard to tell what you're doing wrong when we don't know what you're doing at this time. It could simply be that you need a better over all monitor mix. I would un-link the monitor levels from the mains, record 20 seconds of a song (maybe a verse and chorus) into the m20d, then turn all the channels down to 0 and build the monitor mix up instrument by instrument while you play back the recording. On a separate note since my last post we have actually gone down to using a single stereo mix for all of us. That's right we are all sharing one mix. The thing I found with using individual monitor mixes, the "more me" concept was the disconnect that can happen to the unity of the band which affects the over all performance. Here is an example, I have a mix in which my guitar and my vocals are boosted just a bit over the rest of the mix, and each other musician has the same thing going on. So now the drummer is singing a song and I'm going to do back up vocals in the chorus. His vocal is boosted in his mix so he just sings comfortably and it sounds great in his mix, but his vocals are a little soft in my mix. But my vocals are boosted, so when I'm trying to do back ups it sounds to loud to me in my in ear mix so I back off the mic to make it blend in, in my mix. So now it's certainly going to sound like I'm barely singing in my drummer's mix and maybe only slightly better in the house mix. Same thing is going to happen with the instruments, you don't play as loud during certain sections because you are having the impression that your instrument is taking over. Now of course, this isn't going to happen to inexperienced musicians because their attitude is that the audience only wants to hear them anyway and my back up vocals should drown out the lead vocal. But to seasoned musicians that care about how they fit in as one part of a bigger picture these separate mixes can affect performance. So we've decided we can compromise and learn to play with out "me" taking over the whole mix. - just a thought for your consideration. At the end of the day, many bands like and use individual mixes... so to each his own.

Even a regular mic cable will work just fine for shorter runs. And in fact I was using a combination orregular mic cables and 30' DMX in my dreamscape PA system until one day I had to make a longer run and was getting a static sound coming out of one of the speakers. It was totally attributed to using the wrong cable. So I think in most cases you wouldn't actually need the AES/EBU, it's the time that you do need them and don't have them that are the issue. So I agree with The Real Zap, get the right cables the first time and have some peace of mind.

I ordered from Event Horizon and Services (www.eventhorizon-srv.com) online. Fairly reasonable prices for custom Mogami cables and you can get whatever lengths you want. I got and 18 footer to go from the board to the first speaker, then a 40 footer so I could easily get from one side of the stage to the other and three 6 footers for going from the L3s's to the L3t's. I only needed 2 but I got an extra.

OK so the obvious question would be, when would your FOH guy solo a channel in the middle of a performance? Or are you just pointing out that it may be annoying during sound check. I didn't know that the solo affected the headphone out but I know that the Mute all button doesn't mute the headphone out.

Third option, rig the output from the headphone out of the board to your manager.

Arne, this is very good news and should lay to rest a number of concerns in many threads that are on the boards right now. I'm very happy that this product line will continue, it's a great product.

OK so let me see if I am understanding this, I think that I may have been experiencing this. I've tried changing mics, cables.. and it only happens occasionally. Sometimes when I step up to the mic to sing after I've maybe stepped back off the mic for short period of time, the level is really low but singing into it kind of "wakes it up" and then the volume stays up for the remainder of the passage. I thought it might have been some kind of gating issue in my voice live 3 but it kind of sounds like what you are describing here. I believe I have managed to turn all the gates off in the voice live 3 at least all that I can find. Does this sound like what you are talking about?