doug316

I could be wrong but I'd assume the sound is different when you place effects before the power amp, after it, after the cab, cab mic, etc.

I still think these amps are the best, despite having been all but abandoned by Line 6. I think Line 6 is trying to sell the idea of modeling the full rig, and not sending mixed messages by offering tube amps anymore. Get it while you can. I have two DT-25's and a DT-50 2x12. You can probably negotiate a great deal. I got my latest DT-25 for $400 brand new at GC. The DT's sound great if you just plug in a cable and go, perfectly blending the guitar-amp-cable of the old school while benefitting from all the flexibility of great pre-amp sims and true tube power. What more do you need, really? Vox, fender, marshall, boogie, they're all there. While I am still pretty furious that Line 6 refuses to offer support with the Helix (and some BS explanation about not being able to tell us whether they are working on it or not), the amp works great when you run into the FX return with whatever you want to replace the preamp with if you want something else. There are probably other options out there but I still think the DT25 sounds as good as any amp I have played, take my modest experience with a grain of salt.

When I try to install the latest Helix editor or the standalone Line 6 Updater, the verification process never makes any progress. The window says 'Verifying "Helix.pkg"' with nothing in the progress bar. Has anyone seen this?

Assuming you know about the $200 off promo: http://l6c-acdn.line6.net/data/6/0a06439ceca456feab6aaa231/application/pdf I think they're great amps. All the punch I need in the smallest package for a 1-12. I also have a DT50-212 and while I love it, it's so damn heavy. I couldn't resist picking up a backup at Guitar Center. They've had DT's on the floor for great deals, cheaper than used ones. I had seen one in there for $599 so when the above promo came online, I went in. They wanted $499 but I reminded them the promo was $200 off. After I told them I was only interested in having a backup and that $400 was my price, they finally agreed. They have been trying to unload these for a while. So anyway, Sweetwater, I don't know. But if I got mine for $400 I'm hoping you can do better than $800.

Taking the concept of a global EQ further, really I think there should be an independent set of input and output blocks that can be selected independently of presets. Maybe an EQ is good enough. I realize this affects the DSP budget but creating separate presets for different guitars seems impossible to maintain. Input block might vary per guitar, output block depending on where you are playing or into what system.

For me switching patches means the loop gets erased...

Sweet, thanks for this. Scored a second DT25-112 priced at $599 for $399 with a slight bit of haggling. Anybody interested in DT gear might want to call Guitar Center in San Ysidro, CA for some deals.

Does using channel B, and then manually selecting topologies, select among the (preamp?) voicings for I-IV? Or may some of these settings be redundant?

I think the point was valid. I'd bet margins are much higher, just that Helix has a lot higher development cost to be amortized. I'm crossing my fingers that Line 6 strategy was to test the market with a high-end product that would be priced high enough to support a longer lifetime with improvements over time. Helix is a great platform, but seems to be missing too many important features to realize its potential.

Sounds like you've got a dry signal from both the Eventide and in the FX loop.

I got a new one a couple months ago at Guitar Center for $600. I've seen 1-2 more priced that way, but online they are charging more. The manager acted really desperate to get rid of it.

Sounds like your pickups no?

Me too, the tempo panel periodically activates and deactivates since the 1.06 upgrade.

Ventilation and heat dissipation is an important issue when building a product like this. There's no telling how much margin they've built in to ensure all the components are kept within the specifications of each. All of these have margins and that can vary from chip to chip, unit to unit. I have seen products where they have convection simulations to demonstrate that airflow is generated and cooling is maintained properly given the placement of the boards, heat sources (semiconductors, etc.) and the vents. If you change a variable, the results are completely invalid. The hotter it runs, or the tighter the margins, the more you risk. So there's no telling! Thanks for posting. I too have mine on the carpet, I might need to put something flat underneath it.

I would agree that the operation of the controls is not intuitive at all.

Hey you have to brand your forearms with tattoos to show your commitment just the same!

Touche! But let's be honest, brand snobbery is very real, especially with vintage and classics.

Well said. I've been happy to see how preamps have evolved along with technology and happy to upgrade. But as far as a power section, I can't see how there will be innovations beyond what the DT series offer nor would I need it to with the exception of maybe stereo. I suppose Line 6 is just not seeing enough sales. I assume that tube purists are sticking with the classic brands, which let's be honest, garner more respect on stage.

Line 6 has a loyal customer base. I'm not sure they reciprocate. I think it's a big deal to promote the concept of a dream rig, but a bigger deal to abandon it without discussion. All of the people who were saying that Support is not a big deal are in my opinion just enabling Line 6 to abandon its own marketing and many of its customers. The message they are getting is that while there are a few whiners who kick and scream, the majority of its costumers will not hold them accountable to their long term vision and will even make excuses for them. So why would they behave any differently? Just know that if you buy a product from Line 6, count on less future support rather than more, especially since they're now owned by a company like Yamaha. I suppose we are lucky to even get firmware updates at all.

Are you going in to the front of the DT25 or the FX return?

Sound sample https://soundcloud.com/douggie-p/helix-asylum Helix -> DT50 212 FX return -> budget condenser mic -> Scarlet 6i6 -> Logic You'll notice the mild distortion on the opening note. I've heard this really move speakers on nice tube amps in the past, but the dynamics aren't sneaking through. Maybe some level meters in a future version would help. I'm thinking I need to drop the signal level down into the amp model and maybe bring it back up before the output. Will keep trying.

That may be true on the record. I'm not 100% convinced though. Something's still missing vs the real amp, and I'm not sure why there's clipping. Maybe I need to try the Bassman...

I've dialed in a really great Metallica Master of Puppets clean tone, with one exception. That first strong E note of Sanitarium captures how the real amp sounds, super strong yet lean on the low end. In my case, I get clipping and none of the strong bottom end. I addressed other EQ but can't get rid of the clipping nor the bass response I'd expect. Anybody have any insight?

I agree more generally. It would be great is there were a global mixer block that sat in front and in back of every patch so you could put volume pedals, noise gates, fx loops, etc across all patches.

I was worried, but figured for the price of return shipping, if necessary, would be worth it worst-case. Best case, a Helix for $1226!