MIDI switching on patches

[muffinman0302]

Is it not possible to set a patch that sends out a specific midi signal when it is selected? I'd like to be able to move tones around my set list depending on what I need for any particular gig. Am I right in thinking that as default 1-64 are assigned to the 64 preset switch positions rather than the patch itself?

 

Hope that makes sense.

[rd2rk]

Correct.

[muffinman0302]

That's a shame.

[rd2rk]

Why is the MIDI PC# relevant? Are you trying to control an external amp sim? Or trying to control the POD from an external controller? Or....?

[muffinman0302]

My amp has midi switching. I'm wanting to use the different amp channels and switch to different ones for different patches. It means that if I move the patch in the set list it won't send the same signal to the amp.

[duncann]

Kind of defeats the purpose for hitting only one switch, but if your amp can receive CC messages, you could change the patch and then immediately hit another switch which would be assigned to send the right midi CC to change the amps channel.

[rd2rk]

When you press a preset button, it sends the PC# hard coded to that button. It also sends whatever CC#s you have assigned to the other buttons in that preset. So, if your amp can be switched using a CC#, then you should be able to assign the CC# needed to switch the amp to, say, button 1. Set it to Toggle with the value needed to make the change {just assign the one button, unless you need the amp to do other CC controllable stuff at the time of loading the preset.). Since you're not actually using the assigned button, the POD will always send the assigned value and, since the MIDI configuration is saved with the preset, you can move it around with no problems. If, however, your amp requires a PC# to switch then you're S.O.L., since it won't send a second, user defined PC#.

[leesteel]

It's a poor implementation of midi on L6's part. I found a work around for my rig but not being able to send out a specified PC# when you initialize the patch with the button (other than the hard coded one) is bad planning on their part. As much as I love their products, I have been using midi since the early 90's and for me, L6 dropped the ball here. I'll bet this is fixed on the Helix.

[duncann]

After looking briefly, HD does not send any automatic CC#s if set in a patch, Using ReaControlMIDI here is what's logged when switching from patch 1(0) to 2(1) in setlist 7(6) on channel 1:

 

0: B0 00 00 [CC0 Bank Select MSB] chan 1 val 0
1: B0 20 06 [CC32 Bank Select LSB] chan 1 val 6
2: B0 00 00 [CC0 Bank Select MSB] chan 1 val 0
3: B0 20 06 [CC32 Bank Select LSB] chan 1 val 6
4: C0 01 00 [Program Change] chan 1 val 1
5: C0 01 00 [Program Change] chan 1 val 1
 

The same occurs regardless if any CC# midi assignments are present for a switch.

 

edit: the above is what's logged when switching presets using HD Edit (not sure why it's doubled). The only thing that's logged when switching using the device is the last line of the above log (it's not doubled when using the device). The CC0 and CC32 entries indicate the setlist and is also sent when using the device to switch setlists.

[rd2rk]

Using MidiOx (or the MIDI Monitor in Bidule or the VST MIDI Monitor that I plug into Sonar, Live9 or Cantabile), in ABCD mode, Preset 7D, with all pedals, footswitches, looper buttons etc MIDI set BLANK (on the HD,MIDI Channel [knob 1 in MIDI setup mode] set to NONE blanks all FS settings) except for FS1 which is set to Toggle CC#001 with a Value of 0, pressing FS D in Bank 7 to select Preset 7D sends the default value of PC#27 AND CC#001 with a Value of 0. If you get a different result using that setup, then we're operating in different dimensions. Now, maybe you're using Line6 Demo presets or something, and  they've pre set the MIDI values to what you're getting. But if you configure it as I described - all but one FS BLANK, and the one FS set to toggle a CC#, selecting the preset WILL return the default PC# and the ONE CC# that you configured with the saved value (0 or 127). If you set ALL the FS values BLANK, you'll get ONLY the default PC#.

 

I never use HD Edit, as I find it annoyingly quirky to the point of uselessness.Have you actually looked, on the HD itself, at what's in the MIDI settings for the preset you're testing?

 

Reading over, I apologize if I sound testy. It's been a LONG day.

[duncann]

Well, I guess I should have mentioned that I specifically set the midi info in the patch I was changing from to see if any CC messages were being sent at all. The only time any automatic CCs were sent was for 0 and 32, and that's to indicate the setlist, not because of any specific, manual CC setting within a preset. The preset locations I used were in setlist 7, blank, and not factory presets. I also tried both pedalboard modes, FS5-7 and ABCD. The tools I'm using for this don't show any automatic CC messages sent upon a preset change, so if you're seeing this, the only thing I can think of is the difference in the tools being used.

 

Who's right? Don't know for sure. Maybe somebody more official can possibly chime in.

 

No need to apologize for anything.
 

[rd2rk]

Maybe we're not talking about the same thing.

 

First, the MIDI signals I'm talking about are sent from the HD preset you're changing TO, not the one you're changing FROM.

 

Second, The HD preset you're changing TO has to have a MIDI command saved to at least one FS in the preset for it to work. There's nothing automatic about it, except for the hard wired PC# for that setlist position, which there's no way to PREVENT from being sent.

 

Third, the only type of MIDI command the HD will send when switching TO the preset (other than the hard wired PC#) is a TOGGLING CC.

 

Fourth, if I'm correctly reading the transcription of the messages you're getting from ReaControl, it's not even showing the hard wired PC#, which is ABSOLUTELY sent when you press the button. Maybe there's some configuration setting in ReaControl that you're missing?

 

I'm not just testing a theory with a monitoring tool. I specifically set this up to use with my many amp sims, to duplicate the way the FCB1010 with UNO works in Stompbox Mode. That is, when loading a preset (in an amp sim such as Amplitube or Guitar Rig), you can turn the preset's effects ON/OFF in any configuration you like AS THE PRESET LOADS, then control the effects live, all the while having the ON/OFF status reflected by the LEDs on the board (additional setup steps required) AS THOUGH you've got bi-directional communication going on. This works. I know it does, because I USE IT everyday!

 

Might I suggest that you try actually setting up a preset on the HD as I've described, and testing the results with MidiOx? It's FREE.....

 

Better yet. I just uploaded the "Tone" to Customtone. It's called "Test MIDI" and it's in the POD HD500X area. You may still need MidiOx to properly test it, but you're halfway there!

 

If you decide to try MidiOx, when the program opens you need to do two things before you try the preset:

 

1) When the Monitor screen opens it will display "Opened Midi Input". On the menu go to OPTIONS/MIDI DEVICE. Highlight your MIDI interface and click OK. The Monitor screen will say "Closed Midi Input" then "Opened Midi Input"

 

2) On the Menu go to OPTIONS/DATA DISPLAY and uncheck MONITOR OUTPUT: HEX. That will cause MidiOx to display in human readable numbers instead of Hex. 

 

 

 

 

[duncann]

Ok, you cleared this up now. I had it backwards. The midi CCs you want sent does indeed need to be set in the patch you're switching TO.

 

So none of tools were the problem, I was.

 

So you can have 13 arbitrary auto CC#s sent upon a patch change, 11 toggle (0 or 127 value only), and 2 (exp1 and exp2) with a specific value, 0-127. The order of these events seem a little strange:

 

0: B0 1F 73 [CC31 MSB] chan 1 val 115 (exp2)
1: B0 1E 78 [CC30 MSB] chan 1 val 120 (exp1)
2: C0 3C 00 [Program Change] chan 1 val 60
3: B0 0F 7F [CC15 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (fs1)
4: B0 10 7F [CC16 GP Slider 1 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (fs2)
5: B0 11 7F [CC17 GP Slider 2 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (fs3)
6: B0 12 7F [CC18 GP Slider 3 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (fs4)
7: B0 17 7F [CC23 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (looper)
8: B0 19 7F [CC25 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (exp-toe)
9: B0 13 7F [CC19 GP Slider 4 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (fs5)
10: B0 14 7F [CC20 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (fs6)
11: B0 15 7F [CC21 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (fs7)
12: B0 16 7F [CC22 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (fs8)
13: B0 18 7F [CC24 MSB] chan 1 val 127 (tap)
 

[pugdealer]

could this help?

[duncann]

could this help?

 

We were talking about midi messages being automatically sent from the pod when the user changes patches. The video doesn't cover that. In fact, as far as I know the discovery by rd2rk of auto CC#s being sent upon a patch change is an undocumented feature.

 

But the video you posted shows very well the documented midi features when used with a daw.

[rd2rk]

Duncann - 

 

Yes, I too thought the ordering of the messages sent was rather odd. From Program Change on it simply mirrors the physical layout of the board, and since it'll only send the one type of message (toggling CC), the order seems designed so that you can view the entire array of buttons as a 10 space pedalboard. Including the Looper and TAP buttons in that view is problematic, as the Looper button continues to activate the Looper function, and they can't be set up in the same way as the FS buttons in the previously mentioned faux bi-directionality scenario, so best to look at it as an 8 space pedalboard (FS1-8) with a toe activated expression pedal (or 2). However, for the life of me I can't figure the utility of sending ANY messages BEFORE the Program Change.

 

Anyone from Line6 got any clues on the engineering logic behind that?

[PerryLancaster]

Hi

I just purchased a CME Widi Master so I could change banks wirelessly from my phone this option does not exist on my FBX pedalboard for the HD Prox

Any suggestions on an android based program that I could set up bank changes up and Down?

Thanks

Perry Lancaster