Why are banks split up into A, B, C, D?

[trhx]

Are the preset banks divided up based only on the footswitch layout, or is there some other reason for the A, B, C, D organization?

[silverhead]

I think you’ve got the cart before the horse. It all boils down to computers and binary structures; powers of 2. The first step was a hardware design decision: how much memory space to allocate for preset storage on the device? For the full Helix devices it was decided that 1,024 (2 to the 10th power) presets would be stored. From there the presets were conceptually organized into 8 setlists of 128 presets; an arbitrary organization for human convenience. Then the presets were conceptually organized into 32 banks of 4, again for human convenience. Note that all the numbers are powers of 2; that’s driven by the nature of computer hardware.
 

The final step was to decide on a convenient and affordable number of hardware footswitches to address and recall individual banks and presets. It was decided to use 2 configurable footswitches  (Up/Down) for selecting banks, presets, and snapshots and 2 rows of 4 footswitches that could be configured for selecting individual presets and/or snapshots within a preset. Finally an arbitrary choice of A through D was made to label the 4 presets in a bank. So the A through D footswitch labels were derived from the preset structure and computer memory rather than the reverse.

[trhx]

I appreciate the response, but I'll have to take that with a grain of salt unless that's what someone at Line 6 said. The dev team seems to have really taken usability into account, and hex and binary structures probably don't mean much to the average guitar player. I think it's more likely that the footswitch layout was determined by overall product size in the design, and that the preset banks were divided up from there.

 

But I did ask and you did provide a theory (or maybe info provided by Line 6), so I appreciate that.

[rd2rk]

@silverheadis probably right, but there's another reason.

 

How do you eat an elephant?

One bite at a time.

Why?

It won't fit in a blender.

 

If you COULD fit an elephant in a blender, the average guitarist would be confused by the switch layout. ;-)

 

[silverhead]

On 6/29/2025 at 12:10 PM, trhx said:

… I think it's more likely that the footswitch layout was determined by overall product size in the design, and that the preset banks were divided up from there.

….

You’re right - this is my analysis rather than coming from Line 6. And you’re right that overall product size and physical design landed on 4 preset footswitches. But other options would be 8 or 16, not 5 or 7 or any other non-power-of-2. I still maintain that it was done within the overall hardware design context of a binary computer.

 

Similarly, there’s a good reason midi is limited to 128 program numbers and is power-of-2  in its CCs and numeric value ranges. If ever expanded I expect the program number range will jump to 256 or 512 in its upper limit. It won’t somehow land on some random number like 331, or 759. And the implementation would likely introduce a higher level organizational concept and terminology such as Setlist.
 

In fact, midi is used for setlist, bank, preset, and snapshot selection in Helix. This wouldn’t be practical if Helix used any other preset architecture. The existence of 4 footswitches is a result, not a driver, of its preset architecture.

 

Just for fun, try to imagine a setlist/bank/preset/snapshot arrangement that works as well with 5 or 7 footswitches and is also efficient in terms of computer hardware and memory addressability. Please describe machine and preset  architecture and structure for me and evaluate their relative simplicities. In particular, please describe how midi selection would work.

[theElevators]

Because historically that's how presets were organized on older Line 6 models.  You would be able to choose 4 presets on the bottom row "A, B C D", and on top you would be able to select which effects to turn on/off.  Before snapshots, before command center. 

 

[datacommando]

On 6/29/2025 at 3:01 PM, trhx said:

Are the preset banks divided up based only on the footswitch layout, or is there some other reason for the A, B, C, D organization?

Simple answer - Logic! 
 

Helix products are essentially computers, therefore they use computer “logic” to work. The alpha numeric interface is the easiest way for you, and this rather specialised computer to communicate, without going mad.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[trhx]

On 6/29/2025 at 1:53 PM, silverhead said:

You’re right - this is my analysis rather than coming from Line 6. And you’re right that overall product size and physical design landed on 4 preset footswitches. But other options would be 8 or 16, not 5 or 7 or any other non-power-of-2. I still maintain that it was done within the overall hardware design context of a binary computer.

...

Just for fun, try to imagine a setlist/bank/preset/snapshot arrangement that works as well with 5 or 7 footswitches and is also efficient in terms of computer hardware and memory addressability. Please describe machine and preset  architecture and structure for me and evaluate their relative simplicities. In particular, please describe how midi selection would work.

My Alesis drum kit, Songbook Pro on my iPad, my other guitar player's Kemper Profiler and my keyboardist's Roland keyboard all use midi. None of them use a binary base for their organization. The drum kit can store 70 kits, and other e-drum models have all sorts of different numbers of stored presets. The Profiler stores 625 rigs. SBP doesn't list a song limit, so I suspect that's a single storage size limit rather than a set number of songs. The Roland Keyboard organization appears to be random.

 

Binary and hex are typically used for under the hood parts of a computer, not user interface. Again, I don't know what the Helix Developers had in mind, so it's a toss up. 

 

ETA: The HX Stomp uses midi. It has 42 banks with A, B, C presets for 3 foot switches. I'm gonna go out on a limb and conclude once and for all that the footswitch number determined the bank organization.

Edited June 30 by trhx
Added info

[trhx]

On 6/29/2025 at 2:44 PM, datacommando said:

Simple answer - Logic! 
 

Helix products are essentially computers, therefore they use computer “logic” to work. The alpha numeric interface is the easiest way for you, and this rather specialised computer to communicate, without going mad.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

Computer logic makes the computer work behind the scenes. Usability is how customers interact with the computer. You can find plenty of computer products that don't have user interfaces based on binary or hex.

 

The HX Stomp banks are organized around 3 foot switches, so I think it's safe to say the Helix bank organization is also based on the foot switch layout rather than computer coding.

[rd2rk]

I spent another minute thinking about this after posting my elephant comment.

Another minute of my life I'll never get back.

[datacommando]

On 6/30/2025 at 5:13 PM, trhx said:

Computer logic makes the computer work behind the scenes. Usability is how customers interact with the computer. You can find plenty of computer products that don't have user interfaces based on binary or hex.

 

The HX Stomp banks are organized around 3 foot switches, so I think it's safe to say the Helix bank organization is also based on the foot switch layout rather than computer coding.

Fine, but now you have had several different opinions as to why the foot switches and preset banks, are referenced as A, B, C, and D. None of which you seem find to be a reasonable explanation.
 

I guess, any, or all of them could be equally valid, except now you introduce the fact that the HX Stomp is restricted (probably, purely the overall size of the device) to storing 42 banks of 3 (ABC) presets, totalling 126 presets overall.

 

Could you please explain, what exactly your point is, because it seems to me that it is of very little importance when it comes to getting a good guitar tone out of the box. Other than you, does anyone actually actually care what the reason was for choosing a rather common alpha numeric system for organising presets. There are better ways to spend your time.

 

Ye gods - I despair!

[trhx]

On 6/30/2025 at 12:50 PM, datacommando said:

Fine, but now you have had several different opinions as to why the foot switches and preset banks, are referenced as A, B, C, and D. None of which you seem find to be a reasonable explanation.
 

I guess, any, or all of them could be equally valid, except now you introduce the fact that the HX Stomp is restricted (probably, purely the overall size of the device) to storing 42 banks of 3 (ABC) presets, totalling 126 presets overall.

 

Could you please explain, what exactly your point is, because it seems to me that it is of very little importance when it comes to getting a good guitar tone out of the box. Other than you, does anyone actually actually care what the reason was for choosing a rather common alpha numeric system for organising presets. There are better ways to spend your time.

 

Ye gods - I despair!

I didn't come here to tie people up in knots or bait anyone. You're correct that my question is pretty insignificant and created a longer thread than I would have expected, but I'll engage as long as anyone else does.

 

After I posted the original question, I thought about it some more and came up with my own theory, which I put in my second comment. The back and forth prompted me to look at other devices to see which theory might make the most sense, so the HX Stomp and other devices were examples that support my theory.

 

I don't stop thinking about my own question after I post. If I wind up coming up with my own answer, I figure I might as well share. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate the time people take to respond. I've gotten answers to other questions here that I never would have figured out on my own.

 

Thanks to all for the discussion.

[trhx]

On 6/29/2025 at 2:40 PM, theElevators said:

Because historically that's how presets were organized on older Line 6 models.  You would be able to choose 4 presets on the bottom row "A, B C D", and on top you would be able to select which effects to turn on/off.  Before snapshots, before command center. 

 

Ah, that makes perfect sense. Thanks.

[trhx]

On 6/30/2025 at 12:40 PM, rd2rk said:

I spent another minute thinking about this after posting my elephant comment.

Another minute of my life I'll never get back.

Ya gets on the internet, ya takes yur chances.

[rd2rk]

On 6/30/2025 at 2:36 PM, trhx said:

Ya gets on the internet, ya takes yur chances.

 

Yes, I'm sure we've all lost a lot of minutes out here in the wilds of the interwebs...