MayPRS Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Past weekend (Friday/Saturday) had my first two gigs using the Helix LT (Friday with Pink Floyd tribute, Saturday with Queen tribute). Thoughts: Sounded great! Much better than I ever could with the HX Effects. Finally got the dynamics, tone and overall "pro" sound I'm used to; Much better to see things, control, do some adjustments on the fly - felt more "secure" with the LT throughout the gigs overall. The Wah! Oh my god - I never had a wah that sounded like this - maybe sheer luck, I don't know, but the "Weeper" sounded amazing. Before I tried Dunlop Cry Baby (always harsh/trebly) but the Weeper sounded amazing! Very warm, it added the "wha" effect without messing the tone. Very happy. Now, some things I noticed on Saturday (at gig levels) that I didn't at home (much lower volume): If I have a Chorus block (I use the '70 Chorus model) anywhere in the path the overall volume just drops a bit. I don't notice that on Delays (unless I set the Delays at 100% mix) - even If I have a snapshot increasing the volume in +3db, I don't notice that the volume goes up - this happens only on the presets with this kind of modulation blocks. The "Pitch" blocks sounded great at home, but at gig volumes the "pitch effect" almost disappeared - I hear the "pitch" bit pretty much on the background. I usually have the Pitch blocks on Path 1B with 50% mix. I'm using 4 CM with a physical amp - could it be that I'm using the "stereo" versions of the blocks instead of the "mono" versions? Is there any best practice for keeping the same volume on modulations (that's the type of blocks I noticed this the most!)? I don't use amp+cab block in this project, only the effects. Many thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymda Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 3/27/2023 at 7:28 PM, MayPRS said: I'm using 4 CM with a physical amp - could it be that I'm using the "stereo" versions of the blocks instead of the "mono" versions? Yes, highly likely. Collapsing the stereo modulation to mono is likely to cause some amount of phase cancellation. As I read through your post that was was the first question I was going to ask. Also with using mono versions, you could consider a parellel path with the modulation effects and mixing them back in later. They will also affect volume differently depending on where they tap the signal in the 4CM arrangement. Conventional wisdom is mod effects in the loop, post amp pre-amp, however many a mod effect works very well pre-preamp and in mono - think the boss chorus pedals designed for guitar and before rack effect goodness allowed use post pre-amp (if not amp and cab in the studio). Assuming youre using the pitch blocks as adding an additional not (rather than detune) then yes they are higly sensitive to overall output volume and need balancing in the mix. My experience has been that as the volume increase I need to add more pitch effect for it to sit where I want it. Sorry I can't provide definative answers, but your end-to-end setup signifcantly impact how it all works for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaschaFranck Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 3/27/2023 at 10:28 AM, MayPRS said: I'm using 4 CM with a physical amp - could it be that I'm using the "stereo" versions of the blocks instead of the "mono" versions? How did you create your patches at home? Listening to them in stereo? Otherwise, in case you're using the left/mono out with your amp, use whatever you feel like. I sometimes use stereo FX in my mono live setup because they're not available in mono (such as the ping pong delay, which defenitely makes sense in mono, too, once you use the offset parameter, which I do). On the left/mono out the L and R sides will be mixed to mono. Only problem would be in case you listened to them in stereo while creating them. Back in my HX/Floor days I always inserted a mono EQ block at the end of the chain because of that (which then serves the same purpose as the L/mono out, namely mixing things down to mono). On 3/27/2023 at 10:28 AM, MayPRS said: Is there any best practice for keeping the same volume on modulations (that's the type of blocks I noticed this the most!)? Well, they all have a level control, which isn't related to the FX level but the overall output of the block. So just use that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayPRS Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Many thanks for all the input. A question: even though I put the delays on Path 1B and just merge the signal before the output - if I put the mix to 100% it loses volume? On my head (from using the G-System in the past), if I have the delay in parallel with 100% mix, it maintained the signal volume and just add the wet delay to the mix without losing volume. What I'm doing wrong and what's the best pratice for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 On 3/31/2023 at 10:18 AM, MayPRS said: What I'm doing wrong and what's the best pratice for this? Hi, When using parallel paths, as you are, there is a 3db drop in volume, even though some folk actually perceived this as a jump in volume. See the final reply from @njglover from way back in 2016. https://line6.com/support/topic/22227-parallel-path-volume-increase/ More comments about this here: It’s to do with the way the Mix block is scaled - see reply from @phil_m in this link. Hope this helps/makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayPRS Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 On 3/31/2023 at 11:11 AM, datacommando said: Hi, When using parallel paths, as you are, there is a 3db drop in volume, even though some folk actually perceived this as a jump in volume. See the final reply from @njglover from way back in 2016. https://line6.com/support/topic/22227-parallel-path-volume-increase/ More comments about this here: It’s to do with the way the Mix block is scaled - see reply from @phil_m in this link. Hope this helps/makes sense. Oh yes!!! Amazing help - so I just need to increase the block level by + 3db? Meaning I can put the Lvl on the block itself (delay, chorus, pitch) at +3 db? Is this a "clean" boost, meaning it increases the overall volume or just gives me "more" delay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 On 3/31/2023 at 11:28 AM, MayPRS said: Oh yes!!! Amazing help - so I just need to increase the block level by + 3db? Meaning I can put the Lvl on the block itself (delay, chorus, pitch) at +3 db? Is this a "clean" boost, meaning it increases the overall volume or just gives me "more" delay? Hi, I generally don't have to meddle around with parallel paths to the extent that some users do, but I seem to recall that this level drop had been commented on previously and that is when I first heard of 3db as the amount required to balance the paths. Don't ask - I can't remember where this mysterious 3db was mentioned first. (I'm very old). Anyhow, I have just discovered something with the Merge Mixer on my Helix. I loaded a new blank preset and added a Grey Flanger and Simple Delay block and split the path by dragging down the delay to create Path 1B with the usual Y split in front of the flanger and a merge mix node behind. On checking the default setting on the mixer all the settings were zeroed out - A Level 0db, A Pan Centre, B Level 0db, B Pan Centre, B Polarity Normal, Level 0db. Usually when you modify any of the parameters within a block and want to return them back to their default readings, you simply tap the relevant encoder knob below whichever one you want to reset, and it's done. Now here's where it get strange, because when the Mix settings are all at zero, if you touch the encoder for Level (knob 6) it immediately switches to read +3.db and no amount of tapping will get it to return to 0db. You can manually rotate from the max +12db right down to -60db to achieve whatever setting you like, BUT if you tap the encoder it always set the level as +3db. I think this may be a glitch because splitting path 1 to A & B is where the 3db signal drop occurs across both A & B and the Mix +3db is there to remove the bump, but the default loads as 0db. Not quite sure if this is a bug? As for your question, it's one of those try it and see what works for you situations, a bit like "gain staging". I had a quick look in the updated Big Book of Helix Tips and Tricks and haven't spotted any clues yet. I need to do some more digging. L8Rz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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