Exp2 Causes Volume Change But Not Assigned???!!

[philmandoo]

Hi - I gig with a Helix LT and use exp2 to control the mix of delay on my patches. It's been working great but I have just noticed that when pushing forward on the pedal the volume is dropping. This is the same on every patch - I have check to see if I have accidentally assigned something to the pedal that shouldn't be there but I can't see anything. I even tried using a blank patch and the volume still changes when I move the pedal even though the patch is empty!

I'm lost for ideas, can anyone help?

Thanks

Phil

[codamedia]

How much of a volume drop is there.... is it measurable (using a meter) or perceived? 

 

FWIW, I use EXP 2 in a similar manner. As you add delay mix the guitar sounds "pushed back" for lack of a better term which can be perceived as quieter - but it isn't. That fact that you have this happen on a blank patch is where I am more concerned - providing it's a measurable drop in volume.

 

When in doubt... Save a complete backup in HX Edit, do a Factory Reset on the device, then run a full restore. That can solve many strange problems. 

[brue58ski]

I am not familiar with the LT. I would check your Global settings to see if there is a setting in there for that. Does the input have a volume pedal at the beginning automaticallly? Try this, when you have a blank patch, go to the input and output level pages and watch to see if any values change as you move the pedal.The only other thing would be to back it up and then do a factory reset. Hope this helps.

[theElevators]

Can you connect your Helix to the computer, run HX Edit, and take a screenshot what you have in the BYPASS/CONTROLLER ASSIGN section?  If you have a New Preset, there should not be anything there. 

 

What you are describing is that you have some kind of a block (volume pedal) that is getting bypassed/un-bypassed when you use the toe switch.  

 

Try another blank preset, for example from USER 5 folder.

 

 

 

[philmandoo]

On 12/12/2023 at 12:14 PM, codamedia said:

How much of a volume drop is there.... is it measurable (using a meter) or perceived? 

 

Yes, it's a lot, definitely not imagining it and happens with a any patch, even empty ones.

 

 

[philmandoo]

On 12/12/2023 at 1:50 PM, theElevators said:

Can you connect your Helix to the computer, run HX Edit, and take a screenshot what you have in the BYPASS/CONTROLLER ASSIGN section?  If you have a New Preset, there should not be anything there. 

 

What you are describing is that you have some kind of a block (volume pedal) that is getting bypassed/un-bypassed when you use the toe switch.  

 

Here are a couple of screen shots - first is an empty patch, second one of my regular gig sounds. Nothing appears in the first one, you can see the delay in the second. ones. It is a big change in volume.

 

 

 

 

[philmandoo]

Update.......so I did a factory reset and restore. Even worse now, exp2 volume all over the place. If I unplug the expression pedal then it's back to normal and can control the delay mix but toe tapping exp1 to adjust exp2.

So is my expression pedal the issue? The fact the pedal changes the parameters correctly makes me think it's not the pedal itself??

[philmandoo]

Update 2! Remembered I had a spare expression pedal - fitted it, exact same behaviour. The weird thing is I can reverse the polarity of the pedal and it acts accordingly with the delay mix but it still does the volume fade out when I push the pedal up. I would say volume drop is now about 80%!!!

When I unplug the expression pedal volume is back to normal. Weird!!

I have a gig on Friday so will set up a button to toggle between two levels of delay so I can leave the expression pedal unplugged but I'm pretty worried to be honest :(

[brue58ski]

I'm sorry. It sounds like it's an external pedal. Yes it could be the pedal. What kind of pedal is it?

[philmandoo]

On 12/12/2023 at 3:09 PM, brue58ski said:

I'm sorry. It sounds like it's an external pedal. Yes it could be the pedal. What kind of pedal is it?

I have a Line 6 expression pedal and a M-Audio one. Both show the same behaviour.

[theElevators]

Can you try a factory reset, but don't restore from your backup.  And try the same experiment with a blank preset?  Press the pedal in, and see if there is any volume drop, etc? 

 

Maybe this is some kind of a weird bug with HX Edit that is messing up the presets (not the first time).  There have been multiple bugs in the past where when you restore presets, they affect unrelated presets.  So let's try to rule out that first, by resetting the Helix to the factory settings, with all the factory presets. 

[philmandoo]

On 12/12/2023 at 4:01 PM, theElevators said:

Can you try a factory reset, but don't restore.  And try the same experiment with a blank preset?  Maybe this is some kind of a weird bug with HX Edit that is messing up the presets (not the first time). 

Just tried that - exp2 works like a volume pedal even on a blank preset. I put in a volume block and it automatically assigned exp2 to it. When I deleted the block it still operated as if it were still assigned.

I've tried different expression pedals and leads, it still works the same.

[theElevators]

That's bizarre!!  I can confirm that I do not have this ghost volume pedal syndrome.  Just to confirm again.  You start rocking the pedal and the volume fades in/out...

 

If you don't want to accidentally switch your pedal between EXP 1/2, then you can just plug in a short patch cable to the external pedal, and plug it into an unused jack, such as your Send 1 or Send 2.  This way your expression pedal will always be on EXP 1, the switch won't work.

 

So you can do that until you figure out what the heck is going on. 

[philmandoo]

On 12/12/2023 at 4:29 PM, theElevators said:

That's bizarre!!  I can confirm that I do not have this ghost volume pedal syndrome.  Just to confirm again.  You start rocking the pedal and the volume fades in/out...

 

Yup, bizarre indeed!!! Volume fades in and out as if set up for a volume pedal. I notice a little crackling random noise to it too - once I unplug it everything is normal. Might get some socket cleaner in the there to see if it has any effect.

 

[codamedia]

On 12/12/2023 at 11:42 AM, philmandoo said:

Volume fades in and out as if set up for a volume pedal. I notice a little crackling random noise to it too - once I unplug it everything is normal.

 

I'm at a loss... it's as if your EXP 2 input is acting as a loop rather than a controller.

 

Is this only with an external EXP 2 connected? For troubleshooting, what happens if you don't use an external EXP and toe switch the internal pedal to EXP2? Does it still inherit this behavior? 

• If the problem goes away then that would point to a hardware issue at the EXP2 jack
• If the program continues, then it's likely software related

[philmandoo]

On 12/13/2023 at 12:07 AM, codamedia said:

 

I'm at a loss... it's as if your EXP 2 input is acting as a loop rather than a controller.

 

Is this only with an external EXP 2 connected? For troubleshooting, what happens if you don't use an external EXP and toe switch the internal pedal to EXP2? Does it still inherit this behavior? 

• If the problem goes away then that would point to a hardware issue at the EXP2 jack
• If the program continues, then it's likely software related

It only happens with an external pedal attached. If I remove it and use the internal pedal toe clicked to Exp2 it works as it should. I'm going to get the screwdrivers out and have a look at the socket.

[philmandoo]

Sorted!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stripped the unit down and tested the socket, seemed fine. Gave it a clean with contact cleaning and put it back together again. It now works as normal!!

Flipping weird, guess there was something in the socket causing the weird behaviour. But so glad to have it working again, had a bad  nights sleep worrying about it.

 

Cheers for everyone's input, 

Phil

[brue58ski]

That was weird. Never heard of it before. Good to know a spritz of contact cleaner may fix it.

[philmandoo]

On 12/13/2023 at 2:20 PM, brue58ski said:

That was weird. Never heard of it before. Good to know a spritz of contact cleaner may fix it.

Weird indeed!! Hope it never happens again :)

[bobruz]

Just to add to weird Exp. pedal behavior. 
I have an EV-5 exp. pedal that I use for synth volume from Helix using MIDI.

Occasionally, when plugged in.  The pedal will only go down to 2-3% when heel is down.  Goes up to 100% normally.

But will not go to 0, leaving a bit if synth still audible.

Pull exp. plug out of Helix and re-insert it once or twice.  Problem gone magically.

Seems contact resistance is a factor in some cases.

bobruz

[codamedia]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:27 AM, bobruz said:

Just to add to weird Exp. pedal behavior. 
I have an EV-5 exp. pedal that I use for synth volume from Helix using MIDI.

Occasionally, when plugged in.  The pedal will only go down to 2-3% when heel is down.  Goes up to 100% normally.

But will not go to 0, leaving a bit if synth still audible.

Pull exp. plug out of Helix and re-insert it once or twice.  Problem gone magically.

Seems contact resistance is a factor in some cases.

bobruz

 

I have a couple of EV-5's... 

1. EXP's self calibrate on start up. I always place the exp in toe down before I start the machine. Once it loads, I do a full sweep of the EXP (heel down, toe down) so it recognized the full range. Since I started doing this, I never have a problem. 
2. I have two EV-5's myself... and the problem can also lay within the pedal. I've had to take the back off and manually adjust the pot to so heel down always landed on 0 and toe down always landed at 100. Be careful of the "min" control on the sides of those exp's... they will also cause grief.