edstar1960

Thanks for the reply - would you mine sharing the parameter values for the GRAPHIC EQ and the PARAMETRIC EQ so we can try it out? Thanks in advance.

Hi guitarno - I use the XLR outs. I used a Y lead to take both L and R to one XLR lead which I then connected to the back of the B210D. I had the B210D at max line level and wasn't get a decent enough volume at rehearsal with the band. I tried using the HD500 mixer levels to boost the patch levels but ended up just over driving the input level to the B210D. I use a JTV59 and therefore the GUITAR IN is not used, so the GUITAR IN switch should not be relevant and besides I normally don't have it set to pad. I can't explain it but putting the Xenyx 802 in between allows me to add both warmth and volume to the HD500 output without overdriving the B210D. I can set the B210D line level to about 50% and have the mixer master set to 0 which gives me the ability to boost it quite significantly if needed. EDITED 19 Nov 13: NB: I have only now discovered that using a Y lead is NOT a good idea and is the WRONG thing to do for many reasons - so definitely not recommended! Instead just use either the L or R unbalanced 1/4 inch jack outputs. If you just use one then you will get both the HD500 L+R signals correctly and safely summed to MONO for your use. If you are routing to a mixer or direct to a powered PA speaker then ensure you have the 1/4" out switch on the front of the HD500 set to LINE and Global Output set to Studio/Direct, if you are routing to a guitar amp then leave it set to AMP and have your Global Output set to appropriate value of STACK or COMBO etc. Many thanks to user perapera for putting me straight!

This post from Phil_m (http://line6.com/support/topic/2351-battle-of-the-quacks/) showing v2.0 model strat and real strat recordings is proof positive that the v2.0 STRAT model should sound great. So I think my issue must be due to a faulty v2.0 flash upgrade even though it said it completed successfully - so it has got to be worth a couple more upgrade attempts before opening a ticket with L6 support.

Thanks for the replies. I know that Workbench HD gives both Global and individual string control. But anonyrat said that he had adjusted string volumes for certain models before Workbench HD, and that after he had upgraded that he found he had to adjust fewer models. My question is - how did he adjust only some models pre Workbench HD? ...

Thanks for posting this phil. I had a listen to your recordings and I could barely tell the two apart and I certainly could not have guessed which was the "real" strat as they both sounded like great strats to me. However, when I upgraded to v2.0 the strat sound I got from my JTV59 was nowhere near yours on the recording. My model was thin and lifeless and as if the volume had been turned down to 50% or less. However, when I rolled back to the v1.9 version I found that is comparable - not the same but comparable in volume and depth. So I guess that points to the v2.0 flash upgrade being faulty two times in a row for my JTV59. I will try it again and see if it provides a strat tone like your recording on the 3rd attempt. And if not then I guess I will have to give it a 4th and maybe a 5th try before opening a L6 support ticket. Certainly your recording proves that the v2.0 model should sound great and as good if not better than the v1.9.

No worries bignath. Thanks for your input - much appreciated. Glad to know that the B212D works in a band environment as it is a possible future option - but I have to say I am very tempted by the Stagesource l2m. But maybe the B210D setup will be good enough. We will see...

Upgraded to v2.0 after some problems but TELE, STRAT and SEMI models pos 1,3,5 sounded very weak and thin so could not really hear them well enough to see if problem fixed. Rolled back to v1.9 and volume and depth restored to those models and the odd sound on the D string seems to be gone or at least very much diminished! So did I just have a faulty v1.71 flash install? Or did something change between v1.71 and 1.9 to resolve the issue or mitigate it? I suppose I could try rolling back to v1.71 again to see if the problem re-appears? I might try that if I find the time. As expected the Acoustics are much different because I now have the HD versions which have divided opinion and I am unsure what I think about them at the moment. I was accustomed to the v1.71 sound and had worked hard to get them to sound good through HD500 and my B210D, so now they have changed I will have to tweak some more to get optimum sound - at the moment it sounds like too much body noise coming through, which is not quite what you would expect for a mic'd acoustic - but I am certainly no expert and maybe I will grow to prefer the new sound and when I roll back will not like the pre-HD sound. Anyway - sorry to ramble - the odd noise on the D seems to have gone with the flash upgrade - but unfortunately it now seems more pronounced on the high E on some models - maybe another reflash is called for? I really don't understand how a software upgrade can sometimes work perfectly and sometimes almost work and introduce slight imperfections or odd results with modelled sounds. I would have thought it either worked or it didn't. I can't get my head around this "almost worked" scenario. Plus you never know if you have got slightly imperfect flash install !!

Thanks for the replies guys. anonyrat - you mention you changed the individual string volumes on some models - how did you do that? I can only find a global setting for String Volume in Workbench (not Workbench HD) - so all models have the same String Volume setting. So how did you get models to have different string volumes?

Just tried v2.0 - but found TELE, STRAT and SEMI models pos 1,3,5 very low output vol. Tried it again , same issue, so rolled back to v1.9 and these models once again have full volume and depth as expected. Not sure at this point whether it is due to faulty flash upgrade or whether it is what the v2.0 models are meant to sound like. They certainly don't sound like the v2.0 models I have heard on Sean Halley's video and on Christian Arnold comparison video. So I am thinking mine is due to faulty upgrade even though it said it was successful. When I get some time I will try another upgrade to v2.0 to see if they sound better or see if I get the same issue.

Thanks guitarno. I am plugged into a rear USB port, and I have now tried updating to v2.0 again but still had the same result - very low output volume on the TELE, STRAT and SEMI making the sound very thin and weak as if they were modelled with the volume controls turned down to half or less. Maybe boosting their output volumes in Workbench HD would make them usable but should I have to do that? Does that indicate a problem with my update? So is a reflash a better option? I have now rolled back to v1.9 and those models have now got volume, definition and depth back. They also sound different to v1.71 which I did not expect as I did not think they had changed between those versions. So perhaps my v1.71 install was faulty? I will experiment some more and will try another v2.0 upgrade to see if it sounds different next time.

Thanks for the response bignath. The B210D is only rated at 200W but the B212D is rated at 400W - so it is double the power, plus the larger speaker will push more air and will project more and sound even louder still. If you read the data on the Behringer site about the B2xxD series they actually go on to explain the difference in volume for each speaker size and it's relative effects. I tried my HD500 with MAX volume out, and boosting with the HD500 mixer stage to +6db or more for some amps, and the B210D just wasn't producing or projecting the HD500 patch sound at the necessary level. It was loud but thin. Putting the mixer in between, gives it more warmth, more depth and ore volume enabling me to realise the 200W rating of the B210D. (I suppose there is a possibility that the HD500 could be faulty? And it is not generating the right output signal level?) I must admit I did think at the time whether I should have gone for the B212D, but decided I wouldn't need 400W and I liked the idea of small portable speakers, but I am now regretting that decision and wishing I had opted for the B212Ds as the extra power is needed to punch through at gigs with a true representation of the HD500 patch. But I am hoping the Xenyx 802 with B210D combo will be enough - but its a while until my next gig so I can't try it out yet, so I am just dialling in what I hope will be good gig level tones. If they don't sound great at the next gig with full band then I will have to sell them and upgrade to the B212D or go upmarket and get a Stagesource l2m - that baby has 800W and feeback on the forum is excellent but it is a fair bit more expensive at over twice the price of a B212D. :)

You need a VARIAX VDI cable. It will be an industrial strength version of the one that comes with the guitar to connect to the USB dongle for connecting to your PC. It will have protective casing around both ends instead of just one. You can use the one that came with the 89F just to try things out at home. I would not recommend for a gig though as the unprotected RJ45 end could get broken.

Thanks - I have just upgraded to v2.0 and the issue was still there although it did not seem quite as bad.

In an effort to fix an issue with my JTV59 D (4th) string sounding very nasal and boxy and very different to other strings, I decided to upgrade from FW v1.71 to v2.00, just to see if it was a fw issue or a piezo issue. Firstly I hit the "(Code 80009000) Unknown MIDI Error" issue right at the end of the upgrade. Repeated 3 times still same issue. Decided to roll back to v1.71 - that worked - so thought I would try one more time for v2.00 and this time it worked and displayed the Tyler Variax Update Successful message. Next I tried the JTV59 now with fw v2.00 with my HD500. Please note that I have spent many days previously tailoring my patches on the HD500 with my v1.71 sounds to work with my Behringer B210D powered speaker and had finally got some decent sounding patches. The only issue I had was this odd sound on the D string that was particularly bad when playing LESTER and SEMI in pos 3. So I was excited to try out fw v2.0, hoping that the odd noise would be tamed and that I would love the sound of the v2.00 models. Oh my oh my was I disappointed. The v2.00 models sounded like they had lost their balls - like they had sampled guitars that had their volume controls truned down to half or under and their tone controls rolled back a bit. The TELE 1,3,5 positions which I use suddenly were fainter and weaker The SEMI sounded nothing like what I thought a 335 should sound like. It sounded almost like they had modelled the guitar unplugged rather than the output of the humbuckers. Does a real 335 really sound like the new HD model? I have never had the chance to play one so I really don't know - but I know it is nothing like the earlier version and to my ears doesn't sound like a semi fitted with humbuckers. The new acoustics had far more pronounced body sounds and so did the Reso models, but again I felt the output was maybe quitter than before. The new Lester pos 1 model doesn't seem to have the sustain of the earlier one - fading out really quickly when holding a note on my lead patch and again generally sounding thinner. Workbench HD tells me that the GLOABL STRING volumes are as follows: low E is 0 db A is -3.7 db D is 0 db G is -2 db B is 0 db E is -2.5db I did not set those values - they were the ones it came up with - so are they the default values for GLOBAL STRING volumes with fw v2.00? So, I have a choice. Do I try yet another re-install v2.00 in the hope that it was an install error and that next time I will get nice full sounding HD models with the correct level of output? Or do I go through each model with Workbench HD and tweak the output volumes to see if I can reintroduce the balls to their sound? Or do I just reset the GLOBAL STRING volumes up a few db? Or roll back to a previous version? Thanks in advance for your responses.

Thanks for the input guys. As you can see I have adjusted some of my strings a lot and some a little. I did this simply by listening to the JTV modelled sounds via headphones connected to my Alesis io/2 interface on my PC whilst my JTV was connected via USB to my PC with Workbench running. I just plucked each string in turn on various models and tried to make them sound about the same in overall volume. So it is definitely very hit and miss and I may need to readjust once I have had a chance to play some more guitar model and amp combinations . However, the effect of these changes when playing through my HD500 is noticeable, everything does sound better, and I had no idea that string volume alone could make such a difference. clay-man - good point about having max string volume at max pick attack to avoid clipping, but as Charlie points out - how do you know when you are clipping? I have had the JTV59 since they came out and have only just discovered that perhaps for all this time I have been causing clipping and getting a sub-standard sound from my HD500 as a result. I thought it was just the HD500 and now I find that perhaps it was the JTV after all? So how do we work out what string volumes are optimum for our own JTVs and piezo's with Workbench? Is it just trial and error, one string and one model at a time playing through the HD500 and listening carefully? Plus, if you pull volume back to stop it clipping on one guitar model and one amp, how do you then avoid having the string volume too low for some other models to get the correct sound eg; like the sitar which may need everything maxed to work correctly?

Have you tried setting BIAS to 100% and BIAS EXCURSION to 0% for the amp patches to remove the fizz? Does it help at all if you try those settings?

In an effort to address an odd nasal overtone on the D (4th) string of my JTV59, I changed my string volumes under Workbench to the following: E (6) - 0.85 A (5) - 0.65 D (4) - 0.60 G (3) - 0.80 B (2) - 0.90 E (1) - 0.75 I had never touched the string volumes before in all the many years I have owned a Variax and then a JTV. I still have a v700 and never adjusted the individual string volume in all the years I have owned it. I have owned the JTV59 since they were first launched and until now never felt I needed to adjust the string volumes within Workbench thinking that surely it must be at it's optimum performance level if all strings were left at their max volume. To my surprise, although it did not resolve the issue I was trying to fix, I found that the adjustment did have a positive effect on the patches I was using through my HD500, and with the new adjusted string volumes I found all my patches sounded better. The HD500 is set up with Input 1 and 2 set to GUITAR + VARIAX and SAME, which is the recommended default. I had tried muting Input 2 before and had noted that the lower guitar input did seem to make patches sound better but overall I found that the JTV input signal was too weak so had resorted to using SAME, but I had noted with this setting that the overdrive sounds did not sound quite right, always a bit muddy and it was a struggle to get clarity without introducing harshness. BUT now - with the adjusted string volumes, it seems that everything is dialled back just enough for the sounds to have more clarity and in my humble opinion, to my ears at least, do sound better. I was wondering who else had changed their string volumes on the JTV, why they had changed the volumes in the first place, and what the results were for them and whether they stuck with it or changed back to all strings at max volume as per the default? I would be interested to hear others opinions/views and experiences - and seeing other people's optimum string volume settings ...... thanks in advance for sharing.

Further refinements: In an effort to address an odd nasal overtone on the D (4th) string of my JTV59, I changed my string volumes under Workbench to the following: E (6) - 0.85 A (5) - 0.65 D (4) - 0.60 G (3) - 0.80 B (2) - 0.90 E (1) - 0.75 This "cleaned" up a lot of sounds on my HD500 patches - everything sounded better - perhaps because the strings were not over driving the input volumes for the amp models? I don't know - but certainly all patches sounded better - more realistic and less digital harshness. I also experimented with the SAG, BIAS and BIAS excursion values some more. I have settled on SAG at about 60% for most of my amp patches - it gives a slightly softer more rounded sound to my playing to my ears. I have discovered that a high BIAS value greatly coupled with a low BIAS EXCURSION value greatly reduces the fizz (or crossover distortion) that is present for the over driven amp sounds - even the mild ones like AC15. This "fizz" really stands out with full range PA speakers and is really almost impossible to EQ out with simple EQ controls - so without a multi band EQ available the BIAS adjustments did the trick. For my AC15 I ended up with BIAS at 80% or higher and BIAS EXCURSION at 0%. For the more over driven amp sounds like MARSHALL or SOLDANO, I found that 60-70% BIAS and about 40% BIAS EXCURSION was fine to my ears. Hope these tips help.

I just tried my VOX AC15 model patch and attempted to get rid of the annoying fizz that seems to be an integral part of the sound. I found that setting BIAS to 100% seemed to moderate the fizz considerably - it did not disappear but it was way more in the background and seemed a more natural part of the sound and appeared to be more like natural tube breakup. I then tried setting BIAS EXCURSION to 0% and found that it gave me a bit more brightness without re-introducing too much fizz. I settled on BIAS at 80% and BIAS EXCURSION on 0% which seemed to me to give a good natural sound without a long drawn out fizz when notes are fading. I also set SAG to 60% but that did not really have any effect on the fizz. Have you tried adjusting the BIAS settings for the amps that you have fizz problems with?

I am also trying to get rid of the fizz from my HD500 overdrive/distorted sounds. I have just bought some Behringer B210D speakers which really accentuate the top end, so the fizz really stands out. I am spending hours trying to dial out the fizz but keep a good distortion sound. I have not succeeded completely yet. I can make it less prominent but its always at the cost of the overall tone. I also have an X3 LIVE which took me many months to tweak to get good live sounds from, but I didn't have fizz issues with that, however, I can't go back to it now, as the HD500 amp models sound much more realistic, and when I try the X3 LIVE with my programmed tones to my ears it just sounds artificial in comparison. But the HD500 does have this annoying fizz that just hangs on in there.as notes fade away, the fizz lingers on. I use a JTV59 via VDI connected to the HD500, and I was wondering whether it was the combination of modelled guitar tone going into modelled effects and amp tones which resulted in the high fizz, or whether it was a subtle setup issue on the JTV59 causing a hiccup in the guitar model which then gets carried forward into an unwanted digital artefact in the HD500. I have also seen all the demo's from Paul Hindmarsh and Sean Halley and many others all demonstrating excellent sound quality - so I know it must be possible. I just have not figured out how to reproduce it yet. Or, I just happen to have a slightly faulty HD500 and/or a slightly faulty JTV59. There are so many things that can go wrong from a physical hardware perspective, let alone all the things that could go wrong with all the modelling code or from me setting parameters or control options slightly wrong. Even a slight amount of string buzz on a string could be making all the difference. Then there is playing technique - my style of playing or my level of ability will also be playing a vital role in the final tone produced - so I may just be causing the problem myself simply by how I play. I have spent way too many hours just tweaking with settings and trying to isolate the problem and seem to go round in circles. Every so often I appear to make some headway, only to come back the following day and find that the sound I thought was great last night now sounds not so good and needs some more tweaking. Frustrated...

Thanks again Charlie. I checked the mags and the odd sound is not there. Atfer a few more checks I noticed that it is very prevalent with LESTER POS3. Just hitting an open D produces it. When compared to an open A, the open D sounds very nasal (like its caught a cold) or boxy, and as the note fades there is a slight fizz that kicks in. Very annoying. The high E exhibits a similar quality. If I play an open B, then an open high E, there is some distinct difference between the tones, the high E sounds more nasal or boxy. I have adjusted my string volumes in Workbench thinking that it might help, but although it has reduced the volume of the offending strings, this strange nasal tonality is still clearly there. When using models with 2 pickups selected (usually the pos3 option for each) it really stands out and there is a slight flange effect to the notes played. I have compared it with the mags on the JTV59 - when in middle position and both mags on - I have played the open D and fretted notes and it sounds nothing like the Lester model pos3 which introduces this nasal tone and flange effect, and it's also present on the SEMI pos3 and the CHIME pos3. I am wondering if I have a faulty piezo or if its a design fault with the bridge. It really ruins my enjoyment of playing the JTV59 because it is so obvious. I think my next step will be to upgrade to the latest flash levels and see whether that fixes it. If it doesn't then I am not sure what I will do. Just for completeness of documenting what I have done, here are the string volumes I set my JTV59 to: 6th E - 0.85 5th A - 0.65 4th D - 0.60 3rd G - 0.80 2nd B - 0.90 1st E - 0.75

Thanks Charlie. I will double check with the mags, but I thought I had done that last night and the "resonance" on the D was coming through on the mags too, I will try it again tonight.

Thanks guitarno. I seem to get this resonance on pretty much all of the D (4th) string. I will see if mine is worse when F# note is played. I have certainly noticed it often sets off the A string - and I get a droning A in the background if I am not careful about muting my unplayed strings.

My JTV59 is on 1.71 flash. I have noticed that the D-string (4th-string) seems to be louder, more prominent than the other strings, but more importantly, it produces an odd sound, almost like it has it's own reverb. I connect the JTV59 to my HD500 via VDI, and this odd sound appears when all effects are off and I am just using an amp model. The low E, and A sound normal, just the string sound coming through, but the D has this pronounced reverb/echo, almost like it is a plucked D on an acoustic guitar. On some guitar models, particular the SEMI pos 3, this can almost sound like it has a flange effect on the notes played. I also have an odd overtone that is apparent on the high-E which is like a very quick echo or twang, so you don't get just the plucked note. This is noticeable when compared to a plucked note on the same fret position for the B string. There is something else added when plucking the same position on the E. This can occur on the open or on any fret position. However, the D string "solo-reverb" or "acoustic-twang" sound is very prevalent, and comes through on all models. It gets accentuated when playing an AC15 model, as the vox trademark bark becomes a really annoying mid-range honk with the D string. I wondered whether anybody else has experienced this or something similar? I hope I have described it well enough as it is difficult to put it into words. I will try to capture it in a recording and post for review. Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the reply - yes the sound is like a "static" click. It's really annoying. What level of flash are you on with your JTV? Just wondering if it's present in all versions right through to 2.0.