[Solution] Ghost notes?

[The_Fiddler]

Hi guys,

 

Last night I was fiddling with my Variax after I'd had it set up professionally by my luthier and came across a weird noise artifact when using alternate tunings. This was especially a problem for me as I play mainly in Drop C#.

 

After trawling the forums and trying the following:

 

*Reflashing FW

*Adjusting pickup/bridge height to avoid magnetic "pull"

*Trying VDI cable and Regular cable

*Checking HD500x settings

I was at a loss as to why suddenly there was this ghosting of notes amking alt tunings unplayable.

I raised a ticket and then happened to message a high profile Variax user who is local to me and on my Facebook. He made mention of ensuring good contact between string/bridge and also a comment about string tension. I replied that I would change the (Already new) strings again just to remove one more possibility.

 

He then said "Try less string on the machinehead"

 

This morning when I went to restring, I noticed that my luthier had wound heaps of string onto the machine heads.

 

I use this method of stringing a guitar (Look at the "Vintage tuners" section a bit down the page), which means you have very few winds (Generally less than 2) on the machinehead. When you pass the string under itself, it "self-locks" and doesn't require a bunch of winds to "grip" the machinehead.

 

Tuned up and viola, no more ghost notes!

 

I rang my luthier and had a chat to him about it, and he said that the reason he winds so much is to ensure the strings pass on vibration through the headstock. In my opinion, this appears to be what the problem is. The guitar is resonating with the true frequency of the strings, and this is why you hear the ghost notes.

 

I'm not here to get into an argument about the best way to string a guitar, but in 24 years I have tried many, many different mays to wind strings, and after I got this guide in my PRS case, I use it for 14 out of 16 of my guitars, and the exceptions are my two classicals.

TL;DR: Try less winds around your machineheads.

[azur1964]

Hello,

I also have a problem when I use the ALT tunning .
When I use the drop D or A , it affects the lower chord ( A).
There is a note in addition to ghost notes the string and make it sound false and gruesome .
In short it became completely unusable.
It's very weird , the sound of the string in drop D for example is not affected by this problem .

 

I flashed recently (2.1 to 2.0) same problem , and 2.0 to 2.1, no improvement.

I also changed the strings and I do not recall if the problem was already present.

 

I will try to reduce the number of turns on the turn knob and see the result but
I'm skeptical because everyone changes the strings and there would be more of reporting
this problem.

By cons if that's crap for professional musicians.

 

I also saw a decline in volume on the E string hight ( may be it is subjective )

Is that the piezo sensors would shake ? Should we must replace you 're installed tuning machine by  locking tuners ?

 

I have a JTV89 , and it's not easy to change the strings with the type of tailpiece installed

 

Have a good year.

[azur1964]

I made less string tour around the mechanics, but the

problem is still present.

These guitars are full of surprises ...

When will the next update that will fix the lollipoping problem?

[McLenison]

Thanks for the tip!

 

I used to physically tune the strings down a whole step and the noticed D string gave a ring-modulator double-note sound.  At the time, L6 support told me that the software was calibrated to standard tuning.  -I had no problem though tuning down a half step.

[fr0sty]

Bummer, my strings were already wound very minimally...

[cruisinon2]

Bummer, my strings were already wound very minimally...

 

I won't pretend to know what cuases this problem, but I think that this particular solution was a bit a a stretch anyway.  This often seems to be a "now you have it/now you don't" problem...even though it seemed to work for the OP, I suspect that whatever had caused it had nothing to do with the # of windings around the post. Likely a coincidence.

[Charlie_Watt]

I agree that it's a stretch!  The idea that the problem is mechanical I can buy though.  Winding a few extra turns on the tuners should not change things as long as the winds are smooth.  It does change the angle from the nut to the end of the string slightly.  Damping the strings past the nut is always a good idea too.  I have a damper there on all of my guitars.  I think that the pitch shifting algorithms are always going to be messed up by extra resonances that can be caused by mechanical vibrations.  This may be what is causing "ghost notes" on some JTV's and not others.

[fr0sty]

I think it may be physical also.  I can almost convince myself I hear the oddity, ever so slightly, when the guitar isn't plugged in.  I may be fooling myself though :)

[Charlie_Watt]

Mine does not do it but I could imagine something being loose somewhere.  It then could rattle and cause artifacts.

[azur1964]

I returned to 1.9 to see if the problem was still there.

The problem exists but it is less audible because it's messy.

So I reinstalled version 2.1 and the problem persists on ghost notes of A string, and looking more closely at the D string is also assigned a less audible and less troublesome.

I think it is a bug. I really hope that the next update to resolve this problem because the guitar is not usable DROP D (via alt-tuning).

 

Je suis repassé en 1.9 pour voir si le problème était toujours là.

Le problème existe mais c'est moins audible car c'est plus brouillon.

Donc, j'ai réinstallé la version 2.1 et le problème subsiste sur les ghost notes de la corde de A, et en regardant de plus prés la corde de D est aussi affectée façon moins audible et moins gênante.

Je pense que c'est un bug. J'espère vraiment que la prochaine mise à jour résolve ce problème, car la guitare n'est pas utilisable en DROP D (via le alt-tunning).

[cruisinon2]

I think it is a bug. I really hope that the next update to resolve this problem because the guitar is not usable DROP D (via alt-tuning).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whatever the cause may be, it's not a software bug. If it were, then every JTV out there would be affected, yet they're not. Don't hold your breath for the next update to fix the problem.

[azur1964]

I did not know it was so sensitive. Never, I would change the strings.

Maybe the solution is to change the tailpiece with piezo pickups ... and all the rest ..

In the end, it's not up to me to provide a solution. Line6 should redesign his guitar ...

 

Je ne savais pas que c'était aussi sensible. Jamais, je n'aurais du changer les cordes.

Peut être que la solution c'est de changer le cordier avec les micros piezo... et tutti quanti..

Au final, ce n'est pas à moi d'apporter une solution. Line6 devrait revoir la conception de sa guitare... 

[stevekc]

My solution:

 

1) Use locking tuners and less than one string wrap per tuning post 

 

2) Use string dampers  - many just use a hair scrunchy behind the Nut - to dampen strings 

 

 

 

 

and there are commercial string dampers for MIDI Guitar use that also benefit Variax DSP Alt Tuning users

 

Sonuus Buzznut String Dampener

http://www.sonuus.com/products_accessories.html

 

 

The Buznut Ultimate String Dampener (Patent Pending) was invented as a solution to those expensive, complicated, bulky and obtrusive dampening devises, which conceptually were ideal but in practicality did not appeal to a lot of Guitarists who just did not want to use them for fear of modifications and possible damage to their Guitars.

The Buznut string dampner does not require you to make any alteration to your guitar. You simply slide the strip under your strings. Once it is in position you dampen your strings by positioning the dampening bumps in the strip under your strings. While the strip is in position under your strings you can turn off the dampening by sliding the strip a tiny amount so that the dampening bumps on the strip now align with the gaps between your guitar strings. It really is that simple! 



Sizes
There are two different sizes available. The Standard Strip (is defined with a ‘S’ on the back of the strip) will fit most Guitars with low to average action. The Custom Strip (with a ‘C’ on the back of the strip) will work best with Guitars with very low action.

Each pack contains two String Dampner Strips, either two Standard, two Custom or one of each.

[cruisinon2]

My solution:

 

1) Use locking tuners and less than one string wrap per tuning post 

 

2) Use string dampers  - many just use a hair scrunchy behind the Nut - to dampen strings 

 

 

 

 

and there are commercial string dampers for MIDI Guitar use that also benefit Variax DSP Alt Tuning users

 

Sonuus Buzznut String Dampener

http://www.sonuus.com/products_accessories.html

 

 

The Buznut Ultimate String Dampener (Patent Pending) was invented as a solution to those expensive, complicated, bulky and obtrusive dampening devises, which conceptually were ideal but in practicality did not appeal to a lot of Guitarists who just did not want to use them for fear of modifications and possible damage to their Guitars.

The Buznut string dampner does not require you to make any alteration to your guitar. You simply slide the strip under your strings. Once it is in position you dampen your strings by positioning the dampening bumps in the strip under your strings. While the strip is in position under your strings you can turn off the dampening by sliding the strip a tiny amount so that the dampening bumps on the strip now align with the gaps between your guitar strings. It really is that simple! 

 

 

Sizes

There are two different sizes available. The Standard Strip (is defined with a ‘S’ on the back of the strip) will fit most Guitars with low to average action. The Custom Strip (with a ‘C’ on the back of the strip) will work best with Guitars with very low action.

 

Each pack contains two String Dampner Strips, either two Standard, two Custom or one of each.

 

Placing the dampener behind the nut as you suggest, I get...but in the pic, they clearly want you to place the thing in front of the nut. Seems to me it would make playing any open strings impossible, or at least make it terribly muted...what good is that?

[Charlie_Watt]

Who wants to damp the strings like that?  Seems like an april fools joke to me!

[cruisinon2]

Who wants to damp the strings like that? Seems like an april fools joke to me!

Yeah...I don't get it. None for me, thanks...lol

[fr0sty]

Plus I'm not sure why anything behind the nut would affect fretted notes. 

[stevekc]

 

 

Who wants to damp the strings like that?  Seems like an april fools joke to me!

 

 

I guess none of you guys play with an EVH style  "tapping" technique, near the 12th fret , and place your ear near the fretboard and listen to the "two pitches" that occur per string - the one between the bridge and fret, and the other one between the fret and the Nut. Its the later that clobbers DSP alt tunings and yields Ghost Notes.   

[cruisinon2]

I guess none of you guys play with an EVH style  "tapping" technique, near the 12th fret , and place your ear near the fretboard and listen to the "two pitches" that occur per string - the one between the bridge and fret, and the other one between the fret and the Nut. Its the later that clobbers DSP alt tunings and yields Ghost Notes.   

 

Only if you're tapping an otherwise open string....can't say I've had that come up very often. Almost always involves one or more other fretted notes.

 

That being the case, I fail to see how dampening the strings in front of the nut would solve the problem anyway.  Any vibrations being generated by finger-tapping happen further up the neck. Placing the damper well behind those points will accomplish nothing. It might keep open strings from ringing and make one's EVH tap-scapades easier to pull off (no pun intended...) and sound a little cleaner, but that's about all one could expect from this device.

 

And what of all the unfortunate souls who experience ghost notes just strumming a chord, minus all the finger-tapping? What's causing it then? Ghost notes come up regularly on this forum, and I have never seen one complaint that relates it specifically to finger-tapping.

 

FWIW, I have no answers to these questions, and I'm not trying to pick a fight...just can't see one very specific technique being the culprit. If there were a definitive answer, I think we'd all have it by now. Even if tapping is a contributing factor, I don't see how that string dampener would make the slightest bit of difference. Just my 2 cents...

[stevekc]

http://line6.com/support/topic/111-make-your-variax-sound-100-better/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20130620091147/http://line6.com/support/message/485558

 

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8196.msg58201#msg58201

 

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1397.msg7441#msg7441

 

 

 

 

 

 

I made this video because I had a whole bunch of questions asking about what that thing is on my guitar. Hope this helps.