zappazapper

4CM involves connecting the FX send of your Helix to the front panel input of your amp, which will undoubtedly expect an "instrument level" signal. Although many users seem satisfied with setting the FX send on the Helix to "INST", I use a reamp box with the Helix set to "LINE" because the difference between "instrument level" and "line level" is not only voltage level but also impedance, and I've never seen a definitive answer as to whether the "INST" setting affects the impedance of the signal as well as the signal voltage, or just the voltage. From there, yes, the FX send on your amp should output line level, and the FX return should also expect a line level signal.

Can you post some before and after audio clips? Any words you use are never going to fully describe the phenomenon you're experiencing. Maybe post your preset too.

As @rd2rk mentioned, however, it would be a waste of the split, which you might need for other things.

OK, let's not ruin a fulfilling discussion on musical equipment by contaminating it with the poison that is American politics, please...

It's not really your place to judge whether the things that other people talk about on this forum are pointless or not. Nobody is asking you to discuss a topic you're not interested in, but you're asking us to not talk about it because it's something YOU'RE not interested in. Wouldn't it be easier to just not participate in this discussion? How many times do I have to concede to your point that it's unlikely that L6 would be interested in such a thing before we can just have a theoretical discussion on the matter? Does it hurt anybody to have a discussion on the merits of an idea that is unlikely to come to fruition anyway? Again, I don't understand why you can't just find something that you're actually interested in and talk about that. Wouldn't that be nice...

Ha. Ya I'm fine. It's not a matter of me not getting something I want (this wouldn't even be at the top of my list), it's the type of discourse that goes on around here sometimes. This specific thread is intended to be a place where ideas are expressed and the merits discussed, and there are some users on this forum whose only ammunition in such a discussion is to say "No. That's not the way I do it. Stop talking about things I'm not interested in." He made up his mind that such a plugin isn't something that interests him, and fair enough, but can't the rest of us discuss the matter without every point being responded to with "Nope. Helix Native"? It's not even what we're talking about.

Ya I've mentioned the idea of a VST Wrapper block on here before. The consensus, like a lot of things around here (ahem), was that it's a great idea and that it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of ever happening. Reaper evolved from a pet project from the guy that created Winamp after he sold out to AOL. JSFX (short for "Jesussonic") was originally created for the purpose of making a Linux-based guitar FX rig which would enable users to program their own effects modules. They eventually decided that hardware wasn't the business they wanted to be in and that an audio effects programming language was too specific, so they created Reaper essentially as a home for JSFX. And Reaper itself operates on a completely different model than any other DAW, where a lot of the features of the program are actually extensions written by users. Of course, it's a lot easier to do that on software written for general-purpose computers as opposed to a purpose-built unit like the Helix, and also there's a big difference between a system designed for live performance vs for recording. If a recording app has a bug, theoretically there's some time to get online and have the issue addressed (and they are quite responsive to bug reports and feature requests - a few of my suggestions have made it into the changelog) before you have to get the final mix out. If your live rig has a bug, you have to live with it in the moment, which could be in front of thousands of people. So I don't blame L6 for keeping it closed and slow and subject to a boat load of testing. But once it goes EOL, who knows. Would it be in their interests to release it? Do they have enough faith in their customer base's enthusiasm for their next generation product? Does that even matter? It's like a lot of things around here (ahem) - great idea, but probably not gonna happen.

I agree with you also, Phil. I don't see it happening either. But I distinctly recall reading DI say he wanted any and all ideas expressed in this discussion forum and on Ideascale, so that's what we're doing. And "Native does that" is a perfectly reasonable response, once. After that it's pointless. Like, we get it. Can we just discuss the merits of THIS idea? Because it's like someone asking how to install a turbocharger in their car and the response being "why not just take the bus? It's only $3." I mean, you're right, but that's not what we're talking about.

Again, you're talking about another product than the one the OP owns. Listen, I bought Native myself because it was the right decision for me, but if a hardware unit owner doesn't feel like he should have to buy a plugin to do what his hardware unit is supposed to do, then I think that's reasonable. And I think that initiating a discussion on possible ways to make using that hardware unit more functional, especially in a thread dedicated to discussions on ways to make the unit more functional, is also reasonable. And if it makes more sense to you to use a plugin instead of the hardware unit you bought, then I think that's reasonable too. But what I don't think is reasonable is repeatedly trying to shut down discussion (on a discussion forum, no less) by suggesting that the only solution that can ever exist is buying a completely different product. This discussion never was and never will be about Helix Native. We all know what Helix Native does. We're talking about something else. It doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that appeals to you. Fair enough, but just go find something to talk about that is interesting to you then. Nobody's telling you to use a plugin to control your Helix and nobody's telling you to stop using Native, so stop telling everybody not to come up with new ideas on how to do what THEY want. I'm here talking about it because it's something I want. ME. MEEEE. Not you. Me.

Ha. Listen. You see this all the time, proprietary software being released into the public domain and developed by users and hobbyists. At some point L6 is going to abandon the Helix. Maybe we should start the campaign now.

Nothing wrong with it. But sorting through implementation tables can be somewhat tiresome. A plugin that handles all that for you would just make the whole process that much easier. Why not take advantage of EVERYTHING that modern technology offers us, instead of just "accurate amp modeling". Why not also "streamlined automation"?

Once you get over 50, the next 8950 are easy...

It's not here. I hold you personally responsible. Yep.

Well then, let me take the time to let you know how this forum works. See that little green "+49" beside my name? I got those by people hitting the "like" button on my comments. So if you think I helped you out, you can show your appreciation by hitting the "like" button on my comment. Then I'll have a +50, and then those with +49 or less will cower in shame before my majesty and power. Mwah-ha-ha!!

Latest only. Make sure you update Helix Edit first, or you'll have problems later.

Cute comeback, but I've had the cake being described and it's quite tasty, thank you. https://lexiconpro.com/en/products/mx200

Again, I'm sure there's work involved, I'm not denying that. I'm talking about the concept - it's not that ridiculous as it's being made out to be.

That would be my vote XD But ya, I have absolutely no expectation that this would ever get done. I'm not trying to make a case that you and everybody else should vote for it, I was just chiming in on the idea that this was somehow nonsense, when I own a piece of equipment that works exactly how the OP was describing and is an essential part of my workflow. I would totally use a Helix Edit plugin, even though I own Native and even though I use the hardware unit to great effect without a plugin. I'm just saying it makes more sense to me because I've actually used a hardware unit like this and maybe those of you who haven't are having a hard time seeing the benefits.

Again, that solution assumes that the user owns Native. Native is another product that costs money, even if it is discounted for owners of a hardware unit. Helix Edit is something that is available for free for anyone who owns a hardware unit, and I don't think it's that much of a stretch that there be a VST version of it for full integration with a DAW, especially since all the marketing literature for the hardware units focus to some degree on its use as a full-featured recording/reamping tool, not simply as a dongle for Native or a prerequisite for a discount.

A pitch shifter will inherently create more artifacts the further from unison it goes. Perfect, artifact-free pitch shifting does not exist, even in the monophonic realm.

By the way, rizzy, I noticed that I was the only one that had voted for your Ideascale, which means you didn't even vote for it yourself. Might wanna do that XD

When most people buy a cell phone, they buy it to have a phone to make phone calls. But then you see that there's Google Maps and you use it even though you didn't ask for it and you never thought you'd need it. I think if they made such a plugin that controls a Helix hardware unit, you'd be surprised by how many people start using it. I bought my Lexicon for live use. Never planned on using it for recording because it would be a hassle keeping track of settings. But then I found out that there was a plugin that would automatically recall settings on the unit upon project load, and it became a regular part of my workflow. The same thing could happen with such a plugin. Any BTW, I don't think such a plugin would be a major investment in man hours. They've already done the bulk of the work developing Edit and Native. I'm not saying it would take A DAY but it's essentially just a melding of the two.

Well, I have no doubt that the person most responsible for developing the Helix Native plugin would have some sort of obscenely powerful computer at his disposal for the purpose of testing and removing DSP headroom from the equation when troubleshooting problems. And what are his 20 instances doing? Even a far below average computer can run 20, 50, 100 instances of a plugin that isn't doing anything. His computer might be able to run 20 instances of Native, each with Poly Capo and 2 Amp/Cab blocks, but mine certainly can't. Mine could probably run 100 instances of Native with just a Pan block though. As for the likelihood of such a plugin ever actually being made, sure, it probably won't happen. But I thought this thread was for Ideascale submissions, and you're trying to give him a workaround. DI said he wants any and all ideas to be submitted, and this is the place for them, along with Ideascale. You made your point that there are options available to essentially achieve the same thing (there's more than one way to bake a cake), but his suggestion isn't nonsense, especially when your solution involves a $99 purchase. Sorry, not everybody has $99 to spend on music gear, even when they just spent $2000 on music gear. I think the point is, I just spent $2000 (or whatever he spent), do you think it's possible to make it so that I can use the thing I bought without having to spend another $99, which doesn't actually use the thing I bought anyway? Your workaround suggestion is fair but I think his suggestion is also fair.

I'll chime in here and say that I agree with rizzy. It's not simply about the additional cost. Native takes up DSP headroom in your recording app. Freeing up DSP is one of the main reasons why using outboard gear is still part of the typical workflow in the age of plugins. For example, I have a outboard Lexicon unit that I use all the time because it saves me a bit of DSP headroom, and it has a VST plugin that does nothing but control the Lexicon so that its settings can be recalled when I load up a project, and so I can automate it. It's not a foreign or new concept (I bought it over a decade ago), and yes, there are Lexicon plugins that are available, and that I have, and use all the time, but I still use the hardware unit in almost every project because it allows me to use DSP headroom elsewhere (often for Lexicon VSTs). And yes, I have Helix Native, and use it often, but if there was a VST plugin that could be used to just control my LT, then I could fully integrate my LT into my recording workflow the same way I do with the Lexicon. As it stands now, the LT is a great tool for tracking, and can certainly be used during the mixdown phase as long as you're mindful of saving your presets, but if there was a VST that just controlled the LT, then it would just automatically recall the right settings when I load up the project. I'm all for it.

That assumes that the solution, then, is to turn the Bass parameter up. I doubt that would work. A picture, or in this case, an audio clip, is worth a thousand words. "It sounds like THIS. I want it to sound like THIS." With that kind of context-specific information, then we can really begin to offer help.