edstar1960

Yes - I have created some custom presets that have the LP pups on the SEMI body. I also pulled down output vol to -2db as they are really loud. They still sound very loud when played through my HD500 patches - so I may tweak them down some more. I also prefer that combination but I need to tweak a little more to get them just right. Thanks very much for the advice - good call! :)

Thanks for the response. What values did you settle on for your global string settings? Which model JTV do you use? Thanks.

I have now played a few times at home with the v2.0 models on my JTV59 and I have sorted out the correct settings on my HD500 and got the correct connections to my powered speakers, and all is sounding good. I think I will be keeping v2.0.

Thank you once again ext1jdh. The EQ adjustments for the banjo have improved the sound, however, it has not removed the "static pop" sound. It is still there and comes and goes during playing - very annoying. I wonder why I had never noticed it before? I can't stop hearing it now!

My pleasure guitarno - thanks for your kind words - I am happy to share my experiences and knowledge and hope that it helps others get the best out of their gear Please note the updates I have just made to this thread in light of some recent revelations regarding the signal routing of the HD500. I am hoping that I have cracked it at last!

I upgraded my JTV59 to firmware v2.0. I connected up to WORKBENCH HD and checked the GLOBAL STRING SETTINGS. I noticed it had them set as follows: E 0db A -3.7db D 0db G -2.0db B 0 db E -2.5db I had adjusted the string volumes under WORKBENCH prior to my upgrade to v2.0, but I had adjusted all the string volumes and not just the A,G and high E, so I don't know where these values came from within WORKBENCH HD. I had also played my JTV at v2.0 through my HD500 and had not noticed any difference in string volumes so was surprised that some were different. I decided to adjust them all back to 0db and did not really hear any difference. So I experimented with moving the sliders and realised that I had to go to -6db or lower to start hearing the difference in volume. Has anyone else who has upgraded to JTV v2.0 firmware and then gone into WORKBENCH HD for the first time noticed that their GLOBAL STRING SETTINGS were not all set to 0db? And if so, were they set to match what you had previously set or something different or did they match the values I saw listed above? Does anyone know what the "db" unit is measuring for the global string volumes? It seems to me that a -3.7db value compared to a 0db should be noticeable even at low headphone volumes, but the difference was not noticeable to me - I had to really adjust the sliders way below -6db to notice a volume difference. Thanks in advance for your responses.

Thank you very much Lorenzo! I really appreciate all your time and effort in giving me such a comprehensive reply. I have clicked on the links you gave me about Y cables and now understand that I have been doing the wrong thing! In fact I am now concerned that maybe I have damaged my gear because of this misuse of the Y cable - I hope not. I have also read your other thread where you and hurghanico describe in great detail the difference between the balanced (XLR) and unbalanced (jack) connectors on the back of the HD500. And I have also read through the HD500 ADVANCED GUIDE V2.10 specifically looking at detail about signal paths and also the connectors. I think that finally I understand the signal routing paths of the HD500. If it was not for your post here, I would never have got to the bottom of it, so thank you very much for sharing and for answering my questions! Today, I will put into practice everything I have learnt, and will hopefully get a great sound out of my HD500 at GIG volumes with any gear. I will rework my powered PA speaker connections (STOP USING Y CABLES!) and then rework my HD500 patches to work with the correct connections. I will then repeat the process with my other patches for direct amp connections and for DT25 with L6Link to ensure the signal paths are correct. UPDATE: Removing the Y cable and taking the L/mono jack unbalanced out from the HD500 into my mixer channel, plus on HD500 setting using Global Option STUDIO/DIRECT and for each patch setting mixer pan controls to 100% for L and 100% for R, made a big difference. Everything sounds much better already! :) Background: Why did I start using a Y cable in the first place? I had a V700 and an X3L. The X3L never cut through at gigs - always sounded very thin when amplified at volume. I thought it was because I was only using one half of the output signal, so decided to try using a Y cable to capture both L+R outputs and it certainly did seem to improve things, however, it still did not provide sufficient signal level to drive my STUDIOMASTER GX12A powered speaker at sufficient volumes to compete with the band at gigs. So I then introduced a BEHRINGER B105D, and took this combined XLR L+R signal and put it into one of the mic/line inputs. I only had to boost that signal by a few db's, with the trim control on the channel set to between 8 and 9 o'clock. The THRU output from the B105D was at line level and went into the input of the GX12A and bingo, I had the gig volume I needed and depth of tone I was after, although it was still not perfect and compared to a real guitar through an amp did lack depth and punch - in other words still sounded "thinner". I then got my JTV59 and used the same setup, and everything was improved with the better sounds produced from the JTV59. Then I got the HD500, and it took me many months to migrate from the X3L to the HD500. Many many hours of tweaking etc., and I am still doing it now as I have just bought 2x BEHRINGER B210D active powered speakers, so needed to get the sound adjusted for them. The HD500 seemed to have an even weaker output than the X3L when using the same PA setup, so I carried forward the idea of using the Y cable to capture both L+R outputs to avoid a thin "live" sound and also found that the HD500 output still needed a bigger boost before heading to the powered PA speakers to generate the correct volumes. So, I started using my XENYX 802 for this purpose. The XLR outputs from HD500 went into a Y cable and then a single XLR went to the XENYX 802 into a mic channel with trim set to about 9 o'clock - and then a little adjustment on the HIGH and MID EQ controls, set the CHANNEL volume to 0db (12 o'clock) and the MASTER mixer output to 0db (12 o'clock) - take both L+R master outs (jack connectors) combine with yet another Y lead (oh no!) and then into a jack to XLR converter and then XLR into the B210D and then link that to the next B210D with the THRU connector and another XLR. Both B210D's had their trim control's set to 9'oclock. That seems to produce a nice loud volume that is OK for home usage but will not be loud enough for gigs. However, I still have the ability to turn up the MIXER channel volume, the MIXER MASTER out and the B210D trim controls which should get me there, BUT, I have not had the chance to try that yet. What now? After reading all your information I now realise that ALL of what I have done to overcome the "live" thin sound of the POD at GIG volumes is WRONG! I will have to start again from scratch with the correct knowledge of how the HD500 signal routing works and work at getting a good "full" tone from the POD at gig volumes using other means!

Thanks Phil!

Just wondering if anyone has any idea when the Workbench HD Strat bug might be fixed? I am itching to get in and play with Workbench HD but I am concerned that just by connecting up to it that it may screw up some of the v2.0 "as supplied" sounds. Will just connecting to Workbench HD cause my JTV to lose it's STRAT pos 2 and 4 - or do I actually have to go in and load each one into Workbench and then sync with the JTV to pick up the problem? Or can I connect up and create custom models and tweak other models without issues as long as I avoid the STRAT bank? Thanks in advance.

For a MONO setup - I would also like to understand the difference between placing the AMP before the SPLIT Paths and placing the AMP after SPLIT paths after the mixer? I experimented this morning, trying the same amp before and after the split paths and also with mixer L+R values at 100% and then at 0%. With amp before and mixer L+R at 0%, I get lots of volume. If I swap mixer L+R to 100% then I get reduced volume. If I move amp to after mixer and have L+R at 0% I get reduced volume in comparison to having amp before split. If I move amp to after mixer and have L+R at 100% then volume seems to be similar but the amp gets driven more. Again, I would appreciate recommendations for where is best position to place amp for a mono setup. Where will it provide most realistic (best) modelled sound? Default seems to have amp always in front of split path - so is that the ideal position? Is that scenario where the best sound will be generated? Thanks in advance.

I have yet to play with Workbench HD so maybe some custom made models are what I need, and maybe swapping to pick ups on the new 335 model will get me something I prefer. As you say, it is just a new model to be used as supplied or customised or ignored as each user requires.

Thanks for posting ths. However, can you confirm the 335 is the same model in both v1.9 and v2.0 although they may have sampled different guitars for each? When I referred to SEMI models in my earlier post, I meant the bank labelled SEMI, which is the Gibson 335 and Epiphone Casino. The 335 is one of the models I used the most and sounds very different as I explained earlier. I don't use the JAZZBOX bank, so don't think I am affected by a swap from humbuckers to P90s eg. the Gibson 175. If the 335 in v2.0 is just a different sample with humbuckers then I am surprised they sound so different. It sounds like a totally different guitar to me.

Again - thanks for clarifying. That probably explains why the SEMI's all sound so different. So maybe I won't be able to tweak them to what I am used to. I used SEMI pos 1 and 3 mainly before. So I will have to see whether I want to continue using them, or tweak them or use different guitar models on those songs. Yep - I had noticed that the TELE, pos 2 and 4 had changed greatly as well, but as I had never used them before I had no reference to offer an opinion, on how they had changed. I was only voicing my opinion on the ones I Had used pre and post HD and how I thought they had changed to my ears. Thanks again for the info - things make more sense when you know the full story and the background.

Ah! Thanks radatats! I usually program my HD500 using the hands on control when I am connected to my powered PA speaker or when connected to my DT25. I keep forgetting about HD EDIT! So to do the same thing outside of HD EDIT, is presumably to set the sound on HD500 and then set the topology on DT25 and then save patch on the HD500.

Thanks for that snippet of info! That may well explain my experience regarding the acoustic models. The sound difference on the SEMIs between 1.71 and 1.9 remains a mystery and may well be an install glitch that I was blissfully unaware of until now. The difference in sound of the SEMI's between 1.9 and 2.0 is clearly intentional and is very obvious. I do like the fact that you can hear more of the "wood body tone" coming through, but not so keen on the thinner quieter sound - although if I use Workbench HD, I may be able to tweak the volume and make them sound a little fuller. I will have to experiment.

Thanks very much for posting this very useful information. I am still struggling to get my head around the routing of the HD500, but this thread certainly explains a lot of things and why certain things I have encountered have occurred. I have a question which I can't figure the answer to. When creating a new patch or when tweaking an factory provided setting, I have noticed that the MIXER is set as 100% LEFT and 100% RIGHT. As I play live in MONO, I take both the L and R XLR outputs with a Y lead and connect them to a single XLR lead to run to the mixer and then on to a powered speaker. I always struggled to get my sound to punch through in a band setting and discovered that if I used MIXER values of 0% for both L and R values that I would get a louder fatter sound than using the default of 100% LEFT and 100% RIGHT, even though I was manually summing the signals with my Y lead external to the HD500, the 0% settings produce a fatter sound and drive the speaker better (or so I thought). I had often wondered why this was the case because I thought both scenarios should effectively be the same but from your diagrams it would seem that using the default values (100% L+R) means you MUTE the other half of the signal from that path, but using % for both means you keep both L+R signals from both paths, which means I am doubling the signal output. Is that correct? What is the recommended/best way to use the mixer? Is it best to use the defaults 100% L+R or to modify to 0% L+R? Which option will produce the best final output sound? I am concerned that what I thought was an obvious way of getting a stronger signal (ie: 0% L+R) is just producing a level that is overpowering the end of the signal chain and therefore creating a harsher tone rather than a fatter warmer tone that I am trying to create, and therefore, maybe I should be going back to the default setting to get a better end sound. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the advice phil. I will try the JTV v2.0 upgrade again through the HD500 and see if it is immediately trouble free, and whether or not it changes any model sounds. OK - just tried it - and it worked first time! Models still sound as they did from the previous v2.0 attempt. So looks like I have the correct v2.0 sounds. My opinion on the sounds is that the TMOD pos 1 sound is still too weak (quiet) for my taste as supplied. The SEMI's sound much thinner but perhaps that is more authentic, but for my taste I would prefer them fuller, but I do like the "wood" sound of the body coming through, that is much more pronounced. The SPECIAL pos 1 is also weaker but still sounds good, particularly when using an overdrive effect. The STRATs sound pretty much as they did before on first listening, probably a bit more natural sounding.

I have just upgraded to flashware v2.0 for my JTV59. I had several problems getting there but that's another story. I have noticed these two odd behaviours with my JTV59 and HD500 since the upgrade: 1) loud pop/click when swapping between patches on the HD500. Does anyone else get this? Is there a fix for it? I can't live with this and if there is no fix, I will have to roll back to a previous FW version. 2) after swapping to a patch that selects a particular JTV model, if I then move the pickup selector switch, it will move to another guitar model in the model bank associated with the model chosen by the patch. I can even press the ALT-TUNE knob to get positions 2 and 4 and it still stays in the bank selected by the patch. Prior to v2.0, if I moved the pickup selector, I would get the sound of the model that was selected by the MODEL bank on the guitar and not by the patch. eg: if patch moved to TMOD pos 1, but guitar set to LESTER and pickup selector in middle position, if I moved the pickup selector to position 5, I would get LESTER pos 5., however, now with v2.0, if I do the same thing, I get TMOD pos 5. Is this how it is supposed to work? I can live with this if it is just a behaviour change. Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the clarification anonyrat - that makes perfect sense now.

You are correct that there should be no difference between the 1.9 and 2.0 acoustic models. Remember I am only stating my opinion based on my experience, and that I had problems with the upgrade process, therefore, there is no guarantee that what I originally heard was the correct models for either 1.9 or 2.0. I am even unsure that my original 1.71 level was correct, because there were differences between the SEMI models on my 1.71 and the 1.9 I installed, and the SEMI models had not been updated between those releases. This leads me to believe hat I have had slight faults with all of my JTV flash installs that have somehow affected how some models sound. Either that or I have another fault in either my VDI cable or my HD500 that is causing models to sound different after each upgrade and between each time I go and experiment to listen to the sounds. All I can report is that between 2 different upgrades to v2.0 that some models have sounded different each time, and that the rollback to v1.9 in between the two upgrades also had some models that sounded different to v2.0 but also to v1.71 which was not supposed to happen.

OK - I tried upgrading again - it took a few attempts - but this time things do sound different. I wrote up a full report in this thread: http://line6.com/support/topic/2866-how-many-persons-rolled-back-to-a-before-hd-version/ I will use Workbench to tweak to taste and see if I can stick with firmware v2.0. Just to make it easier to follow - I have cut and pasted my entry from the other thread here: OK - so I decided to try upgrading to v2.0 again this morning. I had got there after a few hiccups previously but thought some models were very weak sounding so rolled back to v1.9 where all models sounded good. So this morning I went from v1.9 to v2.0. Connected up my JTV59 via the dongle to the same USB port I had used before and on my first attempt it failed with the UNKNOWN MIDI PORT error right at the end. Odd. Everything was connected just as before when it had worked. So I tried for a second time. Once again it failed at the end with the UNKNOWN MIDI PORT error. Very odd. OK - so I thought what if I unplug my Alesis IO/2 USB interface as that is the only thing connected that has a midi port. So, I unplugged the Alesis IO/2 and tried a third time. Wow! This time it worked and I got the TYLER VARIAX UPDATE SUCCESSFUL. I tried it out through my HD500 and to my surprise, the ACOUSTICS sounded great, the RESO models sound too loud so may need volume adjusting in Workbench HD, the STRAT was a normal volume and sounded great, the LESTER was incredibly loud, the TELE sounded normal on POS 5 and 3 but on POS 1 (the bridge pu) sounded too quiet, most Tele's I have played the bridge pu is louder and has far more attack than the neck pu, and from what I recall the earlier TELE pos 1 model was louder and had more attack, it certainly drove the HD500 patch I have set up for it far more, so this is one that would need adjusting in Workbench HD to see if it can be tweaked back to what I think it should sound like. I also use the SPECIAL pos 1, and this sounded quieter than v1.9 but not by much and still seemed usable so maybe this is a more accurate model and I can tweak if I need to. Finally the SEMI, well it was louder than the last time I had upgraded, more along the volume of the STRAT and TELE but still was not as full bodied sounding as the prior v1.9 model, but maybe that is how 335 should sound? It certainly was nowhere near as weak and quiet as the last time I had upgraded and I think this time it is usable and maybe with a tweak in Workbench HD will be great. So this time I get a different result - but why? This time v2.0 seems usable and worth perservering with and worth a little effort to tweak to taste. So - I thought - is this a one off - have I got yet another slightly off install? So I thought to be sure, I would reinstall v2.0 one more time to make sure it was not a fluke. I went back to the PC, connected up the JTV59 exactly as before and bam first re-install attempt I get the UNKNOWN MIDI PORT ERROR at the end!! What?? The Alesis IO/2 was not connected. Everything was as it was before, 20 mins ago when I successfully upgraded. Oh well! So I had no choice but to try again - and this time - the second attempt I got the TYLER VARIAX UPDATE SUCCESSFUL. I rushed off to try through my HD500 to see if anything else had changed or if it was the same as before. After a few minutes, trying the ACOUSTIC, the SPECIAL, the TELE, the STRAT, the LESTER and the SEMI, I come to the conclusion that it does still sound the same - so maybe I have at last got the correct v2.0 install. But why does it fail? And why do I need to attempt the install several times in a row to get it to work? And why, some times, does it says it works but the models don't sound right? Try to reinstall again and then the models do sound right? Confuses the hell out of me. Summary of my thoughts on v2.0 on the models I use: ACOUSTICS - sound great - yes there is more body tone coming through but it is not overpowering this time whereas the first time it was. RESOS - sound great but sound much louder so probably need volume tweaking in Workbench HD LESTER - sounds great but much louder so probably needs volume tweaking in Workbench HD STRAT - sounds great, not noticeable different from before, maybe a bit more subtle TELE - all sound great except for pos 1, bridge pu, which is too quiet, I would expect this to be louder and have more bite, but is it an accurate representation of their modelled TELE or is it a slight blip in the v2.0 install on my JTV59 and is fine for others? I may be able to tweak this to taste in Workbench HD unless it is a fault in my installed model - so maybe another flash reinstall is needed for this? SPECIAL - pos 1 is quitter than before but still usable, a little tweak in Workbench HD may be needed SEMI - quieter and less full bodied than v1.9, but perhaps this is how a 335 should sound, I don't know. It has more bite. Again volume can probably be adjusted in Workbench HD if needed. I am disappointed that the install process is not trouble free, and that there is no way of knowing if the update has worked completely successfully even if it tells you it has. However, I am now no longer greatly disappointed with the models, but it is too early to say whether I am overly impressed with the new versions, but they will probably grow on me and I may find that I can really hear the differences after a few weeks and will not be able to roll back to an ealrlier version. We will see ..... meanwhile ..... time to play!

OK - so I decided to try upgrading to v2.0 again this morning. I had got there after a few hiccups previously but thought some models were very weak sounding so rolled back to v1.9 where all models sounded good. So this morning I went from v1.9 to v2.0. Connected up my JTV59 via the dongle to the same USB port I had used before and on my first attempt it failed with the UNKNOWN MIDI PORT error right at the end. Odd. Everything was connected just as before when it had worked. So I tried for a second time. Once again it failed at the end with the UNKNOWN MIDI PORT error. Very odd. OK - so I thought what if I unplug my Alesis IO/2 USB interface as that is the only thing connected that has a midi port. So, I unplugged the Alesis IO/2 and tried a third time. Wow! This time it worked and I got the TYLER VARIAX UPDATE SUCCESSFUL. I tried it out through my HD500 and to my surprise, the ACOUSTICS sounded great, the RESO models sound too loud so may need volume adjusting in Workbench HD, the STRAT was a normal volume and sounded great, the LESTER was incredibly loud, the TELE sounded normal on POS 5 and 3 but on POS 1 (the bridge pu) sounded too quiet, most Tele's I have played the bridge pu is louder and has far more attack than the neck pu, and from what I recall the earlier TELE pos 1 model was louder and had more attack, it certainly drove the HD500 patch I have set up for it far more, so this is one that would need adjusting in Workbench HD to see if it can be tweaked back to what I think it should sound like. I also use the SPECIAL pos 1, and this sounded quieter than v1.9 but not by much and still seemed usable so maybe this is a more accurate model and I can tweak if I need to. Finally the SEMI, well it was louder than the last time I had upgraded, more along the volume of the STRAT and TELE but still was not as full bodied sounding as the prior v1.9 model, but maybe that is how 335 should sound? It certainly was nowhere near as weak and quiet as the last time I had upgraded and I think this time it is usable and maybe with a tweak in Workbench HD will be great. So this time I get a different result - but why? This time v2.0 seems usable and worth perservering with and worth a little effort to tweak to taste. So - I thought - is this a one off - have I got yet another slightly off install? So I thought to be sure, I would reinstall v2.0 one more time to make sure it was not a fluke. I went back to the PC, connected up the JTV59 exactly as before and bam first re-install attempt I get the UNKNOWN MIDI PORT ERROR at the end!! What?? The Alesis IO/2 was not connected. Everything was as it was before, 20 mins ago when I successfully upgraded. Oh well! So I had no choice but to try again - and this time - the second attempt I got the TYLER VARIAX UPDATE SUCCESSFUL. I rushed off to try through my HD500 to see if anything else had changed or if it was the same as before. After a few minutes, trying the ACOUSTIC, the SPECIAL, the TELE, the STRAT, the LESTER and the SEMI, I come to the conclusion that it does still sound the same - so maybe I have at last got the correct v2.0 install. But why does it fail? And why do I need to attempt the install several times in a row to get it to work? And why, some times, does it says it works but the models don't sound right? Try to reinstall again and then the models do sound right? Confuses the hell out of me. Summary of my thoughts on v2.0 on the models I use: ACOUSTICS - sound great - yes there is more body tone coming through but it is not overpowering this time whereas the first time it was. RESOS - sound great but sound much louder so probably need volume tweaking in Workbench HD LESTER - sounds great but much louder so probably needs volume tweaking in Workbench HD STRAT - sounds great, not noticeable different from before, maybe a bit more subtle TELE - all sound great except for pos 1, bridge pu, which is too quiet, I would expect this to be louder and have more bite, but is it an accurate representation of their modelled TELE or is it a slight blip in the v2.0 install on my JTV59 and is fine for others? I may be able to tweak this to taste in Workbench HD unless it is a fault in my installed model - so maybe another flash reinstall is needed for this? SPECIAL - pos 1 is quitter than before but still usable, a little tweak in Workbench HD may be needed SEMI - quieter and less full bodied than v1.9, but perhaps this is how a 335 should sound, I don't know. It has more bite. Again volume can probably be adjusted in Workbench HD if needed. I am disappointed that the install process is not trouble free, and that there is no way of knowing if the update has worked completely successfully even if it tells you it has. However, I am now no longer greatly disappointed with the models, but it is too early to say whether I am overly impressed with the new versions, but they will probably grow on me and I may find that I can really hear the differences after a few weeks and will not be able to roll back to an ealrlier version. We will see ..... meanwhile ..... time to play!

Thanks clay-man - that is what I thought. I was just confused when anonyrat said he had adjusted the string levels on some models pre-HD.

Thanks very much!

This maybe a dumb question - but do you select the preamp and save it in the HD500 patch, and then when you stomp on that patch, do you then manually switch the topology on the DT25 to the one you want, then save the patch again on the HD500, and then when you swap to that patch in future does it remember to recall the topology you switched to? Or does it always recall the Line6 assigned topology for the preamp selected in the HD500 and you have to manually switch the topology on the DT25?