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clay-man

Ghost notes in Drop tunings

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Yeah, having another problem again. This one is even worse.

 

Setting a tuning to Drop D and palm muting causes the A string to bleed to the E string piezo and give a ghost note a whole step below the A string. The E string also does the same thing with the A string to a lesser degree.

 

What can I do about this? I'm starting to think sending back the previous guitar was a mistake.

 

Edit: Here's a clip of what happens

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21663288/Music/crosstalk.mp3

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Yeah, having another problem again. This one is even worse.

 

Setting a tuning to Drop D and palm muting causes the A string to bleed to the E string piezo and give a ghost note a whole step below the A string. The E string also does the same thing with the A string to a lesser degree.

 

What can I do about this? I'm starting to think sending back the previous guitar was a mistake.

I suspect that there's nothing you can do about this. You're gonna find piezo crosstalk on all of them. Mine does it with any of the drop D tunings too. High gain makes it worse, and is barely noticeable with clean tones and no palm muting. Any of the alt tunings where some strings are having their pitch altered, and others remain the same are all gonna have this problem. The only scenario where it won't matter is if all the strings are being altered by the same interval...then bleed-through doesn't matter, as the same amount of de-tuning is being applied to everything, no matter which piezo is "hearing" the original note(s). I use 1/2 step down quite a lot, with no strange anomalies.

 

When I do use ths drop D tuning and I'm palm muting notes on the A string, I have to fiddle with my playing technique a bit so I'm not hardly touching the E string at all. That will likely eliminate most of your problem...believe it or not, if your hand is resting on both E and A strings, some of the A strings' vibrations that the low E piezo is picking up are coming through your hand. To prove it to yourself, angle your picking hand so its not resting on the low E string, play some palm-muted stuff on the A string, and I'll bet you $20 that the bleed through disappears. Tricky, but it can be done. Took me a while to convince myself that this is what was happening, but I cant argue with the results. If you need more proof, go into Workbench and turn the A string piezo all the way down to zero. Then play some palm-muted notes on that A string with you palm resting across the low E string. You're gonna hear that A string coming through, despite it essentially being turned "off". Then do the same without resting on the E string, and you'll hear nothing. Did a whole thread on this a while back...its in here somewhere. Some vibrations may or may not be transmitted from an adjacent saddle, or through the bridge as well...hard to say. Theres a lot going on at once...

 

Until somebody figures out a way to better isolate the piezos from picking up vibrations from other strings, this is gonna be a problem. I'm not sure it CAN be fixed, and I suspect that some of it boils down to playing technique, as I have been able to work around it. We don't all approach hand positioning the same way. As such, this is likely to affect some of us more than others.

 

Point is, I dont think there's anything "wrong" with your guitar. Some DSP manipulation just isn't ready for prime-time, and won't be able to be applied successfully across different tones and playing styles. Its simply a limitation of the technology...and its also why I didnt return mine at the beginning. I had no intention of getting on the return/replace merry-go-round multiple times.

 

I'll bet money that anybody who claims their guitar doesn't do this, probably doesn't play with a lot of gain, or doesn't do any palm-muted chugging with their style of playing. I can play in drop D with a crystal clean tone all day long and not hear anything weird.

 

You can keep swapping guitars until Doomsday and not find one that does everything perfectly, because perfection ain't here yet.

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I understand there is some cross talk between the strings, but the previous JTV I had in hand didn't have this problem that badly, and neither does my 600.

 

The cross talk would only be some overtones that would blend with the note, the sound I'm getting sounds like 2 notes being played at once.

It sounds awful.

 

I'm going to see what I can do with Sweetwater. 

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I understand there is some cross talk between the strings, but the previous JTV I had in hand didn't have this problem that badly, and neither does my 600.

 

The cross talk would only be some overtones that would blend with the note, the sound I'm getting sounds like 2 notes being played at once.

It sounds awful.

 

I'm going to see what I can do with Sweetwater.

I know exactly what you're describing. I've lived it. And I can reproduce it at will if I want. Try what I suggested and see if it helps. You may not want to continue that way, but at least you'll have a diagnosis instead of just a guess as to whats going on.

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I know exactly what you're describing. I've lived it. And I can reproduce it at will if I want. Try what I suggested and see if it helps. You may not want to continue that way, but at least you'll have a diagnosis instead of just a guess as to whats going on.

 

I know it's my palm transferring the A string vibrations to the E string. The problem is that the bleed through is massive, and trying not to touch the E string or piezo while palm muting is a whole lot of work.

 

This is how bad it sounds:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21663288/Music/crosstalk.mp3

 

I start on E standard, switch to Drop D, then chug the A string switching between Drop D and E standard, you can hear it go in and out.

After that I play more in Drop D on the A string.

 

 

I swear that the previous guitar I had didn't have this problem, and again, my 600 didn't have this problem either.

I'm going to try to get the previous guitar back, but I don't know if Sweetwater will let me until I get a reply back from them.

 

Minor improved string spacing can take a back seat to a proper sounding guitar for me. 

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same problem after string replacement.

 
I think something 's moving.
For now the drop D is unusable.
 
 
Besides, it would be an update will solve small problems from version 2.1 without change everything as in version 2.0

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same problem after string replacement.

 

 

 

 

I think something 's moving.

For now the drop D is unusable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides, it would be an update will solve small problems from version 2.1 without change everything as in version 2.0

It ain't a software issue. Its mechanical.

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I agree with cruisinon2 that it is most likely a mechanical issue.  Try the standard damping techniques and look for something loose.  Damp the springs in the Trem and damp the strings above the nut.  These guitars will not vary from unit to unit due to electronic differences but it's hard to make all guitars the same mechanically.  Piezo crosstalk is an issue when you are using alternate tunings.  A little crosstalk during normal tunings does not mess up the sound but crosstalk during alternate tunings can make bad sounds.

Also you should try new strings if you haven't already.  Never trust the strings that these things arrive with because many were manufactured years ago.

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Ok, It's mechanical, how can I fix it ?

Damp the springs in the Trem and damp the strings above the nut : no works.

 
Have to remove the dust of the bridge ?
Currently on my guitar, every drop have a very important cross talk on the A string.
 

@cruisinon2 : I want (hope) a body strat fonctionnal : it's wrong ?

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Could I send my guitar to Line 6? Obviously I have a warranty. The question is, will they do anything about it?

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Ok, It's mechanical, how can I fix it ?

 

The whole point I was trying to make is that I perosnally don't think that it is fixable. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, and I have no other JTVs with which to compare mine...but based on all the troubleshooting I've done, ruling out one thing at a time, it does not seem like there is anything to "fix". When I say the problem is mechanical, that doesn't mean that some physical piece of hardware is broken. The problem is stopping vibrations from reaching other piezo saddles, which are transferred via your hand laying across other strings...thats where most, if not all of the problem lies. IMHO, this is nearly impossible to do, other than adjusting one's technique to compensate. A perfect solution? Certainly not...but until the technology improves, this is what we've got.

 

Its also entirely possible that the issue may be worse on some guitars, as other variables may contribute to the problem. No two guitars ever resonate the same. It will also very likely vary with one's playing technique...thats why a universal, one size fits all "fix" probably doesn't exist. Either accept it as a limitation of the technology and be satisfied with all the other things that these guitars do very well, or keep swapping instruments endlessly until...maybe...you find one that doesn't have this problem. I don't have the time or the energy for that. YMMV...

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The whole point I was trying to make is that I perosnally don't think that it is fixable. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, and I have no other JTVs with which to compare mine...but based on all the troubleshooting I've done, ruling out one thing at a time, it does not seem like there is anything to "fix". When I say the problem is mechanical, that doesn't mean that some physical piece of hardware is broken. The problem is stopping vibrations from reaching other piezo saddles, which are transferred via your hand laying across other strings...thats where most, if not all of the problem lies. IMHO, this is nearly impossible to do, other than adjusting one's technique to compensate. A perfect solution? Certainly not...but until the technology improves, this is what we've got.

 

Its also entirely possible that the issue may be worse on some guitars, as other variables may contribute to the problem. No two guitars ever resonate the same. It will also very likely vary with one's playing technique...thats why a universal, one size fits all "fix" probably doesn't exist. Either accept it as a limitation of the technology and be satisfied with all the other things that these guitars do very well, or keep swapping instruments endlessly until...maybe...you find one that doesn't have this problem. I don't have the time or the energy for that. YMMV...

 

The variables are worse. There are overtones on all Variaxes, but the other ones I have are only high pitched harmonics that blend fine with the string and virtually is inaudible.

 

The one I'm getting sounds like 2 notes being played and it sounds awful. I really don't like it and I want to know how to reduce it without having to constantly think about where I'm laying down my hand. I shouldn't have to do that.

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The variables are worse. There are overtones on all Variaxes, but the other ones I have are only high pitched harmonics that blend fine with the string and virtually is inaudible.

 

The one I'm getting sounds like 2 notes being played and it sounds awful. I really don't like it and I want to know how to reduce it without having to constantly think about where I'm laying down my hand. I shouldn't have to do that.

 

I shouldn't have to do it either, and I wish I didn't. I'd love a solution too...but that doesn't mean that a viable one exists. Sometimes thats just how the universe works.

 

I fully understand your problem...it's exactly the same as mine. 2 notes simultaneously... "A" and a de-tuned "G" from the A string ringing through the low E saddle (or whatever fretted note you might be playing on the A string, and it's whole step down, detuned counterpart). If you can manage to figure out how to stop your hand from conducting vibrations into an adjacent string and saddle, then by all means let the me know...because that's what's going on. No palm-muting, no problem...open, unmuted A string will ring all day long with no extra notes coming through other piezos...it's all about what other strings you're touching. What is L6 supposed to do about that? Other than less sensitive piezos (probably much less sensitive ones would be necessary...which would do God-knows-what to the modeling) what other solution could there be? I want a nice, tidy solution too...but I'm not holding my breath.

 

All the other stuff on the guitar that everyone likes to dampen, I suspect contributes very little (if anything at all) to this problem. I tried all that too...behind the nut, trem springs, behind the saddles themselves, etc, etc. Never thought any of those were the primary concern, but I gave it the old college try anyway...didn't help. I'm not convinced that a fix is coming from L6 anytime soon either...not sure there's anything to be done. Flawless alternate tunings may arrive one day...and I'll rejoice with everybody else. But it's gonna take another tech leap to get there.

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I shouldn't have to do it either, and I wish I didn't. I'd love a solution too...but that doesn't mean that a viable one exists. Sometimes thats just how the universe works.

 

I fully understand your problem...it's exactly the same as mine. 2 notes simultaneously... "A" and a de-tuned "G" from the A string ringing through the low E saddle (or whatever fretted note you might be playing on the A string, and it's whole step down, detuned counterpart). If you can manage to figure out how to stop your hand from conducting vibrations into an adjacent string and saddle, then by all means let the me know. But a solution simply isn't coming from L6 anytime soon. I'm not convinced that anybody can fix this particular issue

 

Ugh. I shouldn't have sent my previous guitar back.

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Changing the string did absolutely nothing. Palm muting back further helps a bit since my hand doesn't rest too much on the other string, but it's a pain.

 

I'm discussing another swap, but it's definitely getting frustrating. I'm looking for an upgrade of my Variax 600, not a downgrade. Like I said, it (The 600) doesn't have that problem, and neither did the guitar I sent back to Sweetwater, which was a mistake because that noise was a glitch not an electronic problem. 

 

The marginally better string spacing isn't worth not being able to use drop tunings.

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Changing the string did absolutely nothing. Palm muting back further helps a bit since my hand doesn't rest too much on the other string, but it's a pain.

 

I'm discussing another swap, but it's definitely getting frustrating. I'm looking for an upgrade of my Variax 600, not a downgrade. Like I said, it (The 600) doesn't have that problem, and neither did the guitar I sent back to Sweetwater, which was a mistake because that noise was a glitch not an electronic problem. 

 

The marginally better string spacing isn't worth not being able to use drop tunings.

 

I wouldn't have expected changing the strings to make any difference...unfortunately, you can play the "maybe it's this" game all day, and get nowhere. Been there done that. Unless you can keep the E saddle from "hearing" the A string, the problem will persist.

 

If it's gonna drive you nuts, and Sweetwater wants to be accomodating, then get another one. But I really think that most, if not all of them will do this, unless you lean towards cleaner tones and don't palm-mute much. Then you might get away with it. Unless you really played in drop D with that first JTV for a while, you may have missed it...I know you didn't have it very long.

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I wouldn't have expected changing the strings to make any difference...unfortunately, you can play the "maybe it's this" game all day, and get nowhere. Been there done that. Unless you can keep the E saddle from "hearing" the A string, the problem will persist.

 

If it's gonna drive you nuts, and Sweetwater wants to be accomodating, then get another one. But I really think that most, if not all of them will do this, unless you lean towards cleaner tones and don't palm-mute much. Then you might get away with it. Unless you really played in drop D with that first JTV for a while, you may have missed it...I know you didn't have it very long.

 

Holy crap. I just plugged in my 600 and it's doing the same thing. I never noticed this, ever. 

 

I guess you're right. Adjusting my playing does help, but it's kinda weird.

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I think I'm keeping this guitar. It's mostly the Drop D tuning where it's audible. Any Drop tuning has it to some degree but it's not as audible and is passible.

 

I think the reason I never noticed this is because I don't use Drop D for high gain metal that much and more for rock stuff, while I use Drop A# and Drop A for more high gain stuff which doesn't have as much overtone problems as Drop D probably because of resonance issues.

 

It's still slightly annoying but I think I can deal with it.

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I think you are making the right decision.  Some of the alt tunings seem to work well.  I have used the Open G and it sounds good.  Other than that, I do not really use the alt tunings all that much.  I do wish the 12 string stuff sounded a bit more real.  I don't think it sounds any more real with my JTV than it does on my old 500.  I have a real 12 string electric (Vox from the mid 60's) that was given to me recently and it sounds great but it's hard to play cleanly.  I think you will like your JTV more and more as you get used to playing it.

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I think you are making the right decision.  Some of the alt tunings seem to work well.  I have used the Open G and it sounds good.  Other than that, I do not really use the alt tunings all that much.  I do wish the 12 string stuff sounded a bit more real.  I don't think it sounds any more real with my JTV than it does on my old 500.  I have a real 12 string electric (Vox from the mid 60's) that was given to me recently and it sounds great but it's hard to play cleanly.  I think you will like your JTV more and more as you get used to playing it.

 

I can't believe I never realized it happened on my 600 as well. It seems to be the worst on the first few frets, including open string, on the A string.

 

After I realized that I felt a little bit better. If I loved my 600 which did the same, then I can love my JTV. 

 

Personally I could switch 1 more time with their last guitar in stock, but is it worth it? What if it's not better, or yet, what if it's worse? I'd rather not mess with that.

 

The biggest thing I'm happy about is not having that awful, awful plinking crap. It makes E standard Les paul useless on my 600.

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I can't believe I never realized it happened on my 600 as well. It seems to be the worst on the first few frets, including open string, on the A string.

 

After I realized that I felt a little bit better. If I loved my 600 which did the same, then I can love my JTV. 

 

Personally I could switch 1 more time with their last guitar in stock, but is it worth it? What if it's not better, or yet, what if it's worse? I'd rather not mess with that.

 

The biggest thing I'm happy about is not having that awful, awful plinking crap. It makes E standard Les paul useless on my 600.

 

Yep...they're all gonna do it. I'm no "expert", and I might not be able to devise a solution to every problem, but I can troubleshoot with the best of 'em. Once you really look at it, it's super easy to see what's causing this. Fixing it, on the other hand is easier said than done. Contorting my picking hand isn't the easiest thing I've ever done, but for the most part I can work around it, and nothing terrible happens.

 

I went back and forth too...return it, keep it. Concluded that I would likely encounter the exact same thing with a different axe. Some of the "magic" that these guitars are supposed to be able to pull off just ain't quite there yet. But it does a lot of things really well. If I have to pick up another axe for drop D stuff...so be it. It's still a solid guitar, dead silent when I'm not touching the strings, and capable of more tones than the other 6 guitars I have sitting here, combined. I can live with that.

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Yeah, having another problem again. This one is even worse.

 

Setting a tuning to Drop D and palm muting causes the A string to bleed to the E string piezo and give a ghost note a whole step below the A string. The E string also does the same thing with the A string to a lesser degree.

 

What can I do about this? I'm starting to think sending back the previous guitar was a mistake.

 

Edit: Here's a clip of what happens

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21663288/Music/crosstalk.mp3

Having the same issue with 89F

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It will be interesting to see how the Shuriken guitars sound with palm muting and drop notes, alt tunings ,etc.

 

I recall reading that they were testing a different bridge design all together.

It would appear the primary issue is mechanical, as noted above. If that is the case, then it's like computer programming:

 

"garbage in / garbage out"

 

Meaning, if the bridge is transmitting audio that is messing up the Variax processing, especially as it pertains to palm muting notes causing cross talk, then it's a physical change that would need to occur, likely a combination of technique adjustment and physical (bridge related) adjustment.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/10999-new-shuriken-variax-models/

 

psarkissian:

Posted 26 December 2014 - 10:03 AM

LR Baggs bridge, with piezos,

like your JTV-89 (with the Japanese kanji on it)?

By the way, how is it? How's the updated electronics

on that one doing?

 

TwelveFootNinja:

Posted 27 December 2014 - 09:35 PM

We're testing a different bridge all together  ;)

 

TwelveFootNinja:

Posted 04 January 2015 - 08:02 PM

Yeah for some reason it does sound a lot better physically tuned to D when playing in drop A.

 

Posted 04 January 2015 - 06:26 PM

For clarity: physically the strings never go lower than D, A, D, G, B, E

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It will be interesting to see how the Shuriken guitars sound with palm muting and drop notes, alt tunings ,etc.

 

I recall reading that they were testing a different bridge design all together.

It would appear the primary issue is mechanical, as noted above. If that is the case, then it's like computer programming:

 

"garbage in / garbage out"

 

Meaning, if the bridge is transmitting audio that is messing up the Variax processing, especially as it pertains to palm muting notes causing cross talk, then it's a physical change that would need to occur, likely a combination of technique adjustment and physical (bridge related) adjustment.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/10999-new-shuriken-variax-models/

 

psarkissian:

Posted 26 December 2014 - 10:03 AM

 

LR Baggs bridge, with piezos,

like your JTV-89 (with the Japanese kanji on it)?

By the way, how is it? How's the updated electronics

on that one doing?

 

TwelveFootNinja:

Posted 27 December 2014 - 09:35 PM

We're testing a different bridge all together ;)

 

TwelveFootNinja:

Posted 04 January 2015 - 08:02 PM

 

Yeah for some reason it does sound a lot better physically tuned to D when playing in drop A.

 

Posted 04 January 2015 - 06:26 PM

 

For clarity: physically the strings never go lower than D, A, D, G, B, E

 

 

Personally I think that the bridge itself is all but irrelevant. They can change anything they want on the bridge...build it from nothing but diamonds and happy thoughts, and it won't stop vibrations from propagating through one's hand and the E string itself. I don't ever touch the bridge at all while playing. It's all about which strings your hand rests across. It's nearly impossible to palm mute withou touching the low E string...the unwanted vibrations are being transmitted through you and the E string itself, not the bridge. Allow open A to ring with no palm muting and nothing rings through the low E piezo. Tested it all 100 times in Workbench with A string volume at zero...play open A string, not touching anything else=no sound. Then palm mute notes on A string while also resting on the E string and you'll hear the A string. Only one explanation as to how those vibrations are reaching the E saddle. Try it on yours...bet ya $20 it will do it too.

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Crosstalk between strings is going to degrade alternate tunings no matter how it happens and it makes sense that palm muting can be a source of crosstalk.

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Personally I think that the bridge itself is all but irrelevant. They can change anything they want on the bridge...build it from nothing but diamonds and happy thoughts, and it won't stop vibrations from propagating through one's hand and the E string itself. I don't ever touch the bridge at all while playing. It's all about which strings your hand rests across. It's nearly impossible to palm mute withou touching the low E string...the unwanted vibrations are being transmitted through you and the E string itself, not the bridge. Allow open A to ring with no palm muting and nothing rings through the low E piezo. Tested it all 100 times in Workbench with A string volume at zero...play open A string, not touching anything else=no sound. Then palm mute notes on A string while also resting on the E string and you'll hear the A string. Only one explanation as to how those vibrations are reaching the E saddle. Try it on yours...bet ya $20 it will do it too.

 

That pretty much sums it up!!

 

My 89F does the same thing.

The fact that there is virtually no crosstalk when not palm muting is a testament to how well the isolation is of the transfer of vibrations to the piezos from individual strings.

 

Now if I can just figure out how to dampen my palm!!

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That pretty much sums it up!!

 

My 89F does the same thing.

The fact that there is virtually no crosstalk when not palm muting is a testament to how well the isolation is of the transfer of vibrations to the piezos from individual strings.

 

Now if I can just figure out how to dampen my palm!!

Halellujah! Somebody else gets it...the bridge has nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned. The only remedy I've found is to avoid the E string whenever possible (easier said than done), and try to limit the gain. Some amp models seem to make it worse than others. For a mid-rangey crunch, Soundgarden-ish...you can get away with it. Anything more than that, and it's a total mess. I've made my peace with it.

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 The only remedy I've found is to avoid the E string whenever possible (easier said than done), and try to limit the gain.

 

Working against 30+ years of muscle memory is a strange sensation!!

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That pretty much sums it up!!

 

My 89F does the same thing.

The fact that there is virtually no crosstalk when not palm muting is a testament to how well the isolation is of the transfer of vibrations to the piezos from individual strings.

 

Now if I can just figure out how to dampen my palm!!

 

I already knew that my palm is the cause of crosstalk when I made this thread, I just thought that it wasn't as bad on my 600 because I literally, NEVER realized this happened until I got my 69s. Drop D sounds worse than any other Drop tuning, most likely because all the other strings aren't pitch shifted so it causes some type of resonance thing going on.

 

Other than that, the only crosstalk I really ever heard was just some harmonic overtones that mix well with the other strings so it doesn't even matter.

 

It does matter when it sounds like 2 notes are being played at the same time when I'm trying to play 1, especially when it sounds so out of harmony.

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Ok, you guys are all gonna think I am nuts but... If you drop the tuning digitally with the roller knob, the string on the guitar is still vibrating in standard tuning; but the amplified sound is vibrating in a different frequency so all the natural overtones are unsympathetic .

Imagine playing in the key of E and trying to sing in Eb. It just doesn't work does it.

 

I noticed this yesterday when I was playing at a very low volume, my ears were hearing both the standard tuning from the guitar and the altered tuning from the amp. I thought the guitar was messed up until I realized what I was actually hearing.

 

Now imagine playing loud, the frequencies coming from the amp would not blend and re enforce the string vibrations but would clash.

In some tunings the overtones could cause phase cancellation, or phase re enforcement which could cause uneven string volume.

Some stings or notes would seem louder and some softer.

 

My solution is to pick your tuning variation, and adjust the volume as best you can in workbench.

 

this is just a little something to think on.

 

Feel free to yea, or nay my comment.

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Ok, you guys are all gonna think I am nuts but... If you drop the tuning digitally with the roller knob, the string on the guitar is still vibrating in standard tuning; but the amplified sound is vibrating in a different frequency so all the natural overtones are unsympathetic .

Imagine playing in the key of E and trying to sing in Eb. It just doesn't work does it.

 

I noticed this yesterday when I was playing at a very low volume, my ears were hearing both the standard tuning from the guitar and the altered tuning from the amp. I thought the guitar was messed up until I realized what I was actually hearing.

 

Now imagine playing loud, the frequencies coming from the amp would not blend and re enforce the string vibrations but would clash.

In some tunings the overtones could cause phase cancellation, or phase re enforcement which could cause uneven string volume.

Some stings or notes would seem louder and some softer.

 

My solution is to pick your tuning variation, and adjust the volume as best you can in workbench.

 

this is just a little something to think on.

 

Feel free to yea, or nay my comment.

Playing at too low a volume so that you can still hear the guitar acoustically is a completely different issue than what has been discussed here. That will cause anyone problems. No amount of changing string volumes in Workbench is going to help you if your amp isn't turned up loud enough to drown out the acoustic sound in the room.

 

Overtones are the least of your worries. Its crosstalk, period...and really only an issue with alt tunings that change some strings and leave others alone. The drop D tunings are the worst offenders. Whilst palm muting, vibes propogate thru your picking hand into adjacent strings and saddles, so u get both the altered and unaltered note coming thru. Easily verified by muting strings in Workbench.

 

Any tuning that alters all strings by the same interval won't suffer from this because the crosstalk will also be detuned to the same degree. I use 1/2 step down tuning all the time with no issues.

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Playing at too low a volume so that you can still hear the guitar acoustically is a completely different issue than what has been discussed here. That will cause anyone problems. No amount of changing string volumes in Workbench is going to help you if your amp isn't turned up loud enough to drown out the acoustic sound in the room.

 

 

This happens to me sometimes with headphones too, when the chord touches the guitar body!!

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This happens to me sometimes with headphones too, when the chord touches the guitar body!!

Yup, I've noticed that too...

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This is a problem with alternate tunings.  The feedback that a guitar normally gets is the same frequency as the strings and it interacts nicely with the string vibrations.  With alternate tunings, the feedback from the amplified notes is not at the same frequency as the strings being played. 

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This is a problem with alternate tunings.  The feedback that a guitar normally gets is the same frequency as the strings and it interacts nicely with the string vibrations.  With alternate tunings, the feedback from the amplified notes is not at the same frequency as the strings being played. 

Thanks Charlie, that is the second point I was trying to make.

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My new guitar seems to be slightly better with the crosstalk. Muting the E string helps kill crosstalk a little bit more.

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You know I have had to deal with Ghost notes since my JTV-69 was new.  I sent my first JTV-69 back to Line 6 headquarters. They said they repaired it. They did not. 

When I look at how much talk has been dedicated to this topic on this forum, it makes me a bit angry. We paid a lot of money for a guitar the Line 6 was promising could change to alternate tunings "quickly and easily". Bottom line is that, as far as I know, Line 6 has never really acknowledged that this is a real problem for many, many customers. They make excuses, but have they ever said, "we screwed up" and all of you who spent over $1K on your guitars deserve to have a guitar that does what we promised. Have they offered to replace or upgrade our bridges/piezo systems. No. I am surprised no one has brought a suit against them for fraudulent advertising. What about all the new customers of the Standard Variax? Will they have the same problem? Or, did Yamaha step up and force them to up their quality control?

I am just ranting, but I have been so disappointed by the lack of integrity of Line 6. I wish they would just step up and help all of us who have dealt with this problem for so long.

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You know I have had to deal with Ghost notes since my JTV-69 was new.  I sent my first JTV-69 back to Line 6 headquarters. They said they repaired it. They did not. 

When I look at how much talk has been dedicated to this topic on this forum, it makes me a bit angry. We paid a lot of money for a guitar the Line 6 was promising could change to alternate tunings "quickly and easily". Bottom line is that, as far as I know, Line 6 has never really acknowledged that this is a real problem for many, many customers. They make excuses, but have they ever said, "we screwed up" and all of you who spent over $1K on your guitars deserve to have a guitar that does what we promised. Have they offered to replace or upgrade our bridges/piezo systems. No. I am surprised no one has brought a suit against them for fraudulent advertising. What about all the new customers of the Standard Variax? Will they have the same problem? Or, did Yamaha step up and force them to up their quality control?

I am just ranting, but I have been so disappointed by the lack of integrity of Line 6. I wish they would just step up and help all of us who have dealt with this problem for so long.

 

Well, I've stated that my 600 crosstalks as well. It's not Line 6's fault, it's just physics. You palm mute and make a bridge for vibrations to travel from one saddle to the other, you're gonna get crosstalk.

 

There is no technology that could ever stop that. The best you can do it get a guitar that was set up the best to reduce this problem. 

 

Like I said, my new JTV seems a bit better, and the crosstalk is virtually unnoticeable unless you concentrate on hearing it out. It sounds more like mild warble now, than 2 notes playing at the same time out of harmony, so it's fine.

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Thanks for your feedback clay-man. Still, my point is that Line 6 marketed these guitars as though they would work perfectly. I had never had an electric guitar with piezo pickups. (Acoustics, yes). So, I guess they thought they had nailed the technology, or were just downright dishonest about the guitar's capabilities. It still seems a bit underhanded. Think of any other item you would purchase for more than $1K, and be forgiving if it did not work the way it was advertised. We all seem to cut Line 6 a LOT of slack.

 

I searched the web last night for "reducing or eliminating crosstalk with piezo pickups". There is a lot of material there. I am still sifting through it. If I find anything of value I will post it. My initial insight is that optical pickups are the way to go. They eliminate the problem. It would be interesting to retrofit one of these guitars with those pickups, just to see what would happen!

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Thanks for your feedback clay-man. Still, my point is that Line 6 marketed these guitars as though they would work perfectly. I had never had an electric guitar with piezo pickups. (Acoustics, yes). So, I guess they thought they had nailed the technology, or were just downright dishonest about the guitar's capabilities. It still seems a bit underhanded. Think of any other item you would purchase for more than $1K, and be forgiving if it did not work the way it was advertised. We all seem to cut Line 6 a LOT of slack.

 

I searched the web last night for "reducing or eliminating crosstalk with piezo pickups". There is a lot of material there. I am still sifting through it. If I find anything of value I will post it. My initial insight is that optical pickups are the way to go. They eliminate the problem. It would be interesting to retrofit one of these guitars with those pickups, just to see what would happen!

 

I never saw them say they'd work perfectly, however I do agree that paying 1k for something that has a bit of an error rate is a bit ridiculous. 

I do think Line 6 needs to up their quality control, especially on a product like these guitars. 

 

The thing is that I don't think the piezo crosstalk would really qualify for a concern. As I said, it is what it is, because of physics, and it's not something you could even take out 100% if it there was some variable to controlling crosstalk.

 

It was just something I thought was a huge issue because I never had a setting on my 600 where I'd notice it much until now.

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