kronda

I'm not very optimistic about bringing democratic principles into business but I guess it's clear that I'd like to hear from Line 6 so... Bump

I think you are kind of "expecting too much". Well, it's just a matter of opinion but for me (a longtime POD HD user) the thinking goes like this: Since the raw DSP power (what one DSP chip can do) and the models (apart from the reverbs and some wahs) have both been improved I see it as similar to POD HD in terms of how many models you can put on one DSP unit (because you have more raw DSP power but also more demanding models). So if you're saying two amps and two cabs plus two fx models then that seems about right to me. The improvement in Helix then mainly comes from the two DSP units it has, so you can utilize approx. twice as much as what POD HD could run (say four amps with cabs and couple of fx models or two amps with cabs plus perhaps 12 fx models) but you have to use both DPS units / paths. I'm using Helix to process both my electric guitar tone and vocal at the same time for live and I'm using paths 1A, 1B and 2A chained for the guitar and path 2B for my vocal and so far don't have much complains about DSP power available. But I'm running just one amp with two cabs. That said I'm a little bit concerned what would happen if completely new HX models of reverbs arrive (I hope for that as the current HD models sound a bit dated compared to the new awesome stuff) as reverbs are generally very demanding. But then for live use I could always do with an older reverb if I have a more demanding patch which could not fit another HX reverb so I'm also glad the HD reverbs were converted for Helix (as I assume they wouldn't be replaced by the new models but they would be added).

That's why I would love to hear an honest story from Line 6. Perhaps it was some kind of trade off. I would then think the decision was wrong but perhaps understandable as they had to make a judgement call. But honestly the silence just means to me it was a screw up that they don't want to comment on as that would spread a negative word about Helix much further than to these discussions.

Sure but my experience is that we're playing EITHER a better-equipped place and there is a large mixer with phantom switches on all individuall channels and there indeed are a few DI boxes laying around (not needed for Helix) OR we're playing a really small place where there is a small mixer with just a single phantom switch for all channels and then the soundguy just has (at most) a single (crappy) DI box which (ooops) he'll have to use for our keyboard player. Bummer. There are definitely many solutions, yours possibly being the cheapest but it would just all be the easiest if the Helix was designed well...

I'm not sure I will be able to convince the local soundguy in every club to reconnect his end of the snake cable with my two XLR->TRS cables just because Line 6 were thinking so much about creating a perfect modelling tool that they forgot it had to be connected to a mixing board in order to be played ;)

Hi again, I raised a support ticket to get more info about this issue (sound quality degradation when phantom power is switched on on the channels connected to Helix XLR outs) and asked Line 6 whether there will possibly be any fix (firmware or repair) available. This is the response I got from Line 6 Will: ... "I also do not know of any fix that will be done to units to rectify this." I guess it's time to order my two phantom blockers as I plan to start gigging with Helix in January. Even though I consider this a let down from Line 6 (both the actual problem and the non-communication approach) I'm gonna close this issue for myself now. I have to say I haven't played my Helix for a week now because this issue annoyed me so much. Time to get back to it!

Oh well, it all sounded like it was round the corner... Time to bend my back and go back to tweaking. At least give us some new models to play with ;)

Word!

Sure, no problem. We're just discussing, so far mainly reaffirming our own opinions :)

Ok: 1) First of all it's mainly a matter of (no) communication now - both for sentimental and practical reasons (should I invest into a phantom blocker? Not sure till not confirmed by Line 6 this can't/won't be fixed - firmware or warranty repair). 2) How is this not Line 6's problem? It prevents you to use a combination of Line 6 products (Helix, M20) in certain scenarios (condensor mics) without using workarounds (1/4" or other gear - DI box, phantom blocker...). Line 6 can perhaps blame their supplier for whichever component is causing this but we can blame Line 6 for Helix (either they knew about this issue from the beginning or they didn't and should have found out during testing as it's their product). 3) Not having outputs isolated from phantom power is totally unacceptable in professional , or any audio, for that matter. Well, that depends. I live in the world of small to medium stages using small to medium mixers and honestly I think most of these small mixers produced nowadays don't have separate controls to switch phantom off on individual channels. Sure it would be better to have it but the world into which Line 6 produced their Helix is not such. And mainly, Line 6 is producing M20, a premium mixer which also does not have this feature. So I'd assume they would make Helix compatible with their product line... Just a personal story to conclude this: Once I was told beforehand that we will be playing a stage where there is just a single button to control phantom on all channels and we'll need to switch it on (drums overheads). So I went through all our devices that needed to be connected (Ampeg bass amp XLR out, my Pod HD Pro XLR outs and TC Helicon Voiceworks Plus and a Kurzweil keyboard with balanced outs) and checked with all the manufactures whether it's safe to connect these and whether it will sound right. All responses (include Line 6's) was "Of course, there is no problem". Usually they added "All our products are ready for phantom". Now with a premium Line 6 device it's not "of course" anymore.

I also expect this is not software-fixable and really want some honest communication from Line 6 on this. I find it ridiculous for a product in this price range (plus it wouldn't work even with their own M20 mixer) and the least Line 6 could do is to say "sorry, it's a problem with our product, we cannot do anything about it" (I understand it may be a supplier problem but Line 6 are responsible anyway). That said I don't think we'll get anything from Line 6 because 1) the Knowledge Base item is dated Oct 31 and there's just silence since then and 2) we probably just can't expect that Line 6 would choose to put out any communication which would be kind of saying "Helix is a bad product". I have a really bad feeling about this and it's partly because chatting with Line 6 representation here creates a sort of friendly environment among Line 6 and Helix early adopters but when you really need an honest word there is just dead silence. My bad, it's just business after all. Hell, I would just like to know who screwed this up or if they just knew from the design stage as they made a deliberate decision and thought "so what, they'll get over this...". Anyway back to reality. I am always going straight to mixer and cannot afford to not be prepared for a situation when phantom power cannot be switched off on the mixer for my channels (I've been having gigs like that). I like the TritonAudio Phantom Blockers posted in the XLR hiss forum, not the cheapest (ART DTI is cheaper as it has two channels) but definitely the lightest and smallest thing I found so far which is quite a big deal for me (Helix not being the lightest and smallest thing...). So I'll be "lugging" two of these with me on every gig. Helix just got $120 more expensive and 96g heavier... oh well, life is not perfect.

Digital_Igloo, Is the "phantom power on XLR outs" issue not listed in the release notes because it's not software-fixable (I assume) or because it's been fixed in this firmware? Thanks.

Perhaps, we'll see but I wouldn't be surprised if the Knowledge Base item is all we'll ever get on this one as I think this hiss problem is not solvable by software update...

That sucks... I don't count on the phantom blocker give-away at all, just asked what people think. It's issues like this (worked fine on older products from Line 6, not mentioned in manual, no honest word from Line 6 whether it's a "designed feature" :wacko: or a mistake) that drive me mad and that sticky topic "Why is Line 6 not responding???" doesn't really calm me down as this is exactly a ...thing that I can't easily ignore at this price tag. Anyway, practically it's just "deal with it" or "leave it", nothing will change, and since this can be "solved" by spending additional $120 or less, it's still quite fine. It's just embarrassing - sadly not just for the designer of the product but also for us...

This looks like a nice device but it's not exactly cheap (~$60), more so that we need two of them. Anybody thinks it would be an appropriate gesture from Line 6 to send all current Helix owners (who were not notified about the phantom power problem before buying) two of these for free?

Well, thanks for all the info, guys. I feel really disappointed and share with you all the frustration over this issue. I understand nothing is perfect and as this is the first real issue with Helix that I'm aware of I'm not going to return it. But silence from Line6/Digital Igloo on these matters is driving me quite mad as Helix is supposed to be such a premium piece of gear. That KnowledgeBase item is a joke... I guess the first real ball dropped on the Line 6 side in the Helix playground. Hope for not many more.

As I've tested my new Helix and easily established it's a keeper I'm starting the HD->HX migration and I'd need a couple of missing effects to be added from HD, hopefully HX-modelled so brand new and better. Please vote if you miss these as well: Sub-Octave-Fuzz: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Sub-Octave-Fuzz/797971-23508 Slow Filter: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Slow-Filter/797972-23508 Octisynth: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Octisynth/797973-23508 Obi-Wah (I already posted this one): http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Obi-Wah/797426-23508 Seeker (not my Ideascale entry...): http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/M-series-Seeker-model-in-Helix/794010-23508 I think that would be all, I can sell my HD Pro once these are done ;)

Thanks. Yes, seeker is similar but I just use it in one song. I have more use for obi-wah... Anyway, voted for seeker as well: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/M-series-Seeker-model-in-Helix/794010-23508

Now that my Helix is on its way to me it's time for some ideascaling... ;) For those of you who are missing Obi-Wah (Sample & Hold filter) on Helix, please vote here: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Obi-Wah/797426-23508 I loved it both in XT and HD...

Sends/Returns - balanced or unbalanced? Thanks

@Rino: sure, I might be wrong, just trying to notice any similarities in the cases. @spawn2031: thanks for the info, we'll see. We can hardly prove here (that's Line6 job) it's the USB connection causing it. We can only hope nobody falsifies this presumption (especially while playing a gig :huh: )

Ok, thanks for the info, guys. As you both seemed to be using POD USB-connected to computer as a soundcard at the time of the noise I now suddenly recalled: with my old POD XT I had an issue with one of my laptops that when I was using it as a soundcard and playing some backing tracks through it (not depending whether I was playing guitar at the same time or not) it from time to time suddenly bursted with huge white (or similar) noise. It was usually just for a while (seconds but not sub-second) but as I was using headphones it terrified the crap out of me. I know I solved this by some computer tweaking and it was purely something around POD not receiving the backtrack data over USB fast enough or in sync or something (possibly a USB driver thing) but there was nothing wrong with my POD and it never happened when not using it as a soundcard. Do you think it could be similar here, i.e. only caused by the audio played on POD over USB from the computer? (please, pretty please, let this be it so that my band fans' ears are safe...) EDIT: ok, I see now that you, rino2, were not using it as a soundcard so perhaps not exactly the same thing but still worth checking whether this ever happened without USB connected. Isn't it still possible that your computer played a sound over POD (like a system pop-up sound or something)?

It's probably Line6 support's job here but anyway as we have a large audience here let's try to narrow it down ourselves (as I'm scared to wait for this to happen while gigging): For those who experienced this issue (preferably using fw 2.62) please provide: 1) POD HD model - so far it seems as only HD Pro occurrences here or others (HD, HD 500, x models) as well? (EDIT: HD500x affected as well , so probably all models - rino2) 2) Variax over VDI or Guitar In or which input(s) were you using when it happened? (EDIT: hoped it was a Variax VDI issue, evidently not - rino2) 3) Was your POD connected to a computer over USB at the time? 4) Any digital connections (IN or OUT) over SPDIF/AES/Line6Link? (see my note below why I think this might be relevant) - (EDIT: perhaps irrelevant - rino2) 5) Amp/Cab/Mic + FX models used in the patch... 6) Global EQ on/off? (probably irrelevant as can happen when off - rino2) I have HD Pro, using it very often (rehearsing/gigging), most of the time with [Guitar In or Variax VDI (Acoustic 700)] and XLR out only and this never happened to me. But I noticed that when I use Variax VDI and Dry Digital Out (for recording both wet and dry signals at the same time) there is a small click in the output signal from time to time like if the digital in (VDI) and digital out got out of sync or something. So perhaps it could be related. Thanks for everybody's help here.

Well, I wouldn't be that optimistic here. POD HD500 RELEASE NOTES v2.31.00 ... This release addresses an issue with audio feedback that could potentially occur when changing patches with a specific combination of settings. It is strongly recommended that all users install this update as soon as possible. ...

Oh my, it's getting bad. So 2.62 is affected...