Possible DT25 Purchase(Now Purchased)

[Old-Rocker]

 I failed miserably with a HD500X(& a GT100)spent months of frustration with each.

But i know modeling amps can work for me,i gigged with 2 Cube 60's for nearly 10yrs.

I've tried a DT25 in a local shop & it sounded/felt really good,but while researching on here it seems the models are the same or similar to the HD500X,so now i'm dithering,any opinions or thoughts ?.

[BillBee]

I don't have a DT (I do regret passing on a deal that came up though) but I remember your romp through the HD and trying to get it work with your amps.

 

The biggest plus I would say is that it is an amp and you got the feel right off the bat. The guys that have one can certainly give their opinions but sometimes that knee jerk is your inner Old-Rocker saying "oh yeah". :)

 

Just saying.

 

-B

[doug316]

I still think these amps are the best, despite having been all but abandoned by Line 6. I think Line 6 is trying to sell the idea of modeling the full rig, and not sending mixed messages by offering tube amps anymore. Get it while you can. I have two DT-25's and a DT-50 2x12. You can probably negotiate a great deal. I got my latest DT-25 for $400 brand new at GC.

 

The DT's sound great if you just plug in a cable and go, perfectly blending the guitar-amp-cable of the old school while benefitting from all the flexibility of great pre-amp sims and true tube power. What more do you need, really? Vox, fender, marshall, boogie, they're all there.

 

While I am still pretty furious that Line 6 refuses to offer support with the Helix (and some BS explanation about not being able to tell us whether they are working on it or not), the amp works great when you run into the FX return with whatever you want to replace the preamp with if you want something else. There are probably other options out there but I still think the DT25 sounds as good as any amp I have played, take my modest experience with a grain of salt.

[spaceatl]

DT-25 and DT-50 are great amps. However, if you play with a drummer on an acoustic kit the DT-25 struggles with clean headroom IMO. It's adequate, but the clean tones get squishy when the amp is pushed....DT-50 is a bit better in that regard.

[Old-Rocker]

Thanks,for the replies i'm negotiating for a DT25,i'll have to try one.

Uber Guru,i started playing in the late 50's,when clean didn't exist,no such think as a clean valve amp,except big watts,which i'm not interested in. :)

[BillBee]

Be sure to check out if you can use the outs for other cabs OR. Quite a few L6 amps will let you unplug the combo speaker and let you jack in your own cab FWIW btw. :)

[Palico]

I failed miserably with a HD500X(& a GT100)spent months of frustration with each.

But i know modeling amps can work for me,i gigged with 2 Cube 60's for nearly 10yrs.

I've tried a DT25 in a local shop & it sounded/felt really good,but while researching on here it seems the models are the same or similar to the HD500X,so now i'm dithering,any opinions or thoughts ?.

 

Basically the DT25 an DT50 are a digital preamp and configurable power amp section. Yes the preamps are the same as

the "pre" versions on the HD500(x) roughly. The real kicker power of this amp is it is configurable real power amp section. You can go from as real (AB) power section to Class A. Like swapping out a Marshall for a Vox amp. Yes both great amps but really very different beasts.  And as spaceatl points out the DT-50 is a 50 watt version and DT-25 is 25 watt version so you will need to pic you poison based on how much clean overhead you want in the amp. Basically if you want really clean clean tones the the DT-50 is likely better but if you want to get real tube break up sooner without as much volume the DT25 is a better choice. Although I will warn you I have DT25 combo and rarely get it over master volumme 5 even outside. That little thing is LOUD. The DT amps are indeed designed to work with the HD500(x) to give you more options of digital preamps and effect but of course the DT works standalone as traditional amp just fine.

 

Pro:

REAL POWER TUBES.

Configurable power section. Only amp, I know of that change it's "stripes" in a instant.

Well built. I can say that for at least the DT25 combo I have. It's quite heavy and been knocked around a pretty good bit with no issues.

Works like any other amps. Pedals in front, in the loop etc... all function as would be expected for any amp.

On board reverb (kind of standard these days but a nice to have thing). It's a digital "Room" verb I believe. 

You can change a good bit of the digital side using a MIDI interface and third party editor. So you aren't exactly "stuck" with all of the exact factory setting. You have a bit of room. Search this forum for more information on what is possible with that.

 

Cons:

Pretty much NO support. It breaks and it's likely just done. No one in almost any area is going to know how to work on it. It's a hot rod even on the tube side and does not seem to follow traditional conventions. Also Line 6 indeed appears to be focused on the FRFR solutions so I doubt they will be of much assistance, other than if you have warranty during the warranty period . It's still have active product but most of us don't expect to be for long.

Channel volumes: Some of the clean setting can be pretty quite. Not that it's unworkable for that. Just need adjust channel and master volume accordingly. Do wish they were a bit more balanced. Since I used a HD500x with mine I adjust these on that to match.

 

Lastly before you look at DT amp or modelling etc.. in general you really need to know. Why do you want modelling or any amp for? If your after one or two specific tones, you may be better off just getting that amp/rig or a close approximation that is in your budget. I say this as you mentioned having trouble with getting a satisfying experience with modelling. In my case I did as well. I could get "good enough" tones but it just lacked the feel of an amp and the slightly spongy compression of real tubes. To a DAW for recording I think modelling works great but live it seemed to just lack something. Putting some real power tubes in it made it much much better. The DT looking and physically feeling like an amp and of course with the configuration section completed it for me. Going forward from here I can say I really don't use a whole lot of different tones and the future supportabilty of the amp concerns me. 

[Brazzy]

Basically the DT25 an DT50 are a digital preamp and configurable power amp section. Yes the preamps are the same as

the "pre" versions on the HD500(x) roughly. The real kicker power of this amp is it is configurable real power amp section. You can go from as real (AB) power section to Class A. Like swapping out a Marshall for a Vox amp. Yes both great amps but really very different beasts.  And as spaceatl points out the DT-50 is a 50 watt version and DT-25 is 25 watt version so you will need to pic you poison based on how much clean overhead you want in the amp. Basically if you want really clean clean tones the the DT-50 is likely better but if you want to get real tube break up sooner without as much volume the DT25 is a better choice. Although I will warn you I have DT25 combo and rarely get it over master volumme 5 even outside. That little thing is LOUD. The DT amps are indeed designed to work with the HD500(x) to give you more options of digital preamps and effect but of course the DT works standalone as traditional amp just fine.

 

Pro:

REAL POWER TUBES.

Configurable power section. Only amp, I know of that change it's "stripes" in a instant.

Well built. I can say that for at least the DT25 combo I have. It's quite heavy and been knocked around a pretty good bit with no issues.

Works like any other amps. Pedals in front, in the loop etc... all function as would be expected for any amp.

On board reverb (kind of standard these days but a nice to have thing). It's a digital "Room" verb I believe. 

You can change a good bit of the digital side using a MIDI interface and third party editor. So you aren't exactly "stuck" with all of the exact factory setting. You have a bit of room. Search this forum for more information on what is possible with that.

 

Cons:

Pretty much NO support. It breaks and it's likely just done. No one in almost any area is going to know how to work on it. It's a hot rod even on the tube side and does not seem to follow traditional conventions. Also Line 6 indeed appears to be focused on the FRFR solutions so I doubt they will be of much assistance, other than if you have warranty during the warranty period . It's still have active product but most of us don't expect to be for long.

Channel volumes: Some of the clean setting can be pretty quite. Not that it's unworkable for that. Just need adjust channel and master volume accordingly. Do wish they were a bit more balanced. Since I used a HD500x with mine I adjust these on that to match.

 

Lastly before you look at DT amp or modelling etc.. in general you really need to know. Why do you want modelling or any amp for? If your after one or two specific tones, you may be better off just getting that amp/rig or a close approximation that is in your budget. I say this as you mentioned having trouble with getting a satisfying experience with modelling. In my case I did as well. I could get "good enough" tones but it just lacked the feel of an amp and the slightly spongy compression of real tubes. To a DAW for recording I think modelling works great but live it seemed to just lack something. Putting some real power tubes in it made it much much better. The DT looking and physically feeling like an amp and of course with the configuration section completed it for me. Going forward from here I can say I really don't use a whole lot of different tones and the future supportabilty of the amp concerns me. 

 

Very good explanation post Palico.

 

I like my DT50HD/DT 25 cab set up and use it all by itself most of the time even though I have an HD500. The only thing I don't like about it was it's weight, the L6 link didn't work very good for me, I had warranty issues a few times and possible tube failures leading to more outgoing money. Oh yeah, Like Palico said finding a tech to work on it might be tough. Otherwise it sounds so fantastic I put it in a class all by itself.

 

For semi simplicity I just use the HD500 in studio direct mode or stack mode and run it into the DT's FX return. For complexity I use the 4 cable method.

 

Even more complex I also use the HD500 as a midi controller for the DT but run the guitar into the guitar input of the HD500 so that I can use the onboard pedal to control volume, reverb, or other effects and I can also run a separate path (right analog out) with effects into the FX return of the DT while running the other path (left analog out) into the DT's preamp for some interesting wet/dry.

 

I noticed the DT50 preamp is separate from the FX loop. I don't all FX loop amps are like this but I'm no expert. This allows me to take my Beat Buddy & KB37 and plug that into the FX loop return and just plug my guitar into the preamp for some quick fun with drums & keyboard.

 

Most of the time I just use the DT50 alone in 25w mode 'cause there is something good to be said about simplicity.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Brazzy

[BillBee]

Ahhhh simplicity, at times I do find a certain amount of comfort in that term. :)

[Old-Rocker]

From pretty much everything i've read on this & other Forums,(some where Line 6 amps are frowned upon),most people praise the sound/feel quality,(which is what i heard in the shop),but they take a bit of a kicking for reliability,even on this forum.

So i've bought a hardly used bedroom DT25,we'll see how it pans out,should pick it up Tomorrow.

Thanks gentlemen for all your replies & advice & Palico i did say i couldn't get to grips with the 500x & GT100,but i did use the 2 Cube 60's(well 5 actually)for many years & was very happy with them,so here goes.

[radatats]

So i've bought a hardly used bedroom DT25,we'll see how it pans out,should pick it up Tomorrow.

 

Good choice, I think you will like it as I do like mine.  Some things to note that aren't always obvious from the way they wrote their manuals.  It is basically a 2 channel amp.  However, you have 4 separate voicing choices for each of the two channels selectable by the topology switch. Here is where it gets confusing. 

- When using the DT with an HD500 the topology switch changes the negative feedback loop configuration in the power section. 

- When using the DT as a standalone amp the same switch actually selects between 4 different preprogrammed combinations of amp/cab and reverb model NOT the topology.  You can edit these voicings using midi and a 3rd party program called DT Edit on your PC.

- When using as a standalone amp you can change the voicings via midi. However, the knob positions are not saved with the voicing so it doesn't really work.  Pulling up a Treadplate model with the knob settings for a Blackface can hurt your ears!

- So while it does have 8 different possible combinations loaded, really only 2 are usable at any one time.

 

Here's what I recommend you do first.

1. perform a factory reset to eliminate anything the previous owner changed.

2. using midi to your computer (M-Audio Uno works best) and the latest Line 6 Monkey make sure your DT has the latest 2.0 firmware installed.  That lets you choose from 30 amp models, 17 cabs, and 12 reverbs for each voicing as well as other nice features.

3. get DT Edit (or the other one for Mac) and while your midi is still hooked up configure each voicing the way you like so you have the 8 amp/cab/reverb combinations you want loaded.  DT Edit is also where you can actually change the topology of each loaded model the way you want it too.

4. try loading a clean amp on channel A and a dirty on channel B and you can switch back and forth using a FS on your pedal board.

 

If you have any other questions just ask.

 

- DT reset procedures and midi guide - http://line6.com/media/dt50/DT_MIDIGuide_v2_0_RevA_English.pdf

 

- DT Edit downloads - http://line6.com/support/topic/124-user-created-dt-editors/

 

- DT 25/50 FAQ - http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/amplifiers/dt50dt25/dt50dt25-faq-r144

[Old-Rocker]

Thanks,Radatats.I've downloaded the info you posted & read the reset procedure,which looks like holding 2 switches while switching on & wait for the lights to stop flashing(always a tense moment).

I'll no doubt be asking more questions. :)

Well this was sooner than I thought,in the downloads section there are 2 different L6 Link Docs.a Rev 2.0 & a Rev 2.1,what do the rev 2.0 & 2.1,refer to,is it Amp or Pedal software?

I know i'm way ahead of myself,but spotted these & just curious,(for now :D )

[radatats]

 Well this was sooner than I thought,in the downloads section there are 2 different L6 Link Docs.a Rev 2.0 & a Rev 2.1,what do the rev 2.0 & 2.1,refer to,is it Amp or Pedal software?

 

This is basically just for connecting the HD500 or multiple DT's.  Just revision numbers for the manual I believe.  No big differences, use either one if you want.

[Old-Rocker]

Ok,thanks,so the revision is just the document.

Amps here :D

[Brazzy]

Ok,thanks,so the revision is just the document.

Amps here :D

 

Uh Oh Someone's about to have some good fun. I think your going to like it. If I could get a DT25 I would but I do have DT50 so I can still have at it, lol.

[BillBee]

Hmmmm poor guy, just suffer with the DT50. :)

[Brazzy]

Hmmmm poor guy, just suffer with the DT50. :)

 

I was hoping someone would notice that comment, lol. :)

 

Seriously though I'm looking for light amps as I get older and the DT25 would probably be perfect.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Brazzy

[BillBee]

My back agrees with that. :-)

[Brazzy]

My back agrees with that. :-)

 

Ya know? One day the body just tells you to say "NO" to liftin' heavy stuff, lol.

[geppert]

DT25 Head/Cab is the way to go IMHO. This coming from a certified old fart.

[Old-Rocker]

DT25 Head & Cab,is in the House :D

[BillBee]

Sweet - crank that puppy and rattle some glass. :)

[Old-Rocker]

Cheers,BillyBee.All i'll do is give it a quick check to make sure everything functions,then wait for band practice(or is it rehearsal).

You know it's funny,but when i started playing i played in a "Group' & there was 4 of us,now i play in a "Band" & there's only 3 of us. :D

i don't use an Amp in the house,well trained.  :)

[BillBee]

Excellent - I too have a "trainer" but she sends me downstairs. :)

 

Be sure to give a "band report" - I have been eyeing a DT myself but my "trainer" has me holding off till Christmas is bought/paid for. ;)

[geppert]

Congrats Rocker. If you don't have an HD500 buy a dual foot switch pedal so you can 1) switch between channels, and 2) turn Rev off/on.

 

Remember the Fender Preset is the quietest relative to all the others. I like it set clean on Channel 1 (Channel Vol up full) and then do a grunge on channel two with the volume relatively matched (by ear) to channel 1 maybe a bit louder (for solos). You will adjust the final volume on Channel 2 with the Channel Vol control and it will be a lot less than Channel 1. Then of course use the Master Vol for overall level. I also found that the "Gain" on the Fender amp setting does not grit up the sound all that much so you can use it at 1-2-3 o;clock to nudge a bit more overall volume out of the clean channel. Of course, depending on what style you play, you may not even need the Fender Clean preset?

 

Let us know how you make out ....