phil_m Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 It seems like people have been saying the next new great thing from Digitech is a few weeks out for the last few years now... It's like the singularity. We're always 20 years away from it. :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunpointmetal Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Digitech has already come out with SOME new processors, but they are more like updates to the RP series.... I get it, EQ functionality is not critical to the device being useful, but to me its like if Microsoft release Word and in the English language version all the menus are in Japanese...sure you can figure it out, maybe even make it convenient after some work, but it should have been in the proper language to begin with....having EQ's in % is stupid, and also poorly thought out (as in not thought out at all) and if I were a developer on this project I would feel like an lollipop for letting that get by into final production... seriously, we can't even use the word a$$? You gotta be lollipoping lollipopting me out a lollipop! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanDinosaur Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Well the RP series was similar if not better than the X3 series. The HD series changed that but now Digitech will bring some serious competition. Currently Digitech owns line 6 in Reverbs, modulations, continuous controllers, pitch shifting , harmony and EQ. If amp modeling is equal or better, line 6 will have to give boquets of flowers with love notes to the customers with new purchases. :lol: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumblinman Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Digitech has already come out with SOME new processors, but they are more like updates to the RP series.... I get it, EQ functionality is not critical to the device being useful, but to me its like if Microsoft release Word and in the English language version all the menus are in Japanese...sure you can figure it out, maybe even make it convenient after some work, but it should have been in the proper language to begin with....having EQ's in % is stupid, and also poorly thought out (as in not thought out at all) and if I were a developer on this project I would feel like an lollipop for letting that get by into final production... seriously, we can't even use the word a$$? You gotta be lollipop lollipopting me out a lollipop! From the rumors I've heard, Line 6 will be releasing a forum update at some time in the future to address the lollipop issue. Keep in mind, though, it's not a critical issue, just a major annoyance and in no way affects the usability of the forums. I see you have already come up with a workaround yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumblinman Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I bet L6 had the firmware update almost completed, but had to start all over to integrate everyone's requests from that steaming pile of lollipop Ideascale. "Jeepers! Folks want global EQ AND Hz? And what's all this hullabaloo about wanting popular amps instead of obscure ones? Doh! Scrap it all guys, we gotta start over!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumblinman Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Actually I'm fine with my Pod, I just wanted to find a way to use hullabaloo in a sentence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I don't disagree with you... just don't expect them to suddenly make it a priority 3 years later.. Digitech has already come out with SOME new processors, but they are more like updates to the RP series.... I get it, EQ functionality is not critical to the device being useful, but to me its like if Microsoft release Word and in the English language version all the menus are in Japanese...sure you can figure it out, maybe even make it convenient after some work, but it should have been in the proper language to begin with....having EQ's in % is stupid, and also poorly thought out (as in not thought out at all) and if I were a developer on this project I would feel like an lollipop for letting that get by into final production... seriously, we can't even use the word a$$? You gotta be lollipop lollipopting me out a lollipop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I know I'm seriously watching what Digitech does and I'm sure other Line6 customer are too. The PODHD is really good but it's not the new kid on the block anymore. The competition has had time to make improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipperShred Posted October 24, 2013 Author Share Posted October 24, 2013 While I could be wrong, I don't believe Peavey is forward thinking enough to implement the Revalver software into a hardware unit. There's no hint of that in the peavey forums, and I think they're still doing quite well with the Vyper line. It's certainly going to be a killer piece of software, but that's where it will end. A new flagship rack unit from digitech will be a game changer. Even when the GSP1101 was first introduced, it was 499.99, which was, and is, still two hundred bucks cheaper than the HD Pro, and it's a single rack space. When you're working with a 6U shallow rack, that makes a difference. Granted, before all the firmware side project updating going on, it probably was only worth that price, but still, not bad by any means. Pretty sure they'll be doing user IRs again, since it became a big deal during the must-be-beta project, so big bonus there. And considering what they were able to achieve through all those firmware updates in that program (which pretty much wrapped at V63 about a year and a half ago - about the time I got my HD Pro) I'm sure they've taken all that data and produced something to take note of. Whether they keep the 499.99 price tag, or something closer to the L6 699.99, it's going to be good. Very good. I'm excited again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanDinosaur Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I don't disagree with you... just don't expect them to suddenly make it a priority 3 years later.. Things changed quite a bit three years later. I know some don't like it when I bring Eleven Rack in the conversation, but any guitar player who considers POD HD PRO will likely consider Eleven at the same price. You get Pro Tools a full fledged DAW, similar hardware features and connectivity (better quality Knobs and hardware), Full Featured Studio EQ, Stunning Reverb in comparison, Re-amping at the software level, way more flexible more featured ASIO driver for serious recording. I'm sorry to be a little harsh, but line 6 shouldn't be allowed to call it HD PRO with the current EQ situation. Using HD PRO how long would it take to apply a notch somewhere between 140 to 200 hz? The short answer: it can't be done? Sure some nice customers created reference conversion from % to hz etc but moving at a 1% increment makes it a waste of time to precisely target a specific frequency in HZ! Many frequencies aren't included as a result even if you consult any reference or measure! Who gave Line 6 the right to omit that many frequencies? Their arrogance thinking they're rewriting how people should use EQ and arbitrarily ignore a bunch of frequencies. Every knob in the parametric EQ is a mystery and again the name they gave it "parametric EQ " is also deceiving. The manual doesn't state anything about the operation of the knobs! This is not a guessing game or is it. But I guess you know them better than most of us and realize how arrogant and suborn they are, that three years later they can't admit that EQ has turned off many customers who simply abandoned the platform altogether! It's a great piece of gear that can be way better with proper EQ. If Digitech comes up with similar modeling with real world parametric EQ, the EQ can be a deciding trigger for many to move to digitech. I've been on this bard for the last three years and I've seen quite a few people completely abandoned the HD line due to EQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanDinosaur Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I understand that many people would prefer the eq indications in hz rather than percentages, but that this might be the reason to change device, it seems absurd to me...... Using percentage instead of HZ is not only relevant to EQ but to everything that uses HZ such as modulation. Also when it comes to using the continuous controller it is a serious hindrance if you intend to do any creative continuous control of any parameter. If you ever try to control the speed of modulation you will notice it's in PERCENTAGE even if the actual parameter happened to be in HZ (modulation speed). Sure it's not a major deal but it gives an image of inability of the programmers at LINE 6 to do what's standard on other companies devices such as Digitech. Did you ever want to control the harmony interval? If you use POD HD it will only have two values and it won't scroll through the in between values! That's just simply weak and doesn't give an image of an advanced device considering Digitech controllers have been doing all of this for the last 30 years!Why shouldn't you be able to use the controller to sweep the modulation speed between 0 to 4 hz? Sure the HD500 is the best bread and butter processor out there for now but it could use a lot of updates!. I'm definitely interested in What Digitech has to offer, but I will likely keep the POD as it has some great tones that I don't think I'll be able to get anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Let's just label all the knobs like this: Knob1 Knob2 Knob3 Knob4 Then let's don't really tell you what they do just hint at it a little. Now just use your ears to make it sound right. You know I can drive down the road and look at the sun and tell which general direction I'm going but it's nice to have signs telling me a little more precisely. Line6 failed miserably in their EQs and have a number of other shortcomings that their competition does better. The only thing the competition needs to do is get slightly better than Line6 with the actual amp tone and I think it will hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunpointmetal Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 yeah....I don't know who you hang out with, but musicians I know talk about EQ and tone in regards to specific frequency...when a guitarist asks me what I'm doing to EQ my sound I don't want to say "Well, I set the low EQ to 20%, set the mids to 60%, set the lowpass at 80%, and there ya go!" See how stupid that sounds? I agree with the "shouldn't call it PRO with those EQs" statement...nothing pro about EQs that read like they were designed to go on some cheap a$$ piece of Best Buy toy musical equipment. If Digitech comes out with a board without the ridiculous patch change latency and as-good amp modeling, I'd consider it seriously! Also, a hardware ReValver floor board would be kick a$$! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 The musicians I hang out with don't talk about EQ at all... Not trying to be facetious. They really don't. I've had things where I've said stuff to sound guys, but it never goes beyond, "bring some of the upper mids up in that acoustic guitar channel"... I'm not trying to minimize the issue, but I just think these issues are only issues if the certain thing matters to you. I never use EQ. I generally don't like what it does to my guitar tone. I understand the frustration if it's a bedrock effect to you, though. I just don't think it is for most guitarists, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdanan0121 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 EQ is important to me, although I am a guitarist, I am also a composer, and mixing "engineer." EQ is something I have come to really value, as it is one of the main tools that can help a mix glue together nicely. Although to be fair I could just use my EQs in my DAW, but that is really beside the point. Knowing that the Pod HD lineup has this EQ issue, as well as cabs issue (and no IR loading) Is one of the reasons I am holding off on another POD. I too want to see what Digitech, and Peavey (if they are working on something) come out with. And whatever Line 6 does to compete... if anything. Ohh if I had the extra $$ I would just go Axe II, but that thing is so expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akeron Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Let's forget for a second the problems people have with the POD (included the "vague" documentation). What it seems really strange to me is the lack of communication from Line 6 (communication breakdown, it's always the same!). I understand that most of them are busy doing things for the company, but this is the first "community" I see in which the administrators never ever have something to say on anything, except rare cases. That gives the idea (right or wrong, who knows?) they don't really care about it... PS: Then you see they respond more often in other sections of this forum and\or in other forums (TGP for example) and the thing becomes even more "weird"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunpointmetal Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Let's forget for a second the problems people have with the POD (included the "vague" documentation). What it seems really strange to me is the lack of communication from Line 6 (communication breakdown, it's always the same!). I understand that most of them are busy doing things for the company, but this is the first "community" I see in which the administrators never ever have something to say on anything, except rare cases. That gives the idea (right or wrong, who knows?) they don't really care about it... PS: Then you see they respond more often in other sections of this forum and\or in other forums (TGP for example) and the thing becomes even more "weird"... I haven't quite understood that either...these line 6 employees who ghost post on other forums, but won't even come in here to say that "hey, we're working on a new firmware update, but we're having trouble getting all the info to fit." or just tell us there aren't gonna be any more updates so we can all stop wondering if that magical thing we want will ever show up and find a way around the problem. I've e-mail support directly to try and gather some information because no-one who can say anything ever does and they do the same thing..."We can't discuss unreleased features or equipment." .......get over yourselves L6, you're not the CIA, and telling users that there is or isn't a firmware update coming is not gonna wreck your business model..in fact, a lot of users would have a little more respect for the company with communication like that.... TL;DR-Hey Line 6, get you $hit together, keep your users in the loop (since without them you don't exist), fix your fvckin' EQs, and participate in your user forums a little bit......"Experts" who pop in to tell us they can't say anything about anything are not helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 In the simplest of terms... it's not our info to share... the Line6 employees you see on here are typically product mangers, and there are different managers for different products... all with different styles... and in different stages of their products/projects... they may not be here, because they have their sleeves rolled up and are working on the next whatever.... some may be around here, because they recently released a product and want to be visible. just like all of us here... time here... is time away from other things.... this user forum is a gift for all of us from line6...and i appreciate it for what it is... they have phone access and service ticket access for your direct needs. "Experts" who pop in to tell us they can't say anything about anything are not helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumblinman Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Things changed quite a bit three years later. I know some don't like it when I bring Eleven Rack in the conversation, but any guitar player who considers POD HD PRO will likely consider Eleven at the same price. You get Pro Tools a full fledged DAW, similar hardware features and connectivity (better quality Knobs and hardware), Full Featured Studio EQ, Stunning Reverb in comparison, Re-amping at the software level, way more flexible more featured ASIO driver for serious recording. I'm sorry to be a little harsh, but line 6 shouldn't be allowed to call it HD PRO with the current EQ situation. Using HD PRO how long would it take to apply a notch somewhere between 140 to 200 hz? The short answer: it can't be done? Sure some nice customers created reference conversion from % to hz etc but moving at a 1% increment makes it a waste of time to precisely target a specific frequency in HZ! Many frequencies aren't included as a result even if you consult any reference or measure! Who gave Line 6 the right to omit that many frequencies? Their arrogance thinking they're rewriting how people should use EQ and arbitrarily ignore a bunch of frequencies. Every knob in the parametric EQ is a mystery and again the name they gave it "parametric EQ " is also deceiving. The manual doesn't state anything about the operation of the knobs! This is not a guessing game or is it. But I guess you know them better than most of us and realize how arrogant and suborn they are, that three years later they can't admit that EQ has turned off many customers who simply abandoned the platform altogether! It's a great piece of gear that can be way better with proper EQ. If Digitech comes up with similar modeling with real world parametric EQ, the EQ can be a deciding trigger for many to move to digitech. I've been on this bard for the last three years and I've seen quite a few people completely abandoned the HD line due to EQ. 1 shot for me! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunpointmetal Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I don't see why it wouldn't be a good idea to have one or two people whose full-time job it is to respond to inquiries on the forums...THIS IS WHERE THE DEDICATED USERS ARE! Listen to the people who buy your products, listen to what they want to see, listen to how they use their stuff....if they would implement a third of what's suggested on here they would probably sell a lot more units...I mean, its been mentioned, but they basically gutted all the cool recording I/O from previous models for no apparent reason for the next gen stuff? why does that make sense? Who did they talk to to decide this stuff? My guess is no-one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 the very apparent reason is the limited DSP processing... the x3 with it's wealth of options, was a dual processor device... running lower resolution models... restricted in such a way as to allow such luxuries... i guess they figured... that they'd sell alot less units if they cost closer to 1000$ each.... for features that merely compliment the intended purpose of the device...yet do not define the device. .I mean, its been mentioned, but they basically gutted all the cool recording I/O from previous models for no apparent reason for the next gen stuff? why does that make sense? Who did they talk to to decide this stuff? My guess is no-one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 maybe you missed the economic collapse of 2008... employers had to trim numbers to stay profitable... anyway.... perhaps in better days.... I don't see why it wouldn't be a good idea to have one or two people whose full-time job it is to respond to inquiries on the forums... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdanan0121 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I mean, its been mentioned, but they basically gutted all the cool recording I/O from previous models for no apparent reason for the next gen stuff? why does that make sense? Who did they talk to to decide this stuff? My guess is no-one. This is one of the first main things that disappointed me about the whole HD family. On a site note: With USB 3.0 becoming more popular, they could really expand the recording I/O capabilities by quite a bit. This would of course mean new hardware, but I hope that the competition is thinking about this.. (make it BC with usb2.0, but some of the features are limited) Or just make full use of Usb2.0 Add a $50-150 to the price. (audio interfaces can do many channels through USB) I understand limited DSP, but make a higher grade model, and sell it "appropriately." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunpointmetal Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I get it, you love Line 6 like its a family member or something...this is company that provides services and products to users who pay them money, so if they want to keep receiving money from people, they should probably start listening to them.....what a crazy idea...also, what does DSP have to do with USB signal routing, and how hard would it have been to implement a software version that corresponds with the hardware for recording to restrict on-device usage and provide the same functionality...they put a lot of time and money into developing the modeling and crapped on everything else that wasn't already part of the M-series.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanDinosaur Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I agree with you that it would be better if certain parameters were expressed using the correct units of measurement, there is no doubt about that .. but at the same time I don't think at all that this is due to an inability of Line6 programmers, which instead are great in my opinion . I'm sure they're great also, but it's somewhat puzzling to me when I look at any modulation effect in the POD that has the speed parameter in HZ, but once you go to the controller section to control that effect and set the upper and lower limits for the speed parameter, it happens to be in %. Who knows what the reason is to use different units of measures for the same thing. It could be a sloppy short cut to save time that's caused by marketing saying "Finish this today" and it could be laziness. It also could be inability due to bad or not refined algorithm that wouldn't sound musical or smooth when run at shorter intervals, but regardless the reason, it doesn't give an image of advanced device when compared with 30 years old devices that can do the same thing as it's intended smoothly without zipper noise etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 It also could be inability due to bad or not refined algorithm that wouldn't sound musical or smooth when run at shorter intervals, but regardless the reason, it doesn't give an image of advanced device when compared with 30 years old devices that can do the same thing as it's intended smoothly without zipper noise etc.. When do you hear zipper noise? I control modulations quite a bit with the expression pedal and have never heard anything. I have heard of people hearing while using the expression pedal with HD Edit connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunpointmetal Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I don't know if you guys remember....but the RP modeling wasn't that far behind the current HD series, and it was quite a bit better than the X3/XT modeling...I can't believe if the whole EQ deal was a "get this done today" thing that they wouldn't have fixed it in firmware...the firmware updates we have had, with the exception of getting the original "eletrik" model back have barely even been about what users ask for, its whatever they feel like...I would have rather had normal EQs than adjustable Z, or a "vintage mic pre" that clips when ANYTHING goes into it...maybe I'm just sick of my POD and need something new...maybe L6 could do one or two things to make a whole fvckload of people happy.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanDinosaur Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 the pedal (or variax knob) controller works by percentage for some parameters and also the min and max settings can be set only in tens steps in those cases.. that's one of the (small for me) limits/compromises of the device I was speaking about in my last reply as an example if I want to gradually change the chorus speed from 0 to 4 HZ with the pedal, I can't get those exact values when using the controller, but I can get a close result if I set the controller min value to 0% and the max value to 30%.. if then I go to see how the pedal changes the chorus speed I'll get 0.10 HZ at mininum and 4.57 HZ at maximum position.. it does not seem a substantial difference I guess I'm not the only one who tries some of this stuff. Check out the "Frequency Shifter". The only musical and usable sound is when you set the "Speed" to somewhere between zero and 7hz. My favorite sound is between 1 to 5 hz. To get the effect I'm talking about, set the speed to 1 to 5 and you MUST set the wet/Dry to 50% otherwise it doesn't work! You get this very nice modern univibe sort of effect. Try it. Here's the kicker: Using HD edit, if you don't manually enter the hz as 1 or 5 etc and choose to use the knob, you first value is 20 hz or 30 hz so you have no chance of stumbling on this lovely modulation effect. It goes without saying when you go to the controller section 1% is somewhere at 30hz! so 1% to 100% almost the same unmusical sound, but anywhere between 1 HZ and 10hz, modulation delight!! Don't forget to set the wet/Dry to 50%. Here's an interesting thing about updates: this frequency shifter trick sounded so much smoother and musical in the earlier Firmwares, it didn't have any pulsating to it, but it's still very musical. So updates sometimes can be to the worse! So the point also is that sometimes there can be a huge difference in some modulation effects if you're able to control precisely and not using a percent. I actually took the time and reported this to line 6 directly about 3 years ago but I guess it's not that important. To me though, it just gives an image of sloppiness and lack of confidence in a product where so many simple things aren't addressed when I compare with the advanced well thought out design of the Xt, X3 and pod farm series. To me it's hard to believe that the company taht designed X3 and POD farm connectivity at the driver level is the same one that designed HD series recording capabilities at the driver level! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanDinosaur Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 ok.. maybe because I usually I have a very direct approach with my HD500 and even if I use my pc a lot I rarely use HD Edit and very often I do my tweakings with the POD knobs and controls.. therefore I don't know very well what happens good or bad using the dedicated editor.. so probably it is only a HD Edit issue, because directly on my POD I have no problem to assign 1 HZ for the min value and 5 HZ for the max value of the controller applied to the frequency shifter fx,.. and note also that in this case the values are directly espressed in hertz EDIT: out of curiosity I just checked the HD Edit program, and yes, I confirm that there is a difference between the controller parameters in HD Edit which are espressed in percentages and HD500 parameters which are instead espressed in Hz for the frequency shifter fx, maybe there will be other similar differences for other effects too.. oops, we just found a HD Edit bug Thank you for taking the time. I just gave you 4 points for the effort! This is incredible, I never thought to check the hardware screen editor! Which brings another point. this can be reversed on the HD editor as quite a few use the editor, line 6 can easily create a converter to make the HD edit show the EQs in Frequencies meanwhile the hardware can still show them in percentage. I guess doing that will make people realize that many frequencies are missing and then they would really have to fix it! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mput Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Did L6 say they were going to have another update? I've never seen anything that said they would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealZap Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Nope. I do believe that they will.... but they've never stated that they would... publicly or privately... just my opinion on the matter, that there will be updates eventually. Did L6 say they were going to have another update? I've never seen anything that said they would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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