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diggerbarnz

fence sitting

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wondering IF I should "pull the trigger" & get DT25 or ANY tube amp OR just stick w/running my JTV's & 500 thru my solid state Fender DSP FM212...

I just dunno

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Don't sit on the fence too long your AZO might hurt, lol. What's funny is I was having trouble naming music I just made and before I saw this thread I just named it "My AZO Hurtz".

 

Nothing like a tube Amp Man!! I went and got the DT50, glad I did, but I still enjoy using my Spider Jam and other amps.

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Have you considered a Stagesource speaker instead of an amp? Set your Hd500 to Studio mode and go FRFR. Hassle free acoustic and electric guitar sounds.

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I already run FRFR thru my bose L1 which is especially sweet for the acoustics - but I don't gig w/bose(strictly 4 solo act) but run thru the Fender solid state w/bandfor gigs &/acoustic thru PA ...just wondering if I'm missing anything :)

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I have the DT25 head/cab and a pair of L3T's (for the PA). I messed around a bit with my EGtr, PODHD500 and the L3T's but I feel the better sound (for me at least) is from the DT25 Head and a couple cabs. I know a lot of folks like the FRFR approach but for me it is more frequency range than an electric guitar requires and I prefer the old fashioned grunge of a basic guitar amp pushed through some tubes. It is kind of like fishing off a yacht when all you really need is a little boat with an outboard. However that being said, for an "acoustic group" I have, the L3T's work perfect and we all play through them without guitar amps.

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I already run FRFR thru my bose L1 which is especially sweet for the acoustics - but I don't gig w/bose(strictly 4 solo act) but run thru the Fender solid state w/bandfor gigs &/acoustic thru PA ...just wondering if I'm missing anything :)

 

I don't think your missing too much if your already gigging successfully with what you have. If you want to get new equipment it should be that you want to get it. If you get the chance go find a store that has an amp you think you want and then go an try it out for a while.

 

Still there's nothing like a tube amp, lol. Rock On!!

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I already run FRFR thru my bose L1 which is especially sweet for the acoustics - but I don't gig w/bose(strictly 4 solo act) but run thru the Fender solid state w/bandfor gigs &/acoustic thru PA ...just wondering if I'm missing anything :)

 

I recently tried the Behringer GMX212 which is almost a duplicate of the FM 212 DSP... I tried to like it but it was no contest with the DT25.  The DT25 is sonically in a different league.  I sent the GMX back.  I have the head and a 2x12 cab  but its a PITA to drag around.  Still, the sound is amazing...  

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yeah - I should have mentioned I was after the combo & concerned whether I'd get enough volume 4 stage - as well as sonics I'd like to lighten the load somewhat - bud from my old band has same line - "nuthin like tube man" - I played thru a custom built unit today, although I was being conservative as it's owner suffers migraines & although it's gorgeous lookin & sounding...he really doesn't wanna sell it - made out of ash & I believe it's 25w

would show pic but I cant figure out how lol

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yeah - I should have mentioned I was after the combo & concerned whether I'd get enough volume 4 stage - as well as sonics I'd like to lighten the load somewhat

 

The combo will work great and its plenty loud.  You can also take the direct out from the DT to the board instead of micing the amp and it is much better...  I really should have gotten the combo...

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I play the DT25 combo and yet to find a stage this wasn't loud enough for, even outside. I've did the FRFR thing and while it is better for the acoustic tones, the DT blows away the FRFR system (IMO) on the modelled tones. Once you hook the PODs to some real tubes the sound takes a bit warm fuller sound IMO. I'm with you buddy, gotta have some tubes in the mix.

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OK -fell off the fence - drove thru some ugly weather to town & got er done - now I can't try it out....dinner to "attend" lol

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now..HOW to hook it up...I p/u a link cable - I normally run the VDI (1/4 from axe runs to voicelive & need it to stay that way) - guess I'll be readin instead of playing later

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yeah - I should have mentioned I was after the combo & concerned whether I'd get enough volume 4 stage 

 

The DT25 combo is crazy loud

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OR just stick w/running my JTV's & 500 thru my solid state Fender DSP FM212...

 

 

Bought my HD500 in 2010; bought my DT25 in Feb/March 2014, earlier this year. I struggled for a long time trying to get the HD500 to work when I was jamming with other musicians, especially if the other guitarist has a tube amp, or if the drummer rocks out.. Sounds fantastic playing solo no matter what I put it through, but I always had issues (pre DT25) at volume.  Mostly used these older (early 1980's) solid state Paul Rivera designed Fender CBS 1x12 combos; (and the Fender Yale reverb) run the HD500 in 'studio/direct' and send the 1/4" mono to the amps FX return, and run XLRs to the main mix / pa / monitors, etc.

 

Then I bought a DT25. WOW! Major difference. I don't bother with studio/direct at rehearsals or gigs anymore. I did have to reprogram my concept of patch building; which in many ways makes everything WAY easier. Choose a PRE amp model, you don't need to worry about choosing mic models. Run the HD500 in combo/poweramp (it automatically goes to that output mode when you use the Line6Link to the DT25). And that amp is LOUD. Now, I have zero problems being loud enough - most recently they told me I was too loud, and I never have to max any of the dials to get there.

 

The key distinction with the DT amps, is the Bogner switching circuitry, it's pretty awesome. The HD500 amp models already sound good as is, but I do prefer that sound of the guitar amp vs the studio control room version (studio/direct = mic modeling with full amp models). Instead I just use the XLR out from the DT25 to the main mixer, and it sounds stellar. Nice and clean, in total isolation from the rest of the band, and it's mic level not line level, so mimics the volume of a guitar amp mic'd, which will play nice with stage snakes and boards expecting that signal stretgth, rather than line level.

 

A big investment, so take the time to read - and especially to go play a couple. I was going to get the DT50 at first, and decided the DT25 was all I needed. Looked at the closed back extension cab + head vs combo, went with the combo. Try them out, see what sounds right to you. Ideally, connect your HD500 to a DT amp, with a Line6Link, and set up the patches the way you would - and use the full volume mode. The low volume mode is awesome, but it's just doing power amp digital modeling, which is what the HD500 already does. You want to switch from pentode to triode, and hear actual analog tube amp circuitry changes, and mess with the typologies, class A, A/B, etc.

 

As far as gear goes, the HD500 + DT amp is the only thing out there (so far) that does what those two pieces of gear can do together.

Of course, that caused me a major G.A.S. attack, and I bought a JTV59 shortly after I bought the DT25. Those three together are a lot of fun, powerful stuff.

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wow - Col.Forbin detail...love it thanks - I just couldn't wait & plugged straight in w/69 - uhhhh, yeah there's sumthin bout tubes wow - will delve into reading tonight - will have to redo alotta my patches I'm sure

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wow - Col.Forbin detail...love it thanks - I just couldn't wait & plugged straight in w/69 - uhhhh, yeah there's sumthin bout tubes wow - will delve into reading tonight - will have to redo alotta my patches I'm sure

 

The basic concept is the Line6 side of the equation provides digital preamps and the digital control. The Bogner team provides the poweramp and the analog switching. There is really not a way to bypass the digital preamps per se, but for me that's not a big deal, they all sound stellar! In terms of the latest DT firmware, they made it so you can choose to load 8 variations directly onto the DT25/50 from the entire line of HD500 amp models; as is it comes loaded with four options. When using an HD500 with Line6Link, you have access to the entire line of amp models - in this specific case, the entire list of HD preamp models.

 

The thing I like, is how the two devices communicate - the Line6Link is an AES/EBU digital two-way connection (you can use a standard XLR cable, I just happened to get picky and upgrade to proper digital cables, won't impact too much, matters more for long cable runs, or using multiple DT's chained together)

 

So, you have a patch, you make an adjustment to volume, or gain, or treble by turning the knob on the DT, and it updates that value on the HD500. Nice interaction there. Also, the XLR out from the DT is what they are calling 'transformer tapped' or some jargon like that, which to me, means your XLR DI signal to the board / mix / recording, etc. is getting the benefit of the Bogner portion of the amp - the actual analog tube tones.

 

I haven't tried comparing the DT XLR signal to a mic on the DT at the same time, might do that next time I jam with the guys; using the M20d I multitrack record everything, mix some of it down later. It's helpful to hear what signals sound like in their "raw" form. It has been quite useful for me, to dial in tones, play through rehearsal, then go back and be able to hear what those tones sound like coming through the XLR DI.

 

Some folks have had issues level balancing their patches, and the XLR DI out from the DT can swing around in volume as a result - not sure why, probably due to the volume differences in the actual amp models. You can dial in equal preamp volumes, but then sending those into different poweramp becomes the actual volume you hear in the speaker. Tiny Fender not as loud as huge Marshall stack. It's the power amp portion that makes that volume leap, and since the XLR is tied to that portion of the amp, it does make sense that you would hear volume differences, though people are also saying they have difference between the DI signal vs the speaker, which I don't quite understand.

 

I tend to use a relatively simple palette of amp models, which all have relatively similar volume / poweramp structures, though going from the Plexi to any of the Fender models, definitely requires some tweaking!

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The basic concept is the Line6 side of the equation provides digital preamps and the digital control. The Bogner team provides the poweramp and the analog switching. There is really not a way to bypass the digital preamps per se, but for me that's not a big deal, they all sound stellar! In terms of the latest DT firmware, they made it so you can choose to load 8 variations directly onto the DT25/50 from the entire line of HD500 amp models; as is it comes loaded with four options. When using an HD500 with Line6Link, you have access to the entire line of amp models - in this specific case, the entire list of HD preamp models.

 

The thing I like, is how the two devices communicate - the Line6Link is an AES/EBU digital two-way connection (you can use a standard XLR cable, I just happened to get picky and upgrade to proper digital cables, won't impact too much, matters more for long cable runs, or using multiple DT's chained together)

 

So, you have a patch, you make an adjustment to volume, or gain, or treble by turning the knob on the DT, and it updates that value on the HD500. Nice interaction there. Also, the XLR out from the DT is what they are calling 'transformer tapped' or some jargon like that, which to me, means your XLR DI signal to the board / mix / recording, etc. is getting the benefit of the Bogner portion of the amp - the actual analog tube tones.

 

I haven't tried comparing the DT XLR signal to a mic on the DT at the same time, might do that next time I jam with the guys; using the M20d I multitrack record everything, mix some of it down later. It's helpful to hear what signals sound like in their "raw" form. It has been quite useful for me, to dial in tones, play through rehearsal, then go back and be able to hear what those tones sound like coming through the XLR DI.

 

Some folks have had issues level balancing their patches, and the XLR DI out from the DT can swing around in volume as a result - not sure why, probably due to the volume differences in the actual amp models. You can dial in equal preamp volumes, but then sending those into different poweramp becomes the actual volume you hear in the speaker. Tiny Fender not as loud as huge Marshall stack. It's the power amp portion that makes that volume leap, and since the XLR is tied to that portion of the amp, it does make sense that you would hear volume differences, though people are also saying they have difference between the DI signal vs the speaker, which I don't quite understand.

 

I tend to use a relatively simple palette of amp models, which all have relatively similar volume / poweramp structures, though going from the Plexi to any of the Fender models, definitely requires some tweaking!

This is good advice and a good description of how I feel about this combination.

 

I actually did an A/B test with a Marshall Plexi recently against my DT50 in P75 and Brit 800 modes and I can tell you the difference was negligible and the whole time I was thinking how lucky I was to have the integration of my Pod HD400 to add in pedals/effects or dial in a completely different tone altogether in just one tap of another preset. 

 

I've had some great gear over the years and this rig absolutely holds a candle to ANY of them. 

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I'm wondering if I should even risk/bother w/update...then again it's 6AM & haven't had  a coffee yet so I'm wondering alot

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When they say tones adjusted via DT are transmitted automatically to POD....does that mean you DON'T have to press save on pod?

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I'm wondering if I should even risk/bother w/update...then again it's 6AM & haven't had  a coffee yet so I'm wondering alot

If you had bought it new I would maybe say no big deal but you got it used and you don't know what the last guy loaded up in there.  Reflash to the latest firmware with the monkey and then load up the amps/cabs/reverbs YOU want inside... and get some coffee...

 

does that mean you DON'T have to press save on pod?    No, you would still have to save the changes if you want to keep them.

 

Coffee-Cat_2.jpg

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lol - yeah that's me! 3rd coffee - 1 over my limit....bought amp new, there's 2 L&M stores in Winnipeg but this location has my favourite luthier who was looking @ string roll-off on 69 - other than this amp, they had no variaxs there...but I DID get extra VDI & a link cable there

Guess I'll use my midisport (been years) & try update

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re....does amp have to be on for update?

 

I updated my DT50 with it on in stby. Successfully.

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frequency is HUGE on this - I don't KNOW if I owned a tube amp as a kid or not (alotta blurriness!)

Now that I've done the update, am  unsure HOW to get to the original 4 classic/chime etc...good thing wife spends alotta time outside though

Next thing is to hook up pod500...gonna have to do some stuff in edit 1st to simplify it a bit(another setlist)

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Yeah, I think I spent hours when I first paired the HD500 and DT25 just auditioning all the amp models (PRE versions) with no other effects.

Such a cool partnership between Bogner and Line6. SImilar to the manner in which they paired the Variax tech with the James Tyler guitars.

A well done symbiotic relationship in both cases

  • Upvote 1

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dunno where I'm going wrong - I plugged in link cable & I have no sound (using strictly VDI to pod & link from there...maybe page 9/10 of setup screen on 500??

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sorry Brazzy - got it solved....other end of VDI must be plugged in a s well  :wacko: invasion of the brain farts

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No Problem. I just saw the other thread LOL, Glad you got it going!!! :D No one is exempt from theses sorts of problems.

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