coachz

that totally makes sense. You can look at a template and see what interesting things the guitar player is doing but then you have to look at your guitar your pickups and the sound you really trying to achieve and use all that information to get it. Then they have some cool way of splitting channels to get a certain effect and you can certainly learn from all this cool stuff. There's a lot of great Helix info out there to help a person really Master this device and customize it to be their own. Won't somebody buy me one? Hahaha

Makes sense, thanks.

I'm asking, not telling. if the poster above is unable to get the tube feel that he knows then in my mind it either has to be a latency issue or the modeler. I'm just trying to learn so feel free to let me know what would be the likely reason. Very interested

I would think a different feel might be a latency.

Why not just get the HX then?

Brutal !

Great info. Thanks! Jason has awesome videos. Very informative. I'm a very technical guy but it took me a while to learn about the signal paths on the screen. I may still be wrong but tell me if this is right. It starts with two stereo paths but you can either branch off or break them out in two completely separate paths for a total of four stereo paths. Damned if this didn't take me hours to figure out even though they claim the interface is very intuitive. It does seem damn intuitive once I know that nugget. Am I close? Also once you go to the modeler world it's like your stage changes too. Now you can go towards inner ear monitors and not need the stage amps. And something like an inexpensive boss katana might be a great monitor to sit behind me to aim at the audience and not break the bank while I try to come up with an inexpensive in-ear monitor plus a couple of decent floor wedges

Thanks so much. That's the kind of gigging info I am looking for. I have watched a ton of helix videos and see the power of this unit. Stupid question.....how does it hold up in the rain? Have you had any close calls playing out? Is the joystick a fragile component? I read some posts of a few problems with it. The 3 yr extended year by year warranty seems like cheap insurance. Thanks again for taking the time to relate your reality to me. At 58 yr old I don't want to lift big cabinets.

Thanks for the great info. Can you tell me a bit more about how different the sound is compared to your jcm800 live? How would you describe the 1. Feel, response, latency 2. The sound quality? Do you actually like the helix better or the jcm800?

Really good information and I really appreciate it. My title about replacing the jcm800 was theoretical. I only have a tone lab le and a marshall DSL 15 so I was curious as to my next step and whether it would take me down the road of heavy tube amps or lightweight modelers. Since my focus is live sound that's why I keep coming back to ideas that can bring the modeler closer to the live sound and if using a physical marshall cabinet can do that then I'm golden. My goals are mostly marshall sounds so a marshall cabinet would be fine for all of those models but I just don't know how the theory of modelers crosses over into the reality of stage amplifiers and whether a marshall cabinet with a helix jcm 800 model through a clean amp would sound the same as a jcm 800 head and if not ..... doesnt that mean the model needs work. Thanks again for all the constructive conversation. My background is electrical engineering and software programming with a good knowledge of acoustics so this is very interesting to me plus I have retired so it gives me more time to think about this stuff.

Where do you dl his templates?

so if the modeler is doing its job then running that directly out without a cabinet Sim into a clean amplifier and then into a marshall 4 by 12 cabinet should sound and play just like a jcm 800 No? Would this be the way to get the closest experience with a nice heavy 83 lb cabinet?

by Power Amp you are referring to a clean amp I would guess, otherwise you're getting two amp models one from Helix and one from the power amp

Great information. Is this where you just dont select a mic for a cab?

So with your g100t you indicated you can get the same sound and feeling with an FR FR monitor. But then you were talking about mic'd up sounds so I'm confused I get that the guitar speaker is much more directional but if you are standing dead center face-to-face with each of those are you able to get the sound you want that convinces you that you have your g100 T directly in front of you?

how is the Kemper different and why would it be able to get closer to a live to Tube amp?

it does make a lot of sense. but I still think you need a couple of Marshall amp stack facades to look cool. Hehe also having a real full 4x12 is no picnic. those suckers weigh 80 pounds each

Ok I understand.

Thanks. I love bands like that as you can tell.

Great information. So do you use In-ear monitors? Or would you have had the same situation with the really loud drummer and needed to crank up to compete? Do you have any monitors to give the direct guitar sound to the audience member who standing right in front of you or do they only get it from the PA on the side?

see for me the experience has always been being in front of the guitar player and his amp. Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai, Mark Knopfler and 50 others. these are the guys I grew up on and hearing their amps from the front rows. I've learned to hate my local Coliseum because I get up close to the Bands and there are no stage monitors and the nearest speaker is 40 ft away on my left so the sound sounds stupid. I just saw Styx a couple of weeks ago with the same setup and I hated every minute of it. I much prefer to go to one of our smaller venues that seat about 900 people where I can get up front and have actual guitar amps. I always wear musician's earplugs and get them adjusted just right where the volume is just perfect. so for me as an audience member what I'm listening for is definitely not a PA sound but a real guitar player. it appears that using a modeler cannot create that sound that I'm looking for from what I'm reading here. it saddens me to see the technology change where the guitar and the sound are becoming unconnected in my mind

what do you mean by amp thing in a room thing? I wonder if they sound different because of the reflections that are recorded in the mic, early Reflections being the most important? I wonder if recording in a anechoic chamber with a dummy head would get us even closer to the real experience? if I'm listening on axis down the dead center of the speaker then dispersion is no longer a consideration in this comparison also.

I hear what you're saying. I was hoping someone with stage experience with tube amps could chime in. I'm really curious if we went to a live stage where a guitar player has and FRFR monitor right behind him just like a 4 by 12 cab does he hear the sound of being in a control room at a recording studio or more the sound of a live cranked tube amp? I mean it would be easy enough to put both on a stage behind a guitar player and compare the two and see how close the modeler can get to a real tube amp. I'm sure somebody knows this already and that's what I'm really trying to learn. How close is it do the real deal? So you take a jcm 800 and create a classic rock sound on a live stage. How close can the modeler get to that through an FRFR monitor also directly behind guitar player or will the guitar player be hearing it as if he was in a control room at a recording studio and it sound completely different? anyone up for making a video?

I don't think so as it wasn't connected and he said he wasn't using it. He may have used it in the past but with his current rig he is not doing any midi control of effects at all. he's just running his guitar to a few pedals on the floor going out to stereo chorus to the Legacy amps. So no modelers are involved which is the topic I'm most interested in. That endorsement was 2010

I talked to Steve Vai after the concert and it's just a few pedals and into his amps. there's a YouTube video that has his exact setup as he played in January here. What I was hearing from Steve was definitely no modeling and just his legacy amps 20 feet away direct. he gets a great stereo sound from the two amps driven by the stereo chorus