Tone building / Stereo trick help needed

[utubebenscott]

I'm really struggling to create some tones/patches that i'm happy with. Just wondering does anyone have any go-to settings or tricks they use when creating a patch? Any patch links appreciated.

 

Would also love to know the stereo trick that Glenn Delaune uses on his videos?

 

Thanks

[duncann]

I think the stereo trick you mention is putting a delay in one of the paths and setting the delay to min (20ms) and mix 100%. Make sure the pan controls are 100% left and 100% right. If you don't want to use that method, another would be using a stereo or ping-pong after the mixer. For the stereo delay, set the left time to 20ms and the right to something slightly more (21ms ~ 40ms), left and right feedback to zero, and mix to 100%. For the ping-pong, set time to 20ms, feedback to zero, mix to 100%, and twiddle with the offset and spread controls. Neither of those two methods require the pan controls to be at 100%. Another method would be the pitch glide in one of the paths with pitch set to 0.1 and mix 100% and pan controls 100% left and right. This also gives a nice chorusing effect.

 

As far as getting a good tone, just experiment. There are many ways to do things and there is no right or wrong way. One thing I've noticed on higher gain tones, if there is too much distortion or compression before an amp, it tends to drown out the dynamics and feel of the amp.

[joel_brown]

I use the 20ms Glenn Delaune trick and duncann explained it exactly how Glenn does it.  I also add a stereo delay at the end of the chain with Left side at 290ms and right side at 300ms.  Steve Vai uses a Stereo chorus that feeds stereo delays and he puts a much large difference in the stereo delays.

 

The Glenn Delaune trick is the one I prefer, even for live use.  Anything more that 20ms seems to just muddy up the mix.  You may get away with 25ms.

[utubebenscott]

Got it! thanks

[NucleusX]

This is something I've always wanted to cover myself in great detail.

I've been studying Ola Englund's video's on youtube, because I'm a

fan of the brutal metal tone that the Engl amps produce. Example: (0:55)

When he uses the real hardware when recording, he will pan his guitar tracks at the DAW

to get a stereo field of his Engl, which seems to be way more of a detailed tone than mono.

I realize there's 2 recorded tracks, giving that stereo doubling effect in the final product, but

what I can't seem to get a definitive answer on is, can this be achieved with the POD HD on

its own, in real-time without a DAW ? I assume dual-tone (2 x Engl Fireball) is required with a

certain panning at the mixer in the POD HD, and maybe something else I'm missing in the chain ?

Or, is this "Glenn Delaune trick" the only real way of going about getting a stereo field ?

I would've started a new thread on this, but I think this question suitably fits the OP's query.

[joel_brown]

The Glenn Delaune trick is the only way I know of to get close to this and I've been trying for a few years now.  I use it for live performance and it makes a big difference.  It's not as good as two recorded tracks, but it's the next best thing.

[brue58ski]

One thing you may try is putting a chorus on the delayed signals path (after the delay) and adjust the mix on the chorus.

[joel_brown]

That helps with the stereo effect but for high gain metal it didn't sound right.  Also there is a detune in the PODHD which can give a stereo effect.  The effect is similar to Chorus.

[NucleusX]

I've tried the stereo chorus trick and it sounds great in a low gain scenario (Vai, Vah Halen or Wylde), but

as joel mentioned, its not the go for "high gain" metal. Guess I'll just keep working on the delay trick.

I was really hoping to fully achieve this in the live hardware sense, without double/quad tracking.

[radatats]

That helps with the stereo effect but for high gain metal it didn't sound right.  Also there is a detune in the PODHD which can give a stereo effect.  The effect is similar to Chorus.

 

Which one is the detune?

[NucleusX]

I don't think the POD HD has a dedicated "Detuner", but it can be closely replicated

by the Pitch Glide effect with certain parameters set, aswell as maybe a chorus.

Luckily, I have both the detuner and doubler FX available in other units I use.

 

Time to experiment !

 

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=790034

[duncann]

See post #2 for the detune/chorus using the pitch glide.

[NucleusX]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the extra input.

[joel_brown]

Using HDEdit:

 

Under Mod you have the Freq Shifter.  Attach it to the left output of an amp then double click in the Freq parameter and manually type in 1.  If you try and use the mouse to move the knobs it will move the frequencies 10hz at a time.  You have to manually type them in.

[radatats]

Using HDEdit:

 

Under Mod you have the Freq Shifter.  Attach it to the left output of an amp then double click in the Freq parameter and manually type in 1.  If you try and use the mouse to move the knobs it will move the frequencies 10hz at a time.  You have to manually type them in.

 

cool! thanks...

[duncann]

Interesting effect, the frequency shifter. It's a similar effect Joe Satriani uses in Ghosts; he said he uses a series of ring modulators.

 

It seems there are quite a few effects that can be used in one path to get a wide stereo field. Some better than others. A lot of the modulation effects (including the ring modulator) produce interesting results. The tri-chorus is kind of nice with everything set to min (except mix 100%). The other choruses work too.

 

The reverbs could possibly be used too by setting the mix to 100%, decay to 0%, and adjusting the pre-delay and tone to your liking. This actually allows for a <20ms path difference, but they also mess with the tone. The tile and chamber seem to be about the 'cleanest' sounding.

 

Still the best sounding one is the pitch glide. However, now there's all kind of combinations, pitch glide + reverb, pitch glide in one path, reverb in the other, etc. etc. etc.

[cclement]

This technique is actually called the Haas Effect. There are a few VST plug-ins out there that will do this automatically for you. You can get some really huge guitar sounds this way.

[NucleusX]

AHA! And now we enter the realm of psycho-acoustics, thanks for clarifying that for me.

I have achieved this in the VST environment, and am in total agreement, HUGE sound !

Didn't know this was called the "Haas Effect" tho, further down the rabbit-hole I go lol.