Microphone cable vs instrument cable

[matsraknerud]

Hi. I’m gonna make a loom for a rig. And I wonder where I could use microphone cables (with jack plugs) and where it should be guitar cable. 
 

guitar -> helix -> fx loop send -> amp -> speaker output -> attenuator -> attenuator line out -> fx loop return -> 1/4 inch output -> power amp -> guitar cab. 
 

FX loop is set to instrument. The line out from the weber is pretty hot, so that gets attenuated -15dB on the way into the helix on a Radial sb6. 
Does the impedance change on the outputs of the helix when you change from instrument to line level on the outputs?

[datacommando]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:42 AM, matsraknerud said:

Hi. I’m gonna make a loom for a rig. And I wonder where I could use microphone cables (with jack plugs) and where it should be guitar cable. 
 

guitar -> helix -> fx loop send -> amp -> speaker output -> attenuator -> attenuator line out -> fx loop return -> 1/4 inch output -> power amp -> guitar cab. 
 

FX loop is set to instrument. The line out from the weber is pretty hot, so that gets attenuated -15dB on the way into the helix on a Radial sb6. 
Does the impedance change on the outputs of the helix when you change from instrument to line level on the outputs?

Hi,

 

FYI, there are differences between mic and guitar cables - basic info here.

 

https://neaera.com/microphone-cable-vs-instrument-cable/

 

Regarding the Helix outputs see the Helix 3.0 Owner’s Manual - page 63 - Global Settings>Ins/Outs

 

https://line6.com/data/6/0a020a3f041b611d61cac763b/application/pdf/Helix 3.0 Owner's Manual - Rev F - English .pdf 

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[PierM]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:42 AM, matsraknerud said:

guitar -> helix -> fx loop send -> amp -> speaker output -> attenuator -> attenuator line out -> fx loop return -> 1/4 inch output -> power amp -> guitar cab. 

 

Please explain why you are doing such a crazy routing. I really can't get the point, apart the fact it looks like a perfect recipe for a noise/hum fest...

[theElevators]

Also why use a Helix at all…  Helix has IRs etc. The whole point of using a processor IMO is to not lug all the heavy stuff around, not to Uber complicate the setup. 
 

I highly recommend using what’s in the Helix instead, I guarantee it’s great. 

[matsraknerud]

The reason for the crazy routing is because I perfer my old tube amp. But in most settings thats way too loud. And I love using the helix for effects and cab sim. And I’m now able to get both the sound of a cranked super reverb and stereo effects. AND I’m able to dial in the perfect volume on stage without changing the tone going to FOH. 

I also do gigs without any sound on stage. Just the amp going to the attenuator and into the helix. 

 

And on a lot of gigs I use just the helix. 
 

I love my rig and the ability to change it up to suit the gig. 
The reason i asked about the cables was just because I have a lot of left over mic cable multicores. And the loom would be slimmer with mic cables. I’m guessing the signal from the helix to the power amp could be mic cables. The signal from the guitar will of course need to be a guitar cable. 
 

No hum btw. The sb6 does the trick. :)

[PierM]

Mic cable isn't a mic cable as soon as you ignore the second signal wire. It's balanced vs unbalanced. As soon as you place a mono/TS jack on both ends of that "mic" cable, that's just another (BAD) unbalanced cable, with a useless third wire (which won't help with EMIs). You typically want a balanced cable for very low level signals at low impedance, as MICs, because they will be much more sensible to EMIs and they needs that third cable for hum cancellation, and also they won't suffer long wires, so wire capacitance isn't an issue. As soon as your path is at instrument level (and high impedance), you don't need a mic cable and you should not use it. A mic cable (especially if it's a long cable) could alter the parallel wire capacitance, usually cutting on the highs - and also, as said before, acting as a EMI catcher.

 

Said that, if you are happy with the sounds of it, go ahead... ;)

[matsraknerud]

Thanks. Guitar cable all the way then! :)

[PaulTBaker]

Have you tried the 4 cable method?  I don't use that, but from my understanding, the whole point of that is to keep your amps sound.  That may help.

[matsraknerud]

On 12/20/2022 at 3:37 PM, PaulTBaker said:

Have you tried the 4 cable method?  I don't use that, but from my understanding, the whole point of that is to keep your amps sound.  That may help.

This is kind of like the 4 cable method. But my amp doesen’t have a fx loop. So the only way of getting the sound of the whole amp is to get the speaker output and attenuating it down to line level. Works great. I have rewired the speakers in the amp, so I can run it stand alone like before in mono, or plugging my power amp into the speakers in stereo. Did this with the type of jack sockets where the signal runs through the terminals if nothing is plugged in. 2ohm mono and 4ohm stereo. 
probably freaks out some guitar nerds with an old fender amp with stereo delays. Haha. :)