Getting a fuller sound?

[homegrownbuddy]

I have watched many a youtube video of guys using the helix for this and that, and they always seem to get a much fuller richer sound than I do. I have come a long way in understanding some of the caveats of the helix. However I still don't understand what is getting in my way here, I half suspect it is down to global EQ settings. I am curious, would any of you fine gentlemen be willing to post a screenshot of your global EQ settings to give me an idea of where I might be going wrong.  For what it's worth I am pushing a Strat through the helix lt into a blackstar 50w. In theory it should sound pretty beasty. But it just sounds buzzy and thin compared to what I hear elsewhere.  YouTube compression aside, could I just have the wrong global EQ settings? I wish I could figure out how to post my settings here but the last time I posted a pic in a forum...photobucket was the hot sh*t . Yeah..I'm  computer "old" ...any help would be much appreciated.  FWIW I am set at 1m impedance and don't seem to be clipping at all.  Even when I match the settings step for step with the guys it always just sounds thin.  I'm not sure what else to look at beyond global EQ at this point. 

[robbieb61]

I'm getting a monster fat sound...and I don't touch the globals at all.  BUT...I moved away from going into an amp (I'm assuming you are going out of the Helix and into the effects return of your Blackstar to access straight to the power amp), and now I use a BOSE L1 FRFR setup.
I also use an IR instead of the Helix cab. And I put a High Cut at 5k on the IR

[rd2rk]

If you're using a Helix preamp only amp version into your Blackstar's fx return, try using a full amp, with and without cab. Logically, a preamp into your amp's return should be ideal, but I always thought that sounded thin and buzzy/fizzy.

[homegrownbuddy]

Thanks for the reply, I have actually tried a few things. Going helix-return. going helix- straight to input- and even bypassing the blackstar head altogether thinking that may have been the culprit. I honestly think I just mooked with the global EQ  at some point and got it on the thin side. I could probably start from scratch but just seeing some of your global eq screens would help me spot the issue.  I'm honestly not as concerned with fattening up the sound as I am with just understanding how I thinned it. I'm trying to learn the subtle nuances of the device and understanding just what went wrong will help me more than a quick fix. 

[Doug6String]

I think most folks here agree that one should use global eq to compensate for different live playing environments.  I'd be shocked if very many people use it for their daily sound (always exceptions, of course).  And I think this is obvious unless you don't record, but in most video with a great sound, it isn't a single guitar through a Helix played in mono.  They use all the techniques of recording at their disposal and that gives a huge sound.  I play at home and  write and record my own music, but when I'm jamming I typically use one of a couple methods to give me a big stereo sound - dual delay or dual paths with a pitch shift.  If either of those presets would be useful, send me a message with your email and I'm happy to send them.

[FullMotion]

I run my Helix through my tube amps often and I am very happy with the tones I get. I rarely use the global EQ, so I would suggest turning it off and only using it for adjusting to the room you are performing in.

The Helix is at unity gain with the big volume knob all the way up. This is the first thing I would suggest you try. Also, be sure you have any cabinet and IR blocks bypassesd. You didn't mention if you are running in the front of the amp, in to an effects loop, or 4 cable method. This info could help with troubleshooting. 

[rvroberts]

You have way to many variables in this discussion.  There is

A - going into the input of the amp,

B- going into the effects return and

C - 4 cable method.

You don't even say what model of Blackstar you use. There are fully traditional tube Blackstar amps and full simulation models (basically a stripped down helix into an FRFR system).

So anything anyone says here could be way off course.

What comes out of the Helix needs to be channeled into a frequency and sound environment that (in most cases) simulates a real amp and effects in a traditional setup.

So people address the frequency response and characteristics of a real speaker box by using an IR and EQ - you can do the EQ in lots of places in the Helix.  Using EQ in the effects chain, in the IR or cab model or in global EQ - and you can get the same result either way, as long as it is after the amp/cab combo.  

However feeding into a traditional Tube amp, you don't normally do that at all - the amp is doing that part for you.  Into a modelling amp, all bets are off - you need to know how it's doing what it is doing.  The return on your amp might be very similar to an FRFR system, or it might be adding a tube power stage and a speaker that interact to produce a different (traditional) effect.  Normally, you would only feed classic effects pedals (I mean the Helix simulations of) into the guitar input - no amps or speaker simulations.  If you amp has models of its own, then that is how you would use the Helix.  You might be able to use the Return, but you then need to know what it is doing to the sound - normally that is where you would put stuff you don't want coloured like reverb and delay.  You would normally not use amp models with a guitar amp at all, although it is possible and can work (depending!!).

[DunedinDragon]

First things first...TURN OFF YOUR GLOBAL EQ.  Let's get that out of the way right now so it's not confusing the issue.  If you don't know how to do it simply hold down the BYPASS button for a couple of seconds until the little rectangle graph next to the Snapshots icons disappears.  This way you won't be worrying about global eq affecting your sound.

Next get a DECENT pair of headsets and listen to your patch.  If it still sounds thin, check some of the factory presets and see how they sound to you.  If those are sounding okay through the headphones the issue is how you have the amp output setup.  If the factory presets sound okay but your preset doesn't you've got something messed up in your preset.

There's really no use going any further until you've figured out where the problem lies.  There are some good recommendations here, but everyone is still guessing at how you have your sound routed so it's best to settle that first.

[homegrownbuddy]

5 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

First things first...TURN OFF YOUR GLOBAL EQ.  Let's get that out of the way right now so it's not confusing the issue.  If you don't know how to do it simply hold down the BYPASS button for a couple of seconds until the little rectangle graph next to the Snapshots icons disappears.  This way you won't be worrying about global eq affecting your sound.

Thanks man, I tried this today and it really added more punch to the sound. I still don't fully understand exactly how I managed to get it so far out of whack and to make matters more interesting, the moment I disabled the global eq I suddenly remembered how it used to sound. So it's probably been set that way for some time without me even really thinking about it too much. So I think I will have to go back and adjust all of my patches to accommodate and in the future just stick an eq block for tweaking instead of mucking around in the global. 

[hideout]

12 hours ago, rd2rk said:

Logically, a preamp into your amp's return should be ideal, but I always thought that sounded thin and buzzy/fizzy.

Yup, that's preamp distortion for ya.  Me No Likey.