How do you set your volumes?

[GenoBluzGtr]

I'm curious how everyone sets their volumes for gigging live via FRFR?

 

When I build my patches, I set my main output volume (the big knob) to Noon-ish, and Don't use any global EQ (I save that for adjusting to the rooms I gig in).   

 

I also set the gain on my powered PA speaker to noonish.   

 

I have the outputs of both my 1/4" and both XLRs at the same (adjusted by the main volume).

 

I don't do stereo paths, so I run one XLR out to the FOH and the other to my FRFR.   FOH gets same volume as my FRFR.

 

Then I adjust volumes of each patch to as close to equal as I can get (by ear), and use a volume block on the output of the amp to make real-time tweaks of the volumes at each gig.  

 

My rationale, is that I play different small to medium venues, and the overall volume requirements vary... some places we can 'rock out' and some places we have to keep it lower.   If I make big adjustments to my FRFR gain or my overall output volume, it changes (colors) my patches differently.  Something that is "warm" at 'noon' get's ice-picky if I have to turn up... and something that sounds punch and clear at noon gets muddy if I have to turn it down too much.

 

So, is this an 'okay' way to do it? or am I missing something that would make my rig sound more natural? or better to work with?  I don't have any complaints, but I know there are different ways to do this and want to make sure I'm optimizing my options.

 

So I'm curious how everyone else does it, and what you think the impact of YOUR way would be if I change from my way to that method?

 

[DunedinDragon]

I pretty much use the same settings as you do.  I set the volume level on my DXR12 to noon, but I have my Helix master volume set to roughly 11 o'clock.  I sometimes go a bit higher on my Helix master especially if I'm not going through a PA.  But that's fairly rare, and even on the largest stages I've never even come close to noon on the Helix master.

 

I use 1/4" Mono out to my DXR12 on stage and XLR Mono out direct to the FOH with an inline phantom power blocker on the cable.  In my global settings I have my 1/4" out set to Line level, my XLR out is set to Mic level, and my Volume Knob Controls is set to 1/4" only.  That ensures the FOH receives a consistent signal level via the XLR output regardless of what adjustment I may make on the 1/4" out to my DXR12 on stage monitor via the Helix master volume knob, and also ensures my signal is generally consistent with all other XLR inputs coming into the board and thus easier to gain stage.

 

At home when I'm dialing in presets I set my Helix master volume to 11 o'clock and I have a 1/4" out going into a DI box in which I'm feeding a 1/4" cable to my DXR12 speaker, and an XLR signal into one channel of a small 4 channel Alesis mixer used solely for measuring the XLR signal level output as I adjust the preset volume.  I have the gain on that Alesis channel set to noon and I try to adjust my preset's volume so that it measures roughly -6db on the mixer which is about right in line with my normal target stage volume.

 

Once I'm at rehearsal or sound check I may do some "by the ear" adjustments within the presets but those generally are fairly small adjustments as our band has a pretty firm grasp on stage volume so there's not much change necessary.  I've been using this process now for close to a year and it's very predictable across FOH systems as well as smaller venues in which we don't put the instruments through the PA.

[jbuhajla]

Big knob set to 2:00 (doesn't really matter, just gives me a little headroom). Helix connected to Reaper via USB. I pull up the mixer on Reaper to get a nice big meter on the screen. Playing through two JBL Eon 610's at home at a pretty decent volume to get close to "gig" level as reasonably possible (to make adjustments to actual tone). If you are connected to a DAW via USB, the big volume knob doesn't effect volume going to USB. So, going through this exercise "normalizes" your overall volumes, but you can adjust what you send to FOH with the volume knob. 

 

Now I play the following combinations, hitting a really strong open A chord (just to stay consistant). I look to get right around -12dB on the meter, just after the initial peak. 

 

amp only

compressor, amp

OD1, amp

OD2, amp

amp w/combinations of time based effects, adjust level of time based effects as needed

whatever I am using for a "lead tone" to show -10dB on the meter

 

If you then turn on both overdrives, it may go just a bit over -12dB, but not much

 

I then tweak as needed during rehearsal. 

[silverhead]

...

I use 1/4" Mono out to my DXR12 on stage and XLR Mono out direct to the FOH with an inline phantom power blocker on the cable.  In my global settings I have my 1/4" out set to Line level, my XLR out is set to Mic level, and my Volume Knob Controls is set to 1/4" only.  That ensures the FOH receives a consistent signal level via the XLR output regardless of what adjustment I may make on the 1/4" out to my DXR12 on stage monitor via the Helix master volume knob, and also ensures my signal is generally consistent with all other XLR inputs coming into the board and thus easier to gain stage.

 

....

 

I have highlighted what I think is perhaps the most important point. Once the sound guy has determined that the level you are sending the FOH is appropriate it's his job to balance the mix levels of all inputs. Nothing you do to adjust your stage monitor level for yourself should affect the FOH send level.

[GenoBluzGtr]

Thanks for these tips.  We RARELY play anywhere that uses a "sound guy", the PA is on stage with us and I am usually the one making adjustments... essentially set during sound check, and then only if we have issues (feedback, someone's vocals or monitor needs a nudge, etc).  So I'm looking for consistency, since making dynamic adjustments mid-song is quite difficult.   

 

I HAVE noticed that with my set up (big volume controls both 1/4" and XLR outs) I am generally keeping the mixer slider on my Helix signal down pretty low to make it fit with the mix well.  I'm monitoring through my own vocal monitor to make sure there's not too much of 'me' in the mix, and my FRFR (behind me) to give me the sound I want on stage.  Get's kind difficult.  

 

I want to eventually just plug my own stage-mix into Channel B of my vocal monitor so I have as much of "me" as I want, and then mix the FOH signal to be right in the overall mix, but I can see that being difficult If I'm listening to both my overall mix (Channel A) and my "me" tone (Channel B) through the same monitor. 

[DunedinDragon]

Thanks for these tips.  We RARELY play anywhere that uses a "sound guy", the PA is on stage with us and I am usually the one making adjustments... essentially set during sound check, and then only if we have issues (feedback, someone's vocals or monitor needs a nudge, etc).  So I'm looking for consistency, since making dynamic adjustments mid-song is quite difficult.   

 

I HAVE noticed that with my set up (big volume controls both 1/4" and XLR outs) I am generally keeping the mixer slider on my Helix signal down pretty low to make it fit with the mix well.  I'm monitoring through my own vocal monitor to make sure there's not too much of 'me' in the mix, and my FRFR (behind me) to give me the sound I want on stage.  Get's kind difficult.  

 

I want to eventually just plug my own stage-mix into Channel B of my vocal monitor so I have as much of "me" as I want, and then mix the FOH signal to be right in the overall mix, but I can see that being difficult If I'm listening to both my overall mix (Channel A) and my "me" tone (Channel B) through the same monitor. 

 

This is why Silverhead emphasized the importance of having the signal going into the board isolated from the Helix master volume.

 

The idea is the same whether you have a sound man or you do it yourself.  If the signal level coming into the board is consistent for all the instruments and will remain that way, setting up the mix is very simple and requires very little attention throughout the gig.  In our case when we gain stage during sound checks we set all the faders at unity.  Then using the PFL button on each channel we use the gain to establish the correct level of the signal for each instrument relative to the other instruments using the signal meter.  For example you may set the vocal channels to a peak of +2db over unity and the guitar channel to -2db under unity, and drums to a peak of unity.  In our case we determine these levels based on the levels determined when we mix and master a recording.  In this way with all faders at unity your FOH should be close to an ideal mix and you only need to adjust your board's master fader for the volume level you need in the room.  Therefore any change you make in your stage monitor volume won't affect that signal level going to the board and the mix will remain consistent at the board.  You may still have to adjust faders slightly on vocals if someone is singing lead and another is singing backup, but short of that we never have to touch the actual faders during performance.  Doing it this way once you set your monitor levels, you won't have to make any adjustments typically because the mix going into the board doesn't change.

 

Ultimately this reduces the need to make adjustments at the board throughout the performance because you've established your mix levels at gain staging time, and they won't change even if you turn up your Helix master volume.

[amsdenj]

For example you may set the vocal channels to a peak of +2db over unity and the guitar channel to -2db under unity, and drums to a peak of unity.

 

You might consider gain staging each of the input at between -18 and -12 dB, especially if you're using a digital mixer. This give plenty of headroom in each channel to avoid any (digital) clipping. But it also ensures that at the some of all those channels doesn't clip your master bus or any of the monitor busses. 

[DunedinDragon]

You might consider gain staging each of the input at between -18 and -12 dB, especially if you're using a digital mixer. This give plenty of headroom in each channel to avoid any (digital) clipping. But it also ensures that at the some of all those channels doesn't clip your master bus or any of the monitor busses. 

Yeah...this is just a quick and dirty example.  In reality all that matters is the relative signal levels (difference of signal levels between different channels) and I leave the actual levels to the discretion of the sound man as he knows his equipment and what works best on it.  I just tend to give him a rough idea of relative signal levels and what works best for our mix.

[ricstudioc]

2 Alto TS110's in floor monitor position, set to 12 o'clock.  Helix 1/4" to them, big volume at 12 to start, with big volume knob only affecting the 1/4".  Consistent level to board.  I have control over my stage level, sound guy has the FOH.

[marcorosasnet]

More than 1 year old, but no need to create a new thread.
First gig with Helix. Volume ate noon (controls xlr and 1/4), perfect for FOH but stage volume was a little painfull. Im using a QSC CP8, 1000w peak. On rehearsal it was fine, but on stage had to put it around 2 o'clock. Not the nicest sound

Any advice since i think 2 o'clock is too much

[codamedia]

20 minutes ago, marcorosasnet said:

Volume ate noon (controls xlr and 1/4), perfect for FOH but stage volume was a little painfull.

 

Separate the volume control from the FOH. You don't want the feed to the house changing every time you adjust the volume for yourself on stage.

 

22 minutes ago, marcorosasnet said:

On rehearsal it was fine, but on stage had to put it around 2 o'clock. Not the nicest sound

Any advice since i think 2 o'clock is too much

 

There could be multiple issues at play.

• The QSC you own is an 8".... that won't provide a lot of depth on a stage and may not be able to project the sound you want as you turn up. If that is what's happening then that is just the limit of the speaker itself. 
• Another issue some people have is when they prepare their sounds at lower volumes then turn up. You should always prepare your sounds at stage volume then turn down as required. 
• If it is the HELIX you are turning up from "noon to 2" make sure you are not clipping the input on the speaker. If you are... you need to adjust the signal chain levels appropriately - for the loudest situation you will be in. 

[DunedinDragon]

I personally use a CP8 myself, but it's normally in smaller venues where I don't need to turn up too much.  It's got plenty of sound and can easily fill most rooms if it's mounted on a stand behind me, but it does tend to hit the limiter fairly quickly if you feed it too much signal.  I normalize all my patches with the Helix master volume knob at around 11 o'clock which is pretty much the max signal I want to send to my monitor whether it's the CP8 or the Yamaha DXR12 in larger setups.  I rarely find I need to turn up and most of the time I ended up turning it down a bit.  I keep both my CP8 and my DXR12 set at noon or unity and never change that as that really does invite the limiter to kick in.  From what I can tell I'm pretty safe turning up the CP8 to around 2 o'clock, but I try not to press it.

I also configure my global ins/outs so that I feed my stage monitors a line level signal and have the XLR L/Mono not affected by the Helix master volume and send it to the board at Mic level, which is what most boards are used to working with.  That sends the XLR L/Mono to the FOH as if the Helix volume knob is turned full up, but since it's a Mic level signal it's pretty easy for the soundman to gain stage it appropriately and any adjustments I make on stage to my monitors via the Helix volume knob won't affect the soundman's signal level.

[marcorosasnet]

Ill need to check my level outputs then.

Report back when done.

Thanks guys