kerryhall1 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 I took the plunge and bought a Helix. I am beyond stoked for this thing. So I'm just wondering...how do I set the correct output volume level? On pg 9 of the manual it just says "Slowly turn up the volume". Well...imagine the signal in the processor is super hot, but the master vol is low, the volume in the room will be loud enough but I'm guessing there is going to be some clipping somewhere along the chain. Conversely, if the signal in the processor is super low, but the master vol is high, it's possible the SNR is a lot lower in that configuration. So what is optimum here for a high SNR? Should I be shooting for noon? (And tweaking slightly as needed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolko60 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 As far as I can figure it out, the Volume Knob controls analog attenuator for chosen Hx outputs. If this is the case, when you have clipping at DSP chain or DA converter, Volume Knob can not help you. It can protect only overdrive of next input Hx is connected to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 First off, SNR is somewhat irrelevant in the digital world. That's more of an artifact to be worried about in the analog and tube amp era. From what I can tell from user comments on the forums here and elsewhere, most people are choosing an arbitrary master volume setting and sticking with it for dialing in their tones. Most of the time it ranges between 10 o'clock to maybe 3 o'clock on the master volume dial. I personally set mine at 11 o'clock just to ensure I have plenty of headroom space up or down as needed on stage. I then dial in my patches and snapshots so that they are typically in the -6 DB range using the signal meters on a small mixer I have hooked up to my unit. In live scenarios that typically works out about right for medium sized stages. For smaller stages I go down to around 10 to 10:30 and on bigger stages I've gone up to as much as 12 or 12:30 on the master volume dial. Note that I've specified my global ins/outs that my XLR outputs aren't to be affected by my master volume and are set to mic level so they can easily be gain staged at the mixer without being affected by my Helix master volume setting. I have well over 200 presets I've built and I've never had any clipping on any of them unless someone at the mixing board wasn't gain staging appropriately. They're all good clean signals on the 1/4" and XLR outs and can easily be worked with direct to a monitor as well as to a mixer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Here's one bottom line which might help. The Master volume knob is setup such that it is unity gain when it is turned all the way up. What does that mean? I'm glad you asked that. It means that if there are no blocks in your path, the level you put into the Helix will be reflected at the output. In fact when you disengage the Master volume from controllin the XLR ouptuts, 1/4" ouputs or both, those outputs then act as if the Master volume was turned all the way up. That's how I do it since my XLR's are disengaged from the Master volume knob. In fact the comment that the Master volume acts as an attenuator is correct. It doesn't ever boost the signal, it only makes it lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolko60 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 minute ago, brue58ski said: The Master volume knob is setup such that it is unity gain when it is turned all the way up True for line level input, line level output pair and instrument level input, instrument level output pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, zolko60 said: True for line level input, line level output pair and instrument level input, instrument level output pair. Sorry yes. Should have included that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 44 minutes ago, zolko60 said: True for line level input, line level output pair and instrument level input, instrument level output pair. 33 minutes ago, brue58ski said: Sorry yes. Should have included that. I/O pairs are irrelevant. They are not meant to work as a team, they are meant to match the input and output device independently. EG: You cannot accomplish UNITY output when both I/O are set to instrument and you plug a LINE source (who's output is set to unity) to the input! In that case, changing the input to LINE will accomplish UNITY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolko60 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, codamedia said: I/O pairs are irrelevant. They are not meant to work as a team, they are meant to match the input and output device. No. The unity gain is for input/output team. What comes in, comes out at no gain change. 4 minutes ago, codamedia said: You cannot accomplish UNITY output when both I/O are set to instrument and you plug a LINE source to the input! Yes you can. If line level signal is within the headroom, there is no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 One of the premises of unity gain is that the input, output and source settings are the same in regards to line, mic or instrument. That's just audio 101. I was just trying to make a simple way of thinking about how to set the Master volume, not get into a lesson on input and output levels. I just don't have the time for that. Regarding this statement, " You cannot accomplish UNITY output when both I/O are set to instrument and you plug a LINE source to the input! ", I would submit that technically you would. It would kind of be the same as if you had a mic going into a mic level input and had a mic level output but put the mic in front of a jet engine. It would just become very distorted and probably be limited/compressed by the input's circuitry and it would reflect that level at the output. The Helix itself would add no gain once the signal went through the convertors. This is still an oversimplification of what's going on but i don't have a semester to teach you all what little I know about audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Sorry guys... you are correct in terms of unity. I tend to (incorrectly) associate unity with the final output level (eg: reaching 0 on a traditional input meter... - 14 or so on a digital meter), not the 1 to 1 relationship it truly represents. Sorry... I didn't mean to derail the thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryhall1 Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 Thanks everyone! I think I'll just set it around noon, to give the most adjustment headroom in either direction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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