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milesargall

Oh man.... Here we go again.... Dt vs Hd500. No comparison in tone....

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Ive got a Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister that is set up as my go to amp in the lounge (cause it looks great) and a brand new mini Marshall JVM that I'm fooling around with a lot.

 

So the Line 6 2/500 line up hasn't seen the light of day for a while.

 

I had band camp today; so last week I pulled it all out and tweeked a few tones with The L6 Link set up.

My main distortion sound is an Angel something with a V30 cab.  I've also got a treadplate for heavier, scooped fatter stuff.

 

So; I'm happy with my tones at loud bedroom level - but playing at rehearsal volumes it was unusable.  Everything went fuzzy; thin, digital and gritty.  Bang your head against the wall stuff - and my band asking the drummer to play louder to drown me out.

 

But I unplug it all and play at that volume through the DT (Channel IV) and itd back to smooth; tight; thick creamy and fat.

 

Ok.  I can't type WTF here because I'm a guitarist and a gentleman - so what thuf HUCK gives????

 

Any suggestions???

 

As soon as I use the POD for flexibility I lose the tone of the DT.

 

Help.....

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Sounds like a little more time tweaking at volume is what you need. It takes time to get it "right" but once you do you will know how to do it every time. I usually add a graphic eq in my chain near the end to adjust the overall tone. It's all in there man, just keep digging!

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Theres been many discussions on this topic. Some players say there is NO difference and some say there IS a difference when you compare the DT standalone verses the DT/HDxxx combination.

 

Until I purchased a high quality XLR for the L6 link, I too thought for a while there was an advantage to using the DT head standalone but I recently revisited the exercise using a high quality cable and there most defiantly is no perceivable difference in tone to my ears. The benefit of course is being able to run the HDxxx for PRE/POST effects as you would already know.

 

Keep in mind there are cabinet simulations running with the factory models in the DT so there will be some differences straight away depending on what cabinet modelling (if any) you have on the HD preset. Using DT Customiser with my iPhone, I'm able to bypass any cabinet models in my DT and when I set the same on the Pod to A/B, there is no difference. 

 

With a little research you can really unlock the potential in this rig and its really only as complicated or as simple as you want it to be. There is no disadvantage to running the above in either format rather it just elands your options depending on what works for each individual. 

 

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it's not a simply plugin and it works scenario....

make sure you check your inputs for example... the pod by default will double your input up because of it's dual pathways...

also keep in mind that the DT amps DO emulate cabs in the default model... so if you disable cabs... you won't match... etc etc...

they will match up... if you take the time to sort it out....

if you just plug up one day and expect it to match... no... won't happen.

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Lately I have been happy with what I am hearing in recordings off the DT XLR DI out, using the HD500 in link mode to it.

I still struggle with making patches at home, and getting volume consistency at louder rehearsal volumes..

 

I had to narrow my approach to things.

That, and as mentioned above, take time to sort out what the HD500 does to process your guitar vs what the DT25 does.

As mentioned, the HD500 is working in a doubling mode, when inputs are set a certain way. That, and the entire signal chain is "dual stereo" if you are using any two amp model patches. This all changes when using any given mono effect both before and after. Such as, sums to mono when going through a noise gate effect. If you put this before the amp model and only use stereo effects after the amp model, the signal chain is stereo until it is summed to mono going to the DT25. The looper is also mono. If you have a mono effect after the amp model, it sums to mono. I often use a mono effect or two (EQ, comp, etc) after the amp model, then go to stereo effects, into the stereo effects loop to an M13, back to the HD500 then mono link to the DT25.

 

Sometimes, the stereo effects ended up causing more trouble than they were worth, and even the drummer told me to turn down! *(along with everyone else in the room..) And the DT is only 25 watts; they were having trouble hearing the 40watt Fender tweed that my buddy plays through over me, go figure..)

 

So, yeah. Take a look at what is happening with the HD500 processing; try something as simple as only the amp model, and figure out what you need to do to make it sound closer to the DT stand alone. Perhaps things like panning left/right in the mixer block, or making sure to assign the inputs to different sources. Mess with the input pad and the mixer block levels - maybe too loud or not loud enough?>

 

Also - are you using the FULL amp models, or the PRE amp models? I have been using the PRE only when going to the DT and it helps to a certain extent.
 

Also, it's a bit dated, but still has much relevant info, check out the MeAmBobbo guide:

 

http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/

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And would anyone have a suggestion of what the settings are for the DT Channel IV so as to emulate them in the POD????

The only way to be  sure is to hookup your midi to the DT and computer and use DT Edit to see exactly what amp model is stored there and how it is set up.  Then if you load the exact same pre model in the POD and use the default cab and DEP all you have to do is set your tone stack and drive and you should be good to go.

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Couple of thoughts:

I've read somewhere and it' does seem true to me that the louder the amp the more the human ear preceives the bass part of the signal. I always wondered with the old school players wanted those treble boosters but based on the levels that had to play at, it makes more sense.

 

Playing the bedroom by yourself and full band is completely different scenerio. By yourself you do have the full frequency range to work with. In a full band you have to give room to other instruments. If you have Bass, Drums and Vocal to content with and not clash against. It's more important on how the entire band sounds that it is how one insturment sounds. The band must function as unit. And if you have another or other guitarist to deal with it can change not only how you sound but what notes/chords and vociings you play.

 

IMO, the scooped mid sound is overrated! If you want to cut thought a full band you need some mids in the sound. One of the most loved distrostion pedals if the Ibanez Tube screamer. It has a huge mid boost sound too it. Works great for cutting thought with leads and turning it off to disappear a bit into the mix for rhythm. Most of the metal bands I've heard that use the scooped mid tones also dont' feature the bass guitar very much. Part of the reason is the gutiar is covered most of the bass terrirory. Bass gutiar in some heavy music kind of holds the very bottom end and a bit of clarity to the gutiar sounds, which is why those style bass lines often mimic the rhytm guitar line. 

 

In the old days with a array of pedals and amp, if the settng didn't sound good in the room at a given volume then you turned some knobs to make it better. The POD has the same ability. They put knobs on the POD for a reason. Sure it's a bit harder to do but the nice part is you can hit SAVE and they are saved, no remembering what that killer tone you go last time was. The DT amps also feature a real tube power section and those tubes sound different depending on how hard they pushed.  That is the case for setting up your tones at stage volume. You might have to get some where you can crank it that loud by yourself and not blow you ears out to do that, otherwise, do the best you can and then try to make some adjustments on the fly when you rehersing with the full band.

 

Lastly, if I actually heard anyone for my band ask someone to play louder, for the sole purpose of drowning any one member of the band out. Then I would give them a ear full about being a professional and maybe worst. It's okay in my group to be honest with each other and tell someone that part, performance, tone, etc... sucks. Nothing would get fixed without some brutal honestly. But it's not okay to just try to cover up we don't like. It's not okay to be passive aggresive and try to drown out someone. If something is wrong of memebers have a difference of opionon on ANY aspect of piece then it needs to be talked out.  A band succeeds or fails as a unit. Each memeber has a part to play and if a member isn't happy with their role then maybe they are not the right person for that role.... Okay off my soap box now, that statement bothered me.

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Most of the metal bands I've heard that use the scooped mid tones also dont' feature the bass guitar very much. Part of the reason is the gutiar is covered most of the bass terrirory. Bass gutiar in some heavy music kind of holds the very bottom end and a bit of clarity to the gutiar sounds, which is why those style bass lines often mimic the rhytm guitar line. 

 

 

 

Yup! Reminds me of Metallica 'And Justice For All'; the bass is not even in the mix, it's all completely submerged with the low end of Hetfield's guitar parts.

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Thanks for all the replies guys - finally replying on Chrissy eve - so Merry Christmas. Hope everyone gets their favourite Guitar; Amp; Pedal off Santa.

I've asked for some talent.

 

I want to be clear I'm not talking EQ or 'tone'

I'm talking 'sound'

 

The DT down low or the same settings /EQ with the band sound the same.

 

The pod (to me) suddenly sounded super digital and fuzzy - not fat; after sounding like the channel IV of the DT at lower volumes.

 

I'm sticking with the DT. Just bought an MI AUDIO crunch box for my AC DC and Angels um, crunch sounds and a Boost N Buff to run through the loop for solo boosts.

 

Thanks to Line 6 for realising not everyone will run a pod and gave us 'standard' options on the amp. Foot switch; effects loop etc.

Actually; whilst I think of it - isn't there an update option to give you all four channels? Is there a pedal that gives you access to this once updated???

 

Cheers all.

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it's a 2 channel amp....

the 4 topologies are not channels.

 

Actually; whilst I think of it - isn't there an update option to give you all four channels? Is there a pedal that gives you access to this once updated???

Cheers all.

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Yep! I'm starting to realize that as I use my DT50 and POD together and separately. But, I've got a lot of ground to cover in order to get my knowledge level up there. I know some folks don't like tweaking with these things as they think it detracts from guitar playing but personally, I think it makes you more knowledgeable about how different amps and different effects work (or don't) so that you can get closer to whatever sound you like.

 

So, everybody relax, and keep on rockin'.

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I also own a POD500x and a DT25 and when connected with L6 link. The high gain channels sound weak and digital compared to the DT alone. :(

 

I have not updated my firmware on the dt25, maybe it will help or i will loose the cool sound of the dt25 as it is now ?.

 

Dosn`t anyone have 4 presets for the pod500x to match the DT25 in sound ?

 

Btw my tubes had to be changed and my guitar store changed them to EL34 JJ tubes instead of EL84 stock tubes. And i must say i prefered the stock EL84 as they just sounded better with high gain stuff but the el34 are better with the clean channels.

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Btw my tubes had to be changed and my guitar store changed them to EL34 JJ tubes instead of EL84 stock tubes. And i must say i prefered the stock EL84 as they just sounded better with high gain stuff but the el34 are better with the clean channels.

 

Just so you know, they could not have put EL34's in your DT since they would not physically fit or work.  34's can not be swapped with 84's.  34's have an octal base, 84's have a noval base and they both require different operating voltages.  I am sure they just put in a matched set of JJ EL84's.

 

If you want to try other tubes check out these links, they aren't too expensive - The TubeStore , Doug's Tubes

 

As for the patches, I suggest you go into your DT with DT Edit and see exactly what amp pre model/cab/mic is stored in each position along with the full configuration.  Write it all down and build a POD patch to match exactly.  Now see how they compare.  For me they match up pretty damn close...

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You are right about the 84 and 34, they put in JJ instead of the standard Sovtek becourse i think most prefer them.

 

But i think they suck at high gain, but are better for clean stuff.

 

I have ordered a midi uno and will try the DT editor before i upgrade the firmware, just to see if something changes.

 

If someone have some great high gain presets that sound good at band practice volume, please share them.

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Have updated my firmware in my dt25 and dt50 and copied the settings to my pod hd500x and i still cant get the same sound as with my dt alone :( have treid and treid i give up,

 

It just lacks the dynamik when on highgain settings sounds to digital.

 

Really hope Line 6 would make a presets that sounds as good as on the DT alone or firmware or something.

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its not always presets... output mode... input settings... etc....

that and the DT's do use cab models...

those are the places that trip people up most frequently.

 

Have updated my firmware in my dt25 and dt50 and copied the settings to my pod hd500x and i still cant get the same sound as with my dt alone :( have treid and treid i give up,

 

It just lacks the dynamik when on highgain settings sounds to digital.

 

Really hope Line 6 would make a presets that sounds as good as on the DT alone or firmware or something.

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Yes i am aware of the setting and the cab models have treid with and without and so on.

 

But i just treid to change the class a/b to a and that seems to help, but i gets insanly loud on my dt25, will try tommorow at practice on my dt50 with 4x12 mesa cab to see if thats the way to go.

 

I think i read that the class a/b was 25w and the class a was 15w 

 

Found this info: Class A are running at full power all the time, whereas a class A/B amp the power amp valves only operate as required and idle when they aren't.

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I found that changing the input and mixer settings on on the PODHD helped me get the 2 together to sound like the inbuilt preamps.

 

Set imput 1 to guitar, input 2 to Variax (with no Variax connected). In the mixer set channel A panned to center at 0db and mute channel B.

 

I had been running witn both channel A and B on and the input 2 to same and getting a huge volume boost over the DT standalone. With the new settings I am much happier and the POD with DT connected sounds and feels much better and just like the DT standalone.

 

Gazza

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Ok thnx for the tip i have treid something simulere but not the variax thing, i have it on the same.

 

Have testet my dt25 and dt50 on diffrent cabs and when i use my mesa 4x12cab i need to use the class a setting or i get a clipping in the sound.

 

But using the standard 1x12 dt25 cab i can use a/b without clipping, also my sound is diffrent here where i live and at practice so it is not easy to dial in the sound in my head but i am getting there slowly. :)

 

Do you have the volume on 100% then use the master for total volume or do you use them both. ?

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Thank you forum members.  I've been playing my acoustic guitar through my POD HD500 for years with the input 1 set on guitar and input 2 set on mic with the mic turned all the way off (knob on back of POD).  I haven't done this since playing electric with the DT25.  I do use dual amp tones some and wonder if I just automatically did this without giving it much thought.

 

I've not tried before to match the DT25 through L6 Link tone with the sound and feel going direct to the DT25.  I did just for kicks and got it really close - but I turned the cab sims off - which in contrast to what others have said.  Which leads to my questions below.

 

Can the DT (like any other computer, etc.) get corrupted slightly??  I've never done the update (2.0) since I have the POD.  From what I've read it won't benefit me to do the update since I have the POD.  I don't have any MIDI controls, etc.  Could it be a good idea to do the factory reset every so often just to be sure nothing has accidently change or whatever??  Kinda like a restart on a computer??  Or am is the factory reset "only do as last resort" type of thing.  I hope this make sense.

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 I've never done the update (2.0) since I have the POD.  From what I've read it won't benefit me to do the update since I have the POD.  

 

Actually, certain aspects of what you configure on the DT25 in 'standalone' mode (with the MIDI software editor) do carry over when using the HD500 in link mode. 

 

Not major stuff but things such as

 

- reverb assignments

- amp model settings when no amp model is chosen on the HD500

- the microphone model that feeds the XLR out on the back of the DT25.

 

In particular, #2 is very useful. Set a pair of the 'voicings' on the DT25 to 'amp none', and do the same on the POD. 

This works quite well to use acoustic guitars with the DT25, or the JTV acoustic models. Bypassing the preamp and cabinet also bypasses the mic model, so in essence you get something resembling 'studio/direct' - basically a direct tap into the DT25 power amp.

 

In this case, the topology is whatever you define in the DT25 editor using the MIDI option. That stays with the amp after you disconnect the MIDI, so it's a useful option, to be able to incorporate acoustic signals into the DT rig.

 

And the reverb dial on the DT25 is independent from the reverbs defined in the HD500, and you can load any of the HD500 reverbs, which can be quite useful to off load that DSP to the DT25! Like, particle verb for example.

 

The mic model as loaded in the DT25 is what you hear when using the XLR out from the DT25, not the mic model as defined in the HD500.

The default setting is SM57 off axis I think? One of the two SM57 options. I will test that to be sure..

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