Disappointed, I get a better sound with Podfarm.

[codamedia]

5 hours ago, lock84 said:

 

Good idea

OFF :

https://voca.ro/18kwj5PJ06TH

 

ON : (with the exact setting of my screenshot in the first post, but it sounds better with 10% in delay and predelay)

https://voca.ro/11HfvlwhUAwu

 

("Gary Moore - Shapes of things to come" solo, sorry my hands are a little cold :) )

 

Although the tone control is full on the reverb (settings in your opening post) it appears to be rolling off the tone of the guitar track, not just bathing it in wetness. I will have to check my XT Live when I get a moment to see if the plate reverb behaves like that as well. 

 

IMO - I wouldn't have any problem replicating this in the Helix.... but you already returned your LT so I don't think any tips will help :) 

 

 

 

[gunpointmetal]

TL;DR: I've done the 'verb trick in POD Farm and IMO it's no revelation, IMO. If it works better for you, that's what you should use.

 

POD Farm owner, Helix Floor/Native owner here. There's no special sauce in POD Farm, some of the sounds are good (bass especially), but nothing you can't get out of Helix. As far as a "feel" thing, there's no way anyone will ever be able to confirm or deny if one or the other is better. The real answer is up there in "if it feels good and inspires you to play instead of tweak, that's the better sound for you". I can't get ANY feel out of POD Farm no matter what settings I use, sounds like a picture of a tone on top of a guitar signal while I'm playing compared to the Helix. POD Farm sounds just fine in a mix, especially with some more modern IR cab modeling applied, but to actually play through it the Helix "feels" better to me every time. 

[cruisinon2]

1 hour ago, gunpointmetal said:

TL;DR: I've done the 'verb trick in POD Farm and IMO it's no revelation, IMO. If it works better for you, that's what you should use.

 

POD Farm owner, Helix Floor/Native owner here. There's no special sauce in POD Farm, some of the sounds are good (bass especially), but nothing you can't get out of Helix. As far as a "feel" thing, there's no way anyone will ever be able to confirm or deny if one or the other is better. The real answer is up there in "if it feels good and inspires you to play instead of tweak, that's the better sound for you". I can't get ANY feel out of POD Farm no matter what settings I use, sounds like a picture of a tone on top of a guitar signal while I'm playing compared to the Helix. POD Farm sounds just fine in a mix, especially with some more modern IR cab modeling applied, but to actually play through it the Helix "feels" better to me every time. 

 

Yup, lol...

 

You can't quantify an opinion. You can't prove that opinion A is "better" than opinion B. There is no "why", or Universal Good Sound Standard against which to measure one's modeled creations. There is only what you like, and what you don't like... and if I had a thousand years and a limitless research budget, I still wouldn't be able to tell you why you hate oatmeal...;)

 

How these merry-go-round, conclusion-less conversations continue to persist is beyond me.

 

That being said, will somebody please explain my fondness for sautéed pickled goat's liver?. This is a question that needs answering, and I'm anxiously awaiting everyone's independent test results. A list of approved spices and sautéing instructions is available upon request... please don't deviate, or it will skew the results. ;)

 

[datacommando]

18 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

Now will somebody please explain my fondness for sautéed pickled goat's liver...I'm anxiously awaiting everyone's independent test results.

Only if it is a ram goat’s liver.

[lock84]

1 hour ago, gunpointmetal said:

TL;DR: I've done the 'verb trick in POD Farm and IMO it's no revelation, IMO. If it works better for you, that's what you should use.

 

POD Farm owner, Helix Floor/Native owner here. There's no special sauce in POD Farm, some of the sounds are good (bass especially), but nothing you can't get out of Helix. As far as a "feel" thing, there's no way anyone will ever be able to confirm or deny if one or the other is better. The real answer is up there in "if it feels good and inspires you to play instead of tweak, that's the better sound for you". I can't get ANY feel out of POD Farm no matter what settings I use, sounds like a picture of a tone on top of a guitar signal while I'm playing compared to the Helix. POD Farm sounds just fine in a mix, especially with some more modern IR cab modeling applied, but to actually play through it the Helix "feels" better to me every time. 

 

The problem is that my sound is not due to a normal use of Podfarm, since it only works with the Large Plate 100% mix, not 99%, only 100%, it looks like a glitch.

So I'm "stuck" with Podfarm without knowing what gives me that sound and feeling.

And I would have liked to reproduce it with a better quality material, I had already tried with the HD500 without success...

[SaschaFranck]

3 hours ago, codamedia said:

IMO - I wouldn't have any problem replicating this in the Helix....

 

I strongly doubt that - at least by using just a reverb. Which your YT vid kinda proves already.

 

Anyhow, I listened a bit closer to the files and fooled around with each Helix reverb. Not one of them adds as much stereo image as what can be heard in lock84's wet file. Really, almost a difference like night and day. And quite obviously, this is becoming super noticeable through headphones. And that's precisely why I'd take almost any bet that this can't be reproduced with just a Helix reverb.

However, what I think is happening under the hood of that PodFarm reverb is some kind of additional delay on one of the stereo sides. And I could get a whole lot closer by splitting the path, adding a 100% wet delay (no feedback, some ms of delay time) to one side, then merging the paths (A completely panned left, B right) and finally running them into the legacy Plate delay.

[SaschaFranck]

And btw, there also seems to be a certain bit of "bitey" mid coloration (a little bit of a mid boost somewhere around 1kHz or so)  coming along with the PodFarm reverb, something the Helix verbs don't exactly do.

[gunpointmetal]

1 hour ago, lock84 said:

 

The problem is that my sound is not due to a normal use of Podfarm, since it only works with the Large Plate 100% mix, not 99%, only 100%, it looks like a glitch.

So I'm "stuck" with Podfarm without knowing what gives me that sound and feeling.

And I would have liked to reproduce it with a better quality material, I had already tried with the HD500 without success...

Sounds like its exactly as you described. A sonic anomaly that is really hard to replicate. Same reason some guys have "magic" stock drive pedals. Some tolerance in production was different that gave them a sound that nobody else would even notice but gives them goosebumps. If you want to use different gear, you'll have to live with different sounds. The modeling in POD Farm is not on par with modern stuff until you pull the cabs out, and I'd venture to guess that most people, engineers included, would say the FX in Helix are quite a bit better, but that doesn't mean better FOR YOU. I've never played a real Mesa amp that I got along with, but I like how the models sounded in my HD500X, not so much in Helix. It's just one of those things. 

[SaschaFranck]

Ok, just the first few phrases cut up, tried to cut into shorter phrases for easier comparison. First phrase is the original, followed by my mockup and so on.

Note: No, this is no exact recreation, for that a short attack with just the reverb following would be needed. Or even better, a direct 1:1 comparison. Also, as these are two different guitar takes, there's differences in the phrases, in the levels and all that. But still, I think the combination of a delay and reverb would get one pretty close.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P4v9bmfm2q7zeSUI73VN1x-I5-m-1sS5/view?usp=sharing

 

Edit: Link should now work.

[codamedia]

1 hour ago, SaschaFranck said:

I strongly doubt that - at least by using just a reverb. Which your YT vid kinda proves already.

 

You quoted my comment, but are you sure you are talking to the right person? 

1. Who said I would do it with just a reverb? I never claimed I would. 
2. I never posted any YT clip.... I don't know what you are talking about? 
3. Who are you and why do you question my ability! 

[zappazapper]

Forgive my relative ignorance on the subject, but couldn't someone just make an IR of the PodFarm?

 

EDIT: I tested it myself and I can't reproduce the sound of the PodFarm Large Plate with anything on the Helix, although I didn't find it to be anything particularly special anyway.

[SaschaFranck]

33 minutes ago, zappazapper said:

Forgive my relative ignorance on the subject, but couldn't someone just make an IR of the PodFarm?

 

You could. But that reverb would exceed the maximum IR length you can use on the Helix, so you could only use it on a computer.

[zappazapper]

3 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

 

You could. But that reverb would exceed the maximum IR length you can use on the Helix, so you could only use it on a computer.

See. I told you I was ignant.

[SaschaFranck]

2 hours ago, codamedia said:

I never posted any YT clip.... I don't know what you are talking about? 

 

Oops, accidentally deleted my answer (wanted to delete one of my other posts with an invalid GDrive link) - I know that you have already seen it, but for posterity's sake, here it is again:

I mixed it up with datacommando's YT vid, my sincere apologies.

[SaschaFranck]

Fwiw, being able to load longer IRs would be a dream come true. Unfortunately, the only hardware device I know of doing so was the (now unfortunately discontinued) Epsi by Logidy.

I think it'd be about time modelers could do that - too bad, none of them could be updated with such a function as it likely requires quite a different memory architecture (5 second reverb IRs are larger than all the IRs you could cram into the Helix).

Nobody would ever complain about reverb quality anymore.

[zappazapper]

For me this kinda furthers the argument that they should expand the Legacy Effects to include other stuff than just the stompbox modellers and the M-series. PodFarm stuff comes more from the XT/X3, which has some great stuff that is no lesser in quality to the stuff already in Legacy. I mean, the OP thinks so.

[zappazapper]

2 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

Fwiw, being able to load longer IRs would be a dream come true. Unfortunately, the only hardware device I know of doing so was the (now unfortunately discontinued) Epsi by Logidy.

I think it'd be about time modelers could do that - too bad, none of them could be updated with such a function as it likely requires quite a different memory architecture (5 second reverb IRs are larger than all the IRs you could cram into the Helix).

I think they just need to cancel the polyphonic shifter project in favor of being able to use a 15 year old reverb algorithm on 100% wet.

 

*ducks*

[SaschaFranck]

1 minute ago, zappazapper said:

For me this kinda furthers the argument that they should expand the Legacy Effects to include other stuff than just the stompbox modellers and the M-series. PodFarm stuff comes more from the XT/X3, which has some great stuff that is no lesser in quality to the stuff already in Legacy.

 

Well, not sure - but the very sound example discussed in this thread would at least show that there'd be something that could be done to the FX section. Improving reverbs with some delays (called up straight inside the reverb block) would be one of these options.

[zappazapper]

I don't have time now but I think tomorrow I'm gonna try it again because just using the Legacy Plate reverb with the decay and predelay at minimum pretty much had the right length but it just didn't have the same tone. But I remember seeing a "spectral matcher" (my own description, I'm sure there's a better one) JS plugin in Reaper that could measure the spectral content of one signal and apply an EQ curve to make a second signal sound like the first. Maybe such a plugin could be used to guide me towards an appropriate EQ setting in the Helix.

[olequijote]

I've been geeking out lately on a bunch of old line 6 gear, and I, too, like the sounds I'm getting out of Pod Farm 2 better than the Helix plug-in.