adagosto

I'll start with a confession...I'm a Stomp XL user and I'm still (sorta) in the mode of using my existing physical pedals and supplimenting with the Line 6 models. But lately I'm been experimenting with various combinations of distortions and amp models. So my question for you good folks is, what are your favorite combinations of models and what you use them for. What happens when you pair up a Teemah with a US Princess and set the gain a certain way and what would you use that tone for? And that's a simple combo....can anyone share their creative pairings. I think getting into this is where some of the magic might be with the Helix that I've just not tapped into yet (much). Thoughts??

Hi all, Can anyone confirm this... The Line 6 original amps like the Vetta for instance are in the Helix brain. Does that "amp model" actually represent the exact physical amp? If the Helix were paired with a similar speaker and speaker cabinet would the real Vetta amp and the Helix sound pretty close to each other?

Ok good, but which way would YOU expect things to be correct and sound the best? Amp model BEFORE the FX Loop L block?? I'm just curious to know what you think based on your experience. Many thanks! Adam

Yes both blocks are on during the test. Yes there is a different when moving the amp block left or right of the FX Loop L block, but only noticable on higher gain type amp models. I'm curious, what would you expect me to hear? And why do you say that this is not the proper way to use the 4CM? It's my understanding that some amp models will sound better routed into you physical amp's preamp and others might sound better into the power amp section. But then again, in the strictest definition of the 4CM, the design intent probably never was to introduce using amp models and the intent was to just use your own amp for tone but allow effects models to be place where you want them. In my case, I'm doing exactly that AND using physical effects pedals AND using models. I pretty much only use the AC30 and the Brit Plexi these days. Otherwise I'm getting my tone from the Origin Effects Revival Drive, a Joyo AC Tone pedal and a TC Spark. I'm down to only using one delay pedal for post effects. So I'm really curious what you would expect I'd hear given your test. Maybe I should upload an audio clip. Would that help you??

Ok that's what I thought... After testing it, here's my summary. On cleanish amps, the amp block can be placed on either side (right or left) of the FX Loop L block and both locations sound good. But, when I try this with higher gain amps, the amp block clearly sounds better in front of the FX Loop L block (so before location). I tried this on the WhoWatt 100, US Princess, Matcheless and the BritPlexi. Again, this question started and remains all about "Amp Model" location. This has nothing to do with effects like OD's distortion and delays....only the Amp block location relative to the FX Loop L block.

Ok I wish I knew you name other than Rd2rk. Anyway... Just for clarification I looked at your two presets and the "Amp After Loop" uses a "SEND L" block while the "Amp Before Loop" uses a "FX Loop L". So first off, I want to clarify with you was that on purpose or should they both be FX Loop L blocks? I think the later of the two in which case I can adjust that.

Rd2rk, I kinda disagree that I don't understand you. In my previous post I was ONLY talking about where to place an Amp block as in, before or after the FX Loop L or R blocks. I never spoke about other effects which you have now included here. And I do agree with you that the placement is important. In trying different locations of Amp blocks, I've found that some sound better before the FX Loop L Block while others sound better after. It's kinda unpredictable, so I just move it around and where it sounds good I leave it. Same is true for the Noise Gate block. Sometimes it goes in front of the amp block and sometimes after. As for effects placement like ODs and delay, that's a much easier affair.

I think this is helpful. Should be noted that Rd2rk drew this up for me (for us)....

Rd2rk, Yeah I think so... If I understand you correctly, it really doesn't matter where I place my FX Loop L/R blocks and it doesn't really matter where I place the amp blocks either. The trick is to simplify move them around and find where it sounds the best. No hard rules, just use your ears. ??? As for preamp models, again just try it and use your ears to find the best location and type for your particular rig. Is that right?

So where are we on this? Can anyone follow up on how to connect a Victory V4 to an HX Stomp? I'd like to change it a bit and simply connect it to an amp. How would that work? EDIT: Hold on a sec... speaking of over thinking things. In my case, I have the Stomp XL hooked up to my amp using the 4CM including a spliter out of the SEND. So I've got a TIP and RING. My RING side connects the external effects pedals that need to be placed after the amps preamp (my delay, chorus, reverb and EQ pedal). That RING signal path is routed back to the Stomp into the Return R connection. I use the FX Loop R Block to turn on the entire path or turn it all off. Anyway, it seems to me that if using a Victory V4 with the Stomp, all I need to do is place that pedal into the RING path as a normal pedal (in and out). There's no need to use the 4CM connections because the Stomp is already set up to do that. Just need to add it to the mix. Is that correct???

Can someone help me understand where amp models and amp preamps are supposed to be placed in the signal chain? But first, few things.... I'm using the 4CM. My FX Loop L when active enables my amp preamp to work (Mesa Boogie Express) and the FX Loop R, when active enables my external delay pedal. The way I typically set up my chain is like this: Block 1: Compressor, Block 2: 10-band EQ, block 3: Amp model, Block 4: FX Loop L, Block 5: Modulation, Block 6: FX Loop R, Block 7: Reverb. I'll also stick a Noise Gate block in there and move it around until I find 'a quiet place'. So my question is, where should I place my Amp block? Where should the FX Loop L/R blocks go? I've noticed that if I move the Amp block around to either side of each of the FX Blocks, it really doesn't change the tone. If I turn off the L FX Block, it will make most amp models a bit brighter sounding, but only by a little. Also, the "Preamp amp" blocks don't seem to sound good anywhere I put them. The manual says on page 34 under the preamp section, "...recommended when feeding the HX Stomp XL pedal into the power amp section of your favorite amplifier." Where exactly should I be feeding it?? They all sound thin and lifeless. They also lack low end. It doesn't matter where I put them either. Any guidance here would be great!! Just a note here. This sound really good how I have things, but I question if it's optimized and that I'm getting the best possible tone from the Helix into and thru my amp.

Hey zappazapper, Few things.... I went back to the original cable hookup. This is the one that has my pedals immediately after my guitar and into the Input L/mono. With what I have and the settings I have, the sound is excellent and predictable. I think a lot of my problem before was the combination of Line 6 pedals and amp models using in conjunction with my physical pedals. Some modeled pedals just don't sound good with my physical pedals while others sound excellent. I think I'm good now.....for now... LOL.

Ok. My fingers hurt I've been playing so much trying to figure this stuff out. Maybe that's my problem, I need to buy more gear, more often to get me to practice more.....I love that idea! Ok. I think I've got this thing understood now. For me a least the logic is this....if I want to use an amp model, avoid using my overdrive pedals. They don't seem to play nice with each other. But, if I'm going to use amp models with my physical chorus and delay pedal, the amp model settings have to be set just right. Not so much my delay pedal, but if the amp model gain section gets even a little high, like about 3.0, the chorus pedal starts to sound boomy. This could be more about my 2x12 speakers. Less gain than that, it's good. If I want to use my Mesa preamp with my physical pedals, that works great except additional modeled pedals are very particular. The Deluxe Comp for instance causes my TC Spark to sound terrible, but most of the legacy compressors sound really good. So.... -- Line 6 Amp model yes, physical drive pedals no, physical effects pedals and models yes. -- Mesa preamp yes, physical drive pedals yes, Line 6 front of amp pedals maybe, physical effects pedals and models yes. That's not a bad place to be!!!

Ok tested it out and I didn't care for it. Went back to the original cableing. I can say this for sure....the Stomp doesn't play nice with external pedals. It works technically, but not great. My Revival Drive does the best because it has gobs of tone sculpting ability. It seems that the Stomp has an effect of darkening the tone of physical pedals. I say that because in order to get the sound right when using the Revival Drive with the Stomp I need to brighten up the pedal. It works....but the other pedals I have just don't fair as well. So my take is sell the Stomp and get a Helix LT. If not just for the bigger screen. They are pretty close to the same price anyway. I'm disappointed, but I've got bigger problems than this one!!! The good news is, I can used the Stomp in a 4CM and get the job done. I do think there's more satisfaction our of my pedals, but for now, I think I just move on with it. HUGE THANKS to everyone in this forum for getting me straight!

I will try it out and let you know how I do. Thank you so much for everything.

Sorry my bad... Yes I mean "sent left" means it will be sent into the FX Loop L. Ok. Now that I've got that, what I'd to understand now is this...you mentioned the advantage to your suggested cable hookup method is that, "[you can] take advantage of the variable impedance control, which should help to make both your distortion pedals and your Mesa preamp sound better..." Do I need to do anything in the Stomp to do this or is this done automatically?

Ok.....here it goes..... It has to be the same as the other set up. So I would start with the compressor, distortion and boost, then the FX Loop L block. Everything to the left of the FX Loop L should get sucked up and sent left. Then everything after the FX Loop L block would be the modulation, delay and reverb. Block 1: compressor Block 2: distortion Block 3: Boost Block 4: FX Loop L Block 5: amp model Block 6: modulation Block 7: delay Block 8: reverb

Tube amps have two amps sections...you know what I mean...the preamp and the power amp. The preamp does almost all the coloring of the sound and the power amp amps it all up. That's where the Line 6 amp models often sound the best. Ok that makes sense. Nevermind.... Can you suggest a Stomp signal chain? I'm a little unsure of where the FX Loop L goes relative to other pedal models.

No, you can't do that. Your Revival Drive and your TC Spark are in a loop together. You can't put anything in between them and you can't change their order. You can only turn the loop on or off, or turn the individual pedals on or off with their own switches. Yes, you are correct, I didn't mean it that way. But, my point here is that the compressor, distortion, Revival Drive and TC Spark would all be routed to the preamp of the Mesa. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean a full Amp model, which includes power amp modeling, as opposed to a Preamp model? For clarification, I would want to use a Amp model in the power section. In other cases I might want a "pre amp model" but in that case I'd place it after the distortion model. But most often I'd use a Amp (no cab) model. You didn't mention that you wanted to use your Mesa preamp in your desired signal chain, so you don't need to route signal to it via the FX Loop Right block. In you cable layout, you described the Right Send from the Stomp gets routed to the Mesa input (front of amp). It would seem to me that you'd need to turn that on in the signal chain. No? As another point of clarify, the idea I have here is, if I can get the right tone from a pedal like the Revival Drive or TC Spark, more often than not, I would not use an amp model and let the Mesa preamp do the coloring. If on the other hand the Revival Drive wasn't cutting it, I'd opt for an amp model (most likely into the power amp section). In all cases I'd want to use my chorus and delay pedal (just not ever song). With the cables hooked up the way you described, could you please build the proper signal chain to program into the Stomp?

Ok I want to try this option today, but I'm cooking the turkey on the wood fire smoker, so I'm going to be busy! But, I will re-route the cables but I want to be absolutely clear on how to build the signal chain in the Stomp. Remember this is where I get confused.....Let's assume this is the intended signal chain: compressor, Revival Drive pedal, distortion, TC Spark pedal, [amp], modulation, Delay, Reverb. To build the Stomp path: Block 1: compressor (Line 6 model) Block 2: distortion (Line 6 model) Block 3: FX Loop L (At this point, the compressor, distortion and two physical pedals are working together) Block 4: amp model (Line 6) into power amp Block 5: modulation (Line 6 model) Block 6: delay (Line 6 model) Block 7: reverb (Line 6 model) Block 8: FX Loop R Medusa Chorus and Vapor Trail Delay pedals always active no block needed. This would also result in a situation where the Reverb is always going to be before the Medusa and Vapor Trail. That's not the best, but let's see (hear) how it sounds.... Is this the correct setup?

In this case EVERYTHING is in front of my amp going into the preamp, right? So this is a totally different way of connecting up a 4CM then? I don't follow how I'd set up the signal path in the Stomp to direct distortions/drives/preamps into the Mesa front input. Nor the way to control the chorus and Delay physical pedals. This sounds interesting to me..... Yeah if I did this I would not use any pedals at all. 100% Helix at that point. Would I still use the 4CM to direct sounds to their proper place with the LT? I think the Floor is overkill for me. I'm not hellbent on using my pedals. I'm more hellbent on finding really good tone. I don't fully understand #2 especially in how I'd set up the Stomp signal chain. But remember how that went!! It was like pulliy teeth!! Maybe I'll be quicker next time :)

zappazapper, I think you're right. The frustrating thing is, I got the Stomp XL specifically to integrate with my existing pedals when I could have just gone with the Helix LT. Now I'm going to want to sell the XL and get an LT. If I can't use my pedals or don't really need them, then why have an XL? I'd rather have the LT and be able to see the screen!!! Ok, again you have been hugely helpful. All of you have been very helpful to me. Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving!!

zappazapper, After using the 4CM property over the past few days, I've noticed that the two physical drive pedals I have before the Stomp don't sound as good as compared to when the Stomp is bypassed. If I bypass the Stomp they sound perfect. Is this the intended way for physical pedals to be used BEFORE the Stomp? Guitar > Revival Drive > TC Spark Booster > Stomp Input L/Mono. There is definitely some tone suck and the Spark has definitely lost some....Spark. Is this normal? I can see that being the case because I'm trying to use an anolog pedal to drive a digital mult-fx unit....but IDK. Also, can you explain where those pedals are being routed to? It seems to me that considering they are input into L/Mono, would they be output via L/Mono. If so, this would make sense why they sound different and weaker. Then, is there any merit in moving those two pedals to the SEND TIP line that feeds the front of the amp? By placing them in that line, would that change things up? Have not tried that. I think someone said this is wrong, but still wanted to ask you! Thoughts?

Wow. Good job to you for coaching me through this.

Dude, we need to meet so I can take you to dinner!! Alright, I think I'm starting to understand how this works. In my brain, I was completely opposite of how it works and that's made this so painful! So what I have now is a compressor, boost and distortion all followed by the FX Loop L. Btw, this all sounds correct. If I turn off the FX Loop L it doesn't sound good. Then, everything after the FX Loop L is directed to the power amp section including a modulation, delay and reverb. This all sounds right to my ear, but I'm pretty screwed up right now. Ok as for the FX Loop R, I add that after my Delay block and before the reverb block. This turns on the two physical pedals I have connected. Without the Loop R, those pedals don't work. How does this sound?