spangberg Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 I'd like to use the Power amp section of my Line 6 Spider Valve I with my Helix floor. The videos I see about the 4 cable method, etc require you to plug into the FRONT of an amp. But I don't only want to use the Power amp section of my Spider Valve I with the 1/4 plugin to the POWER AMP IN on the BACK of the amp. How should by send/returns, Helix floor config look like? I'm hoping to use the amp blocks on Helix floor (and FX blocks) and just bypass the cab blocks and let the Spider Valve take care of the CAB part. Is there a vid or some screen shots to help me out? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 4cm wiring: Guitar>Helix Input>FX Loop1 Send>Spider Input>Spider FX Send>FX Loop1 Return>Helix L/Mono 1/4" Out>Spider FX Return 4cm Signal Path: Input Block (Guitar)>FX>Amp (no cab) or Preamp>FX Loop1 Block>FX>Output Block Assign a FS to BOTH the FX Loop Block AND the Amp Block. Save Preset with one ON/one OFF. This configuration allows you to use EITHER the Spider preamp OR the Helix Amp/Preamp Block. The FS toggles the configuration. You get the advantage of using 100% of your rig's capabilities. If you're like most of us, you'll find that some Helix full amps sound better with a tube power amp than the Preamp versions. If you're convinced that you'll NEVER use the Spider Preamp, then you don't need 4cm. WIRING: Guitar>Helix Input>Helix L/Mono 1/4" Out>Spider FX Return Signal Path: Input Block (Guitar)>FX>Amp (no cab) or Preamp>FX>Output Block You may find it necessary to assign the BIG KNOB to the 1/4" Out if the Master on the Spider doesn't actually control the Power Amp Output when the FX Loop is in use. My Egnater's Master does, my Engl's Master didn't. EDIT: In Global Settings>Ins/Outs, set the various Helix Ins/Outs to INST or LINE, whatever sounds best. Some amps need one or the other for quietest operation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spangberg Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 Thanks for your help! Yes, I don't want the Spider valve pre at all, so no 4CM. At first glance the second set of instructions seem too simple. Doesn't there need to be some kind of block after the AMP/PRE AMP block letting the Helix know to use the Power amp at that point in the signal chain before the time based FX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, spangberg said: Thanks for your help! Yes, I don't want the Spider valve pre at all, so no 4CM. At first glance the second set of instructions seem too simple. Doesn't there need to be some kind of block after the AMP/PRE AMP block letting the Helix know to use the Power amp at that point in the signal chain before the time based FX? Follow the signal - Input>FX>Helix Amp/Preamp>FX>Output>Spider Poweramp/cab. No extra Send/Return Blocks needed, no added latency incurred. If you want time based FX AFTER the Spider Poweramp and BEFORE the Spider cab, now you're talking adding an Attenuator, and the difference between the two FX placements is, IMO, not worth the cost and complications of the attenuator. Unless you MUST have the sound of the Spider Poweramp included for recording purposes and, really, it ain't that special that you couldn't use something like the Two Notes WOS (Poweramp sim and IRs) in the DAW with Native or any other Post FX you want. Using attenuators gets complicated fast. And expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spangberg Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 1 hour ago, rd2rk said: Follow the signal - Input>FX>Helix Amp/Preamp>FX>Output>Spider Poweramp/cab. No extra Send/Return Blocks needed, no added latency incurred. If you want time based FX AFTER the Spider Poweramp and BEFORE the Spider cab, now you're talking adding an Attenuator, and the difference between the two FX placements is, IMO, not worth the cost and complications of the attenuator. Unless you MUST have the sound of the Spider Poweramp included for recording purposes and, really, it ain't that special that you couldn't use something like the Two Notes WOS (Poweramp sim and IRs) in the DAW with Native or any other Post FX you want. Using attenuators gets complicated fast. And expensive. 1 hour ago, rd2rk said: Follow the signal - Input>FX>Helix Amp/Preamp>FX>Output>Spider Poweramp/cab. No extra Send/Return Blocks needed, no added latency incurred. If you want time based FX AFTER the Spider Poweramp and BEFORE the Spider cab, now you're talking adding an Attenuator, and the difference between the two FX placements is, IMO, not worth the cost and complications of the attenuator. Unless you MUST have the sound of the Spider Poweramp included for recording purposes and, really, it ain't that special that you couldn't use something like the Two Notes WOS (Poweramp sim and IRs) in the DAW with Native or any other Post FX you want. Using attenuators gets complicated fast. And expensive. My purpose is just to get a sound with balls live, not for recording. And my L6 L2 is not cutting it. When I A/B it with just plugging straight into my Blackstar Club 40, I miss the tube sound, so I'm hoping my quite old Spider Valve I will give by Helix floor that authentic, real TUBE tone. I had good success with the SV mkI when I was using the HD500 years ago. I'll check which sound better: amps or preamps. Thanks a ton for your time! -Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Just for giggles, take a trip over to TGP, to the Digital and Modeling Forum. Locate posts by @rubytopaz. He is a great player, and has more gear than God. He's currently using a pair of PC212+'s and a pair of L2's. He gets MONSTER sound! IIRC, he used to use a pair of Spider Valves with the L2's. That's your rig x 2! In the past I've paired my Tweaker15-112 (3-12AX7/2-6v6) combo with my HR FRFR112, and, turned up just enough (not to overpower the Tweaker) it makes the little combo sound HUGE - way too much for my apartment. You might try pairing your Spider Valve amp with the L2. Take a split at the end of your signal chain and add a 412 IR and EQ for the L2. You might be surprised at how big it sounds! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 I just had a look at the Spider manual. If it has the cab emulated line out, you might not even need the split and IR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceatl Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 I used my HD modeler with my Spider Valves for a long time....I would take the same approach with HX...Stick to the PRE model versions...and leave the cab model out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobcoss Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 I frequently use my Helix floor with my Line6 DT25(1 combo, 1 head/cab) and Peavey Classic 30. I think you will be good to use whatever Amp or Preamp model in the Helix you want. Don't have a cab or IR block active in your path. Make sure your helix 1/4 inch outputs are set to line out in global settings. Run an instrument cable to the effects return of your Spider Valve amp. I don't know if you have control of the output topologies and speaker emulations of the Spider Valve like I have with the DT25 amps, but in theory, you can get a broad range of power amp/cab sounds. I only use the Full Amp models with my Helix. I feel the helix preamp models sound thin and are a bit inconsistent in output levels for me. I am very happy at using the full amp models with my amps at loud basement levels. Hope you have success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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