Helix Floor, Rack, Stomp, Pod Go, Quad Cortex ... need some advice / input with buying decision

[schildkroete]

Hello,

 

I am completely new to modelers and to this forum, and I am looking for some advice for a buying decision...

 

I recently got myself a nice Strat, after not having played an electric guitar at all for almost 30 years, just classical acoustic most of the time.

 

I have not yet decided on any amp solution though, because I was slightly overwhelmed of the complexity of that decision. Soundwise, I thought I'd be very happy with a Fender Deluxe Reverb, with some nice effect pedals to choose from. But after some testing, I found that the Deluxe would be way too loud for me playing mostly alone and at home, mostly in bedroom volume levels because of the neighbors.

 

After lots of reading, watching youtube and some testing I have come to the decision that a modeler like the Helix is probably exactly what I would need at the moment.

 

At the moment, I am considering the following options:

- Helix Floor
- Helix Rack + Control
- Helix Stomp
- Pod Go
- Neural DSP Quad Cortex
- Something completely different that I don't yet know or haven't thought about?

 

I am not really in a hurry with the decision. But I don't know if I really can wait until the Cortex (and good reviews, hopefully) come out in November either... I really, really like that the Cortex will be a lot smaller than the Helix, with a lot more power and maybe even better sound, and with better usability due to the touchscreen, more functionality, and all that for the same price. I am somewhat hesitant with buying into the Helix because it's already 5 years old, and a guy in a shop told me that he's expecting an upgrade ("Helix 2"?) soon (probably in 2020). Another thing I think I won't like with the Helix floor is that it's so huge and that the pedal is integrated, I'd rather have that as a seperate option.

 

Ok, here's what I'm expecting to be using it for:

I would love to be able to simultaneously use an electric guitar and maybe one other guitar (acoustic or bass) and/or a microphone for voice, each with its own amp-sim and effects.
I do not want to dive into too complicated menus each I use it and I don't want to have to use a computer or smartphone for configuration. Ease of use, good realistc tube-amp-like sounds with nice effects to choose from, durability and reliability are what I'm looking for since I want to concentrate on playing guitar and making music, not on studying computer manuals.  ;-)
Of course, I probably won't need 80% (or even more) of the effects and possibilities these units have to offer. Another thing that I think I really need is a good looper functionality, where I can record one loop and play over that but with a different sound / effect. Is that even possible? Does the Helix Stomp has a looper? Does it work ok with so few buttons?
I would also use it as an interace for the computer and for recording and in this setting I would probably use the re-amping funcionality (if I understand that correctly, that means I can record the guitar completely dry and make changes on the modeler while in playback-mode and record the output to a new track?!)

 

I am irritated that so many people say that you need to download IRs for the Helix. As far as I understand, an IR is quite the same as a cab simulation? Many people write that they have thousands of them in use. Having no experience with this, I suspect it would be an awkward and painful process to listen through thousands (!) of different cab-sims (for me, anyway). I'd rather have it sound good right out of the box... But maybe I don't understand that correctly.

 

 

So... what would be your advice? Wait for the Cortex or the Helix2 ? Buy the Stomp or PodGo (knowing that they cannot be used for a microphone/voice) to bridge the months until the winter holidays and then resell it on ebay? Do these modelers have any resale-value at all?

What FRFR speaker would you recommend for home/bedroom use? I'm thinking about the headrush 108 at the moment...

 

Unfortunately there is no shop near me where I can try these devices out, so I have to gather as much information as I can get before I can make that decision...

I appreciate any thoughts and advice on this!!! Thanks!

[phil_m]

Well, I can assure you that there is no Helix 2 coming out in 2020, and not for a good while yet (and I don't think that when the time comes for a successor to the Helix to be released, that it will be called a Helix 2...).

 

As far as the Quad Cortex, I'm not sure what you're expecting people on the Line 6 forums to say about it. I played their prototype at NAMM and was underwhelmed, but it wasn't even what I'd call half-baked... It was more like "just put into the oven". So right now, it's very much a pig in a poke. I would take any of their delivery estimates with a huge grain of salt, personally, especially given the current economic climate.

 

Regarding IRs, they're kind of an audio snapshot of a specific cab and mic combination. There are tons available because there are tons of iterations of the same cab and mic in different positions, the same cab with different mics, multiple mics, etc. The Helix comes with Line 6's hybrid cabs, which are kind of parametricized IRs, in a way (they use less DSP than a traditional 2048 sample IR file, though). I don't think you have to use third party IRs with the Helix. I use a few, but the majority of my presets are using the Helix cabs. If people have IRs they know they like, the Helix (or POD Go) makes it easy to use them... All of the cab/mic modeling on the Quad Cortex is IR-based as well.

[Melissiah]

Helix floor 

my only regret: I waited 3 years before buying mine

 

I have my mic on path 1

elec gtr on path 2

acoustic gtr on path 3

bass on path 4

 

this thing is a beast and worth every single penny.

4 musicians on the same pedalboard 

[rd2rk]

46 minutes ago, schildkroete said:

I'd rather have it sound good right out of the box...

 

What sounds good is totally subjective. What sounds good to me might sound awful to you. Asking that kind of question (Which one sounds best?) will get you nothing but a thousand meaningless opinions. Spend 15 minutes over on The Gear Page in the Digital and Modeling forum, where all of your questions have been asked dozens of times, and you'll see what I mean. Bring aspirin!

 

Start by getting a decent set of monitors. I use Rokit6, but Yamaha, JBL and MANY others make totally acceptable monitors. Decide how much you want to spend, check the PROFESSIONAL reviews and specs and go for it! I live in an apartment, and the 6 inch Rokits are plenty loud and have enough bass to sound good. I wouldn't get anything less than 5".

 

The new PODGO series will sound just like the more expensive units in the series and will be MUCH simpler to use.

 

You don't say where you are, but "no shop near me" means you'll either buy something used locally, or buy online from someone with a good return policy. Unfortunately, no matter how much research you do, all you'll get is personal opinions like "I use this or that, it's the best!" You're going to have to go through the same process as most all of us did.

Start cheap and try things until you find something you like. The level of complexity of these devices tends to increase with cost, but "costs more" does NOT necessarily equate to "sounds better".

 

Don't worry about IRs. It's a rabbit hole full of "Tone-sniffers" who'll argue endlessly over who makes the best. More opinions, more cost, more wasted time. 

The built-in Helix cabs sound just fine. And that's MY opinion.

 

The one thing that I would recommend as a basic requirement is that the unit you decide on should be able to be used as an Audio Interface. You'll eventually want to record yourself and play along to backing tracks and streaming music services. Most modern modelers have this ability.

 

Good Luck and Have Fun!

[rd2rk]

Here's a really good and very relevant post, The poster is very active, and one of the more reasonable and knowledgeable posters on TGP.

 

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/the-differences-can-be-negligible.2135974/#post-30293157

[DunedinDragon]

You're going to run into a LOT of people with strong opinions of what sounds best, but as the above post from rd2k most of the differences are pretty negligible.  It's kind of like the DAW wars, all the DAWs do the same job as far as recording, but once you choose one and learn it, that's probably the one you'll stick with because you know it and can get what you want out of it.
 

So the real questions come down to how much time and interest do you have to spend on understanding how to get the most out of ANY modeler?  Modelers all do the same general things, but at varying degrees of control and complexity.  The Helix Floor or Rack + Control would give you many more options for more complex setups and sounds than say the Stomp or the Pod Go, but do you think that will be important to you?  If not now, will it be important in the near future?  That's really the decision.

I actually have two Helix Floor units.  One is for live performance and one is for studio work and a backup to my live unit.  When I got my 2nd unit for the studio, I possibly could have gone for the LT or maybe even the stomp.  But I chose the Floor because it had all the additional inputs and outputs that would allow me to simultaneously plug in my guitar, acoustic, bass, keyboard and mic to the unit as well as a dedicated headphone volume control which is invaluable in one-person studio recording and overdubs which allowed me to streamline my recording process which I wouldn't be able to do on the smaller units.  I could have done those things on the smaller units, but it wouldn't have been as easy.

So ultimately it's going to be driven by what you really NEED and WANT to do with the unit to decide how much pf a unit you're going to really need.

As far as IRs I'm quite certain I could get by with the stock cabinets, but the driving factor for me using IRs is they're faster to implement.  I have about 40 or 50 loaded and I probably only really use about 20 or 30 consistently.  But it took me a while to decide on the ones that best fit my needs (in effect what mic combinations and placements tend to sound the best to my ear on my patches).  By having those IRs I don't have to play around with the parameters on a stock cabinet, I can easily just roll through my IRs and see what sounds best on any given patch I'm working on.

The one thing you probably won't be happy with on the Helix will be the loop capabilities.  It's very limited at this point and you'd likely want to use some external loop box if you're planning on doing anything very complex.  I'd also encourage you to spend some time researching your output devices.  If it's mostly in-house and recording and no live jam sessions or such you'd probably want to go with studio monitors.  But in the speaker world you tend to get what you pay for, and i personally don't see the logic in attaching a premium level modeler to bargain basement speakers if you want to get the most out of your modeling experience.

 

[schildkroete]

Wow, thank you all so much for your advice and for the time you spent answering my questions! I didn't expect to get so many helpful answers in such a short time!!!

 

So, about IRs - that was really helpful and I'm kind of relieved to hear that. I probably could spend a long time with a Helix before missing something at all....

 

I didn't know you could use 4 independent signal paths, I thought only 2 - that's great, most of the time I will only need 1 or 2 anyways.

 

What about the looper... in what ways is it limited? I guess that won't be a dealbreaker for me if I can just play 1 or 2 layers that last up to 2 minutes or so and can have different sounds / effects.

 

Yes, the Cortex ... I don't know exactly what I was thinking, I know that it's not out yet, but I guess I was just so impressed by their marketing website and it just sounds like it's the last modeler/effects unit that one would ever need. And I quite like that it's just a smaller box than the Helix.

But that was so good to hear some first hand experience from somebody who already had a first look at the current status of the Cortex!

Also, I was thinking that Line6 seems to keep bringing useful updates to the Helix at no cost, and I was wondering how long they will keep doing this, because why would they if they're not getting paid for it? Some people seem to be upset already because an expected update is keeping longer than expected. IBut  don't know if that should be a concern for me...

 

Yes, I would have to order a Helix online, that's why I'm trying to get as much information as I can, because after spending so much money I want to be happy with it for - I don't know - at least 5 years or so.

 

I have seen from reviews on websites and from youtube videos that most people seem to favour the Helix floor over the rack version. I was thinking that I would prefer the rack, because I could change settings while it sits on a table or so and I wouldnt have to bow down everytime I want to tweak something (which will probably be quite often). Maybe that's why I also see many people having a Helix floor on a desk and not using their feet for the switches...

 

I'm a bit confused about that ... What are the main advantages between the Floor and the Rack version? I know that the Rack plus the Control plus a pedal is a bit more expensive, but that's really not much. Also, I would have to use 2 more cables with the rack version.

I'm thinking that the Rack is more comfortable to operate and maybe more durable because the main unit is safer more away from dirt and feet and whatever on the floor. Is the slightly lower price the only advantage why most people get the Floor?

 

At the moment, I guess I'm leaning toward a Helix Rack, but that's unavailable most of the time in Europe. So I keep reading and watching videos for the time being.... ;-)

Thanks again for any input that will help me a lot with my decision!!!

[rd2rk]

13 minutes ago, schildkroete said:

I'm a bit confused about that ... What are the main advantages between the Floor and the Rack version? I know that the Rack plus the Control plus a pedal is a bit more expensive, but that's really not much. Also, I would have to use 2 more cables with the rack version.

I'm thinking that the Rack is more comfortable to operate and maybe more durable because the main unit is safer more away from dirt and feet and whatever on the floor. Is the slightly lower price the only advantage why most people get the Floor?

 

Consider a real world scenario. Your loaded analog pedalboard can easily have 2k worth of pedals on it. Depending on whether you're using 4cm or not, lots of wires. If you think about it, it's a pretty fragile thing. The Helix LT is pretty sturdy. The Helix Floor is nearly indestructible. Place it on your side of your floor monitor, it should be protected from all but the most determined of the drunken savages in the audience.

 

ITRW, between songs you may have to bend over between MANY songs to adjust effects. Presets and Snapshots eliminate most of that. Many times IRL you'll have to run back to your amp to make adjustments, then back up front, back and forth. You'd have to do the same with a Helix Rack. Not so with a Floor, all the adjustments are right there at your feet. Sure, you have to bend over. Let's see, bend over vs run back and forth? No brainer for me. At home or in the studio, bring a laptop, run HX Edit, no bending at all.

 

The Rack/Controller rig may have some advantages in the studio like dedicated DI out, but that's all I can think of. Somebody who owns one may know more.

 

Consider setup. Arrive at the gig with guitar in one hand, FRFR in the other, Helix Floor, wireless, cables, etc in the Helix backpack on your back. One trip in, one trip out.

The rack will require, well, a RACK! and a carrier for the controller and Expression pedal(s), wires, wireless, etc. Add guitar, FRFR.......

 

I vote Helix Floor!

 

 

 

[DunedinDragon]

17 hours ago, schildkroete said:

What about the looper... in what ways is it limited? I guess that won't be a dealbreaker for me if I can just play 1 or 2 layers that last up to 2 minutes or so and can have different sounds / effects.

 

 

 

I personally don't use the looper, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to meet your stated needs.  From what I gather most people that use a looper use an external one with greater capabilities and is easier to use than what's on the Helix.