Global EQ when running into an amp

[loydall]

Hi - back in the Helix game after a few years out. Couldn't resits the Stomp XL. At the moment I'm using the stomp into my Vox AC30 so not using the amps/cabs. Previously when I was using going straight to frfr/PA I would set the global EQ to cut a little high end off to remove any harshness but I haven't done that going into my amp as it seems to me any overdrive pedal block I use in the stomp should have a "normal" overdrive output and, because I'm going into a real, physical amp and cab, I shouldn't need to touch the global EQ. But - it seems the the stomp still adds more high end than is in the original signal (analog through VS digital through with no blocks) so I still need to add a little high cut on the global EQ to get the output similar to real overdrives or just with the stomp bypassed in analog through.

 

It's not really an issue as once I take a bit of high end off on global EQ I'm pretty much where I started but it seems the stomp does add something else. I have played around with impedance as well by the way, I know it can be set auto to the first (active) block but if I'm looking for accurate sound through the stomp with less impact on the original sound I find lowering the impedance a touch and also rolling off some high end on the global eq gets me there.

 

Anyone else have experience with this? 

 

Cheers.

[theElevators]

I seriously doubt that a Helix/Stomp adds coloring to the signal if you have no blocks.... have you checked the output level?  Set the level to "line" and disable the volume knob.  (some will say leave the volume on max, but for the sake of this experiment, let's disable it to be sure we are actually getting line level)

 

The experiment:

1. take an amp and play with just a 1/4" cable and no pedals

2. now add your Stomp and play the same. 

 

Are you saying that now you get more low end that you didn't have before? 

 

But yeah... Global EQ is meant to make adjustments to the sound you are happy with.  Do not build your sound with the help of Global EQ.  GE is only if you get on stage and your cabinet is too boomy or the sound guy is complaining.  Every venue, cab, stage construction will change your sound... ...Or some weird frequency it there that is undesirable.... (that's what my sound guy always asks me to do, EQ one pesky frequency that does not even bother me on stage)

 

 

[PierM]

Everything you describe sounds normal and expected.

Active devices, with an impedance load and a buffered circuit. Impossible to have them acting just like a cable when passing through them.

[Schmalle]

I suggest A/B'ing an empty preset with the Stomp's Global Analog Bypass (true bypass). Press the Upper Knob and Lower Knob to access it - make sure it shows "Analog Bypass" otherwise set it up in the Global Settings. You can also switch it via footswitch - see Global Settings -> Footswitches.

[z3albw1rr]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, loydall said:

 it seems to me any overdrive pedal block I use in the stomp should have a "normal" overdrive output and, because I'm going into a real, physical amp and cab, I shouldn't need to touch the global EQ.

 

Yeah, you'd think right? But you'd be wrong ;-)

 

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, loydall said:

 

But - it seems the the stomp still adds more high end than is in the original signal (analog through VS digital through with no blocks)

 

So what's most likely happening is this:

 

Analog through is using the cable length from your guitar to HX, AND the length from HX to your amp.

 

Digital through (or just not bypassed even with no blocks, or all blocks bypassed) is "negating" the cable length from the HX to your amp.

 

So the capacitance is HALF what it is in analog bypass (assuming you're using say, 2 20' cables for example).

 

This is because it is a buffer when not analog bypassed.

 

Now what this means for you is, it sounds brighter than when analog bypassed.

 

Most people will tell you though it's not brighter, it's that in analog bypass it's duller!

 

It's merely "replacing the highs you're losing by using a longer cable run".

That's what they'll tell you. It's true - 40' of cable has more capacitance, and thus more high-end loss than 20' of cable.

 

So if you plug your guitar straight into your amp with 20' of cable, you should get the same sound from a 20' cable into HX, and then whatever after the HX, since the buffer essentially "negates" anything after it. They should both have the same amount of high end (or so they'll tell you) and when you compare it to the analog bypass, it's not a "fair" comparison because you're comparing 20' of cable to 40' of cable. The HX makes it sound like 20' - which is what you want, right - well, not always.

 

 

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, loydall said:

so I still need to add a little high cut on the global EQ to get the output similar to real overdrives or just with the stomp bypassed in analog through.

 

I have this same problem. What I hear out of my HX Effects is NOT "regained highs" but "a messed up frequency mess".

 

There's a pretty significant increase in both high and low mids in addition to the highs that robs the character of my guitar's pickups. Now the HX Effects only has a fixed input impedance (brilliant - the one device that SHOULD have variable impedance doesn't...) but since you're having this same issue, it's probably more than that.

 

But like another poster said, you really shouldn't use the global EQ for that. I get why you might want to - it's easy to "fix the tonal mess of the unit", but it's really more designed for when you get to a gig and because you set up your sounds at home, they all have too much bass or something, so the idea is that you could quickly dial it out with the global EQ. That said, if all you're doing is dialling out some high end, that's easy enough to change if you get somewhere and find you need more or less anyway.

 

Instead, it might be better to just put an EQ in the Preset, and then save it as a Favorite, and then copy it into other presets.

 

It does kind of suck because if you end up changing it, you'll have to go back and do all of them - which could be a nightmare if you have tons of presets.

 

But personally I've found that I need more than what the global EQ does.

 

There needs to be some high cut, there needs to be some cut around 2200, and some around 250 - to start. At least that's what I'm finding I have to do to get it to sound like my bypassed tone.

 

I don't mind it a little brighter, but my god, it changes my tone pretty drastically in an harsh, and unpleasant way.

 

 

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, loydall said:

 

It's not really an issue as once I take a bit of high end off on global EQ I'm pretty much where I started but it seems the stomp does add something else.

 

Yep.

 

Definite coloration.

 

Really, all the drives have this harsh mid-range honk that my real drives don't have - even when going through the unit and thus the unit's buffer (since drive pedals when on are buffered signals themselves).

 

I've got my real drives in a loop right now comparing them to the onboard drives and have been fighting to get them to sound "as good". I know they aren't going to be identical (I only have clones, not any exact models in the HX) but the "honky" character of all the drives and even the bypassed tone is annoying. Just cutting the highs is not enough to help me.

 

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, loydall said: