litesnsirens

Totally agreed M20d in design and feature set is a masterpiece. If you are lucky enough to get one that works perfectly, I think all your mixing needs are covered. In fact if someone asked for my recommendation I would say it's a great mixer just make sure to put it through it's paces while you are still within the return period. As a unit, the M20d with the L3T and L3S speakers is just an amazing setup. I think it would be prudent for Line 6 to speak to this issue, let everyone know whether or not they have identified and eliminated this issue. If they could say every mixer manufactured after a certain date will ship without the problem, and there is a retro-fit (or whatever) for mixers manufactured before said date to repair the issue at no cost to the customer, I would still have my M20d and could recommend it without the caveat. Anyway, I'm still very happy with the speakers. The new setup is as close as I could get to what I had. I would say the new mixer has a few features that the M20d doesn't have and is missing some that the M20d does have. But as I said earlier, the save-able trim settings is an absolute must for me and I still have that so I'm happy.

I went with a different mixer. Had mine in for repair for this issue and they came back saying they couldn't fix my mixer and gave me a credit. I'm in Canada therefore deal with Yorkville as the authorized repair. I think the solution was fair considering I had the mixer in 3 times. I did consider seriously just exchanging for another M20d. I mean if fully functioning it's an amazing mixer with an amazing feature set. I guess I just kind of lost confidence and didn't want to be stuck with another one that didn't work as expected. I realize the chances of that happening were very low but still it's a lot of money and I didn't want to take the chance. So I found another mixer with saveable trims in the same price range and went that route. I'm kind of sad about it but I needed piece of mind.

I only ever got it to work with second generation. I have a first generation but couldn't get it to work.

LOL, I think they call that over thinking... I do it all the time.

I have enough AES/EBU cables the motivation is really just about convenience. I'm not sure I am understanding the pitfalls you are suggesting with my proposed setup. Maybe a better explanation will help. So I will try to explain my logic. Based on the fact that with a traditional mixer Line 6 is suggesting that I run L from the mixer to L into the L3s and the same for the R signal. Then daisy chain the line 6 link. It makes sense to me that once the L3s receives these two audio signals from the mixer it is able to pass them on via L6 link and separate them into L and R keeping the L for itself and the first L3t in the chain and pass the audio from R side onto the next two speakers in the chain. So I am theorizing that if it can do this, I should be able to send only the L signal from the L out of the board to one L3s and this would be the only signal it could pass on to the L3t that is connected to it via L6 link. The same on the right side it is getting only the R signal from the board and only has to pass this on to the connected L3t. The only task that the L6 Link protocol has to do other than pass on the audio signal is determine the crossover point, which it also has to do in the other scenario. The L3s no longer has to determine L and R, it just takes the only signal it receives, L or R, keeps all the frequencies below the crossover point for itself and passes on the rest of the frequencies above that point to the L3t. Does this make more sense than my original point? or do you still foresee an issue?

I think I know the answer to this, as it makes sense, but I just want to confirm. I have two L3s and two L3t, I was using the M20d but I am switching to another mixer. In the L3 diagrams in the user guide it shows going L and R out of a non M20d mixing board into the first L3s L and R inputs then daisy chaining the rest via Line 6 Link. So I am assuming that I could also go L to one L3s and R to the other and then just use the L6 Link to go from each L3s to the L3t sitting on top of it. Is anyone running this way?

This is typical of any device, be it Line 6, Roland, Digitech or even Fractal or Kemper, what you hear in the headphones is never going to sound the same out of loudspeakers. This has to do with physical laws of nature, so none of these companies are going to be able to overcome this. I suppose at some point someone may come up with some kind of compensation setting but I think they would have to have a different compensation setting for every brand of headphone out there. Might be a lofty goal. But I suppose Line 6 could come up with headphones specifically designed for using with their devices, but they may not sound any good for anything else.

I think they will automatically go into monitor mode if you turn them on when they are on their side. This can also be done manually but how exactly that affects the EQ'ing I don't recall. That said this can be over-ridden if you don't like them in monitor mode, just use the button on the back to put them back into PA/Reference mode.

Do you mean for the individual channels going to the monitor mix or the main monitor outs ie: monitor A, B, C and D levels. The latter are not saved and get reset to zero as does the master output each time you change a setup. If you are talking about the individual channels feeding into the monitor to create your monitor mix, those should definitely be saved and to me would be a very big deal if they weren't. It takes so much tweaking to make everybody happy, I'd hate to be starting from scratch every gig. The main outs I would prefer to be able to save them but I guess Line 6 decided that it was kind of a safety feature to not change setups and suddenly have feedback. I use in ears so it would be a non issue for me and actually helpful.

For sure start with a reset. The L3t/m have a very good low end. Easily enough for guitar and vocals. And if that's all you're running through your system it should be enough. If you want to run bass and drums you will likely want to add the L3s. I ran with a single L3s and two L3t for awhile and it worked great. I added a second L3s which as far as I can tell pretty much just added headroom. I can get much louder now with two than with one.

One workaround I can think of, just to add to silverhead's suggestion, is to create a preset in the HD500x that could essentially be blank except that it changes the L2t to PA/reference mode for your acoustic sounds. It would just be a "dummy" preset since no signal would be going through it but it might save you having to manually set the speaker mode on the L2t.

I just lost another wheel off one of my L3t bags. And since it happened the first time I have bent over backwards to baby these bags. I'll take it in for repair and see what happens. And report back in case it's different from last time both times for me the plastic casing around the wheels just snapped. I am so careful after the first time this happened when setting these on the ground from the car and even more careful to roll them along gingerly being ever so gentle when going over a door jam or any other kind of bump. I really didn't expect this to happen a second time. Maybe time for line 6 to look for a more robust wheel manufacturer to supply them with wheels for these bags.

I think it would be pretty easy to sync sound afterwards. So video the event with however many video cameras, record the audio to an SD card in the M20d, then sync it up later. The nice part about this method is that since it's multi-track you can re-mix, possibly fix a few mistakes and then sync it. Also mixing remotely, with ipad is the bomb! it's great to be able to go to different parts of the room and see how it sounds. No worries about leaving the board unattended. *** edit*** I just posted and then noticed SiWAtts69 had added another post. I have noticed that recordings on the SD card are pretty good at picking up enough ambient room noise to give it that live feel. But again if you need to you can add a bit of reverb at mixdown.

I would tend to agree with the above regarding mic'ing the drums. If it's necessary, I don't see any reason why a mic on the kick and carefully placed on the snare so as to also pick up a bit of the hi hat, then a couple of carefully placed overheads should cover it.

Yes, Line 6 advised that they do not ship internationally and advised me to contact Yorkville to deal with the issue. They advised me to let Yorkville know about the service ticket that I had opened and that they would work with Yorkville to work towards a solution. I have no reason to have less faith in Yorkville than in a direct Line 6 contact. As has been pointed out, when an issue is so intermittent and random, it's difficult to diagnose and repair. If you have an input that simply doesn't work, the repair tech gets the board and plugs something into that input and it doesn't work. They look to diagnose the problem, fix it and then it's easy enough to test if the input is now working. When the problem is intermittent, it's like working in the dark. They could receive the board, and test it to find that in that moment, even if it's 2 hours of testing (not that any tech has that kind of time) the unit is working perfectly. So they have to go by the notes that were sent, guess what the issue might be, fix that and send it back. Unless they are going to gig with the mixer for a couple of weeks they won't know if they've actually fixed the unit. If Line 6 was able to really pinpoint what the issue actually is, they could let all their authorized repair centres worldwide know and it would be a once in and out to the local repair centre for each affected mixer. As of yet I don't know that we are there. Further if Line 6 has figured this out, it should be a sticky on this forum.

I had some pictures of my rig but I don't know where they are now. I have a gig this Friday in which we are going to use this set up that I was referring to ... I'll get some pics and post them.

To add to my previous reply in regards to some options to try here, I have, along with my in ear monitoring option, created a pretty good option for regular monitors. I will get into my particular setup after I speak to the connections so that if you want to continue reading you can if not... you can click away. If you think that the house mix would be good enough for the band to listen to for monitoring then this will work for you. Set up your Line 6 speakers using Line 6 link as you normally would. Then from the back or your L3t or L2t speakers come from the XLR mix out to the line in of your powered monitors. This is just theory, but I think that since the L3t is only getting frequencies above 120 hz (depending on your crossover point) it should only pass on frequencies above that point to the powered monitors. And since those frequencies coming out of the L3s are omnidirectional you will hear them as well behind the speakers as you do in front. A lot of these powered monitor options have linking capabilities so the rest of the set up and how many monitors you set up will be up to you. But you can set up at least one from each L3t on each side of the stage. Now for my specific non in ear set up. I purchased a pair of Yorkville Sound NX10C speakers. They are pretty cool little speakers that are plenty loud for monitor use, coaxial so they are compact and lightweight and have a unique pole through mounting design that makes them fit nicely into my system. I have 2 X L3t and 2 X L3s. I also have both long poles and short poles from Line 6. I purchased a couple of pole mount brackets which I was able to attach to the top of my L3t's. So my set up goes like this ... L3s with short pole attached L3t goes on to the short pole of L3s. Long pole goes into the bracket on top of the L3t. The Nx10c slides onto the long pole and basically sits directly on top of the L3t but is secure due to the pole mount. Then I have a compact but powerful LED lighting rig that is mounted on top of the long pole. It's all very neat and compact. The NX10c speakers are set at 45 degrees facing the band so kind of an XY config from each of the two speaker towers. Yes, the speakers are a little above head height (unless you're really tall) and they don't angle down and yet it works. In fact other band members described the monitoring experience as amazing with lots of headroom before feedback . In fact for us so far, it actually gets to the point of being uncomfortably loud before we start getting feedback issues. That said if you've playing with the drummer set against a large window and he moves his vocal mic out of the way directly into the window, you could probably conjure up some feedback.

Well, I get that, but if you follow my other posts I relayed that I had some issues on this board with channels 13/14 and the headphone jack that behaved exactly like you would expect from a faulty mechanical input connection. ie; when the signal went it went completely and you could wiggle the cable and sometimes get it to come back intermittently completely with the expected crackling sounds. So the fact that this board is controlled digitally, so in essence by firmware, doesn't exclude it from behaving the way an analog board does when it has a faulty mechanical connection. I do understand, that in theory, there could be some sort of mechanical issue that would affect the way the firmware relays the information. If I wasn't clear enough in my previous posts.... I am not saying I believe it is the firmware, I am 1000% aware that this could fully be a mechanical issue. This has been my main belief of what the problem is all along. The only reason I am keeping my mind open to the possibility, however remote, that it could be a firmware glitch is, as I said before, a repair tech suggested it (as a possibility, not a total belief) and the strangeness of the behaviour. I think it would be a disservice to the possible global fix to just exclude a possibility, that's all.

I'm not sure, I took mine in to get repaired and they just gave me a brand new bag. I don't know if they just thought that would be easier, or the only fix possible. But it's worth a phone call to find out about the possibility of repair. That's the coolest thing about the bag is the wheels.

That blows... is there any Line 6 authorized repair dealerships near you?

The other option is using one L2t each and just physically putting them closer to each other. That being said I totally agree with BucF16, for the listener coverage is the most important thing, if the audience can hear both performers clearly the effect of a slight pan isn't going to improve the experience much if at all. Again as BucF16 says this argument comes up often and will probably rage on for decades. I'm sure we aren't making any points you haven't heard or considered, but it may be partly why Line 6 didn't deem it important enough to try to implement. Which I think would be tricky and costly and ultimately drive up the price for a feature a lot of people would never use.

To be clear, I'm not saying it isn't I'm just keeping an open mind about it based on the behaviour and the suggestion from the repair tech that I spoke to. To be honest before he suggested that possibility I was just thinking mechanical due to all the things I had read on this forum about the issue. In all my years of gigging I have never had a mechanical issue behave like this. The volume drops but doesn't cut out completely, there's no crackling sound associated with the drop then it just comes back to full volume without touching anything. It's almost like it's ducking or gating in some way. I've never had a bad cable, input jack or any kind of faulty connection behave quite like that. So I'm not shelving the possibility just yet. Either way, I'm not attempting to fix this issue myself. I just want to get my mixer back working and reliable.

I get your point but where does "well known issue" end and "huge numbers" begin? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just keeping an open mind. I don't know that I agree that it would necessarily be "huge numbers" or "possibly all" if it turns out that the issue is in the firmware. Firmware has to run on a processor, so the issue could be in the way the two are working together. Just the fact that Line 6 indicates that one way to try to fix an issue is to re-install the firmware would indicate that the firmware can get messed up on some machines and not all. Because not everyone is told to do this and not everyone has felt the need to. If it was every machine that would indicate that they need to do a wholesale fix of the firmware for everyone to install. As mentioned in my case, it's very random. If, in someone else's unit, the issue occurred but with far less frequency than what I am experiencing, that person may not even realize there is an issue with their mixer. I can tell you that it was a lot of testing and experimenting before I concluded that it was my mixer. I have a microphone, with a cable running to a voice live 3 (which has a lot of parameters) then two cables (L & R) running to the M20d (which also has lots of parameters including gates). So when this first started happening, I didn't immediately think it was the M20d. I thought it was the mic first, then went on trying to check everything I could think of, but then you just have to keep using the unit until it happens again. Point being, there was a lot to check. Two things happened to convince me that it was the mixer, a) I read of similar symptoms on this forum, and b) I started to notice it never happened when I rehearsed with my same setup through a different mixer. As I said I'm not convinced either way. As I am dealing with this issue I'm less convinced of one thing or another and I'm not even sure everything is related. From the day I got this unit, the headphone jack didn't work properly, one side kept cutting out. This was an issue where jiggling the jack could get it temporarily working. Channels 13/14 behave similarly, it sounded and reacted like a bad cable until we tried numerous cables. Both of those, issues have been repaired. These other issues are different in behaviour and have not been resolved as of yet. The wonky master volume knob, where you turn the knob and it just does what it wants, came and went on it's own. My fingers are actually crossed that it is mechanical, if it is, then when they replace the entire input/output assembly it should, in theory, take care of the problem. I guess just having dealt with this for so long, I'm not all that confident that when I get my board back it's going to work perfectly. They re-soldered and tested all the connections last time the board was in, but the issue is still there. I will also say that it wasn't really just my idea that it could be firmware. I put in a support ticket with Line 6. They advised that they don't ship internationally and that I need to deal with Yorkville Sound in Canada who are the authorized repair techs. I called Yorkville and discussed the issues with one of the techs. He said he had heard of the issue and that he was inclined to think it was in the firmware and suggested one thing he would want to try was to replace the entire motherboard. As I said they are starting with the input/output board, I guess the motherboard will be next, eventually I may only have the shell that is my original mixer.

My mixer had done the master volume knob gone wonky thing a couple of times. I can't recall how it got fixed, it could have been with the firmware update but maybe not. So it's possible that was a firmware glitch. And realistically so could all the other issues. So far the problem and fixes have been anecdotal. In my personal experience, I would say that if I have a gig or a 3 to 4 hour rehearsal, it will most likely happen once or twice during that length of time but it doesn't necessarily take a long time to happen, it could happen in the first 5 minutes. The point is it's very random, and very difficult, unless the repair tech wants to gig with the unit, to duplicate the problem in order to see what is actually happening. Even then when it happens and then fixes itself within a second, how does a repair tech say, "OK I got it"? With my unit, I could be getting full volume from my mic, then maybe there's a little instrumental break and when I step up to the mic, the volume is way down but by the time I finish singing that line the volume comes back. This is on my vocal channel I've had channels go quiet for a more extended period only to have it come back crazy loud after making some adjustments. Which begs the question, "when have you seen a mechanical issue behave like this?" I mean without wiggling a cable or something. And as a matter of fact wiggling the cable does nothing. If I'm in the middle of a gig the mic is on a stand and no one is near the board. But i can't mechanically recreate the issue at home. I run both my Voice Live 3 vocal processor and my GR-55 guitar processor in stereo. I was just in my basement playing guitar through the board when I noticed the guitar volume dropped. When i looked at the board I saw that the right channel was way back and the left channel was normal. I plugged from channels 7/8 into 13/14 and both channels were even in volume. Both were stereo linked and I actually did the channel swap function ensuring that all the settings were identical. No wiggling could get channel 8 to come back. But when I came back a day later and checked to see if it was still not working, it was back to normal. So while the evidence based on other user's experiences is compelling to suggest mechanical, I'm not 100% convinced that this couldn't be some sort of firmware issue. Like some kind of random gating going on or just signal interruptions based on some sort of firmware malfunction. My mixer is in right now getting repaired (again) for these exact issues. They are replacing the entire input/output assembly, they are even going to allow me to keep the loaner board for awhile in case I am at a gig and start having issues. If this repair works, perhaps it is mechanical, I'll better be able to say after a few months of using the mixer. But it the problem persists, I'd be leaning toward a software issue. Either way it's puzzling and annoying.

Well there are stereo inputs on the back of the device which will maintain a stereo field using L6 Link and... if you are only using a single L2t it will sum that stereo input to mono. They are RCA inputs so depending on what you want to play through that input, you may need some sort of adaptor. What are you hoping to achieve, may with more specifics there may be some sort of work around. We have to realize that this is a speaker with some added functionality in regards to having a mixer and the L6 link is beyond what any other speaker in this category offers. Personally the only type of stereo field I would consider for live use would be like guitar or vocal effects. I would never pan the actual instruments. With just the effects in stereo you can get a bigger sound but the actual guitar or vocal is still coming right up the centre. I don't want a different mix for one side of the room than the other. ie; left side hears more guitar than vocal, right side hears the opposite. Or left side can hear my partners voice but can barely make out my voice.