Doug6String

Great - thanks for the reply. I'll try the preset later tonight!

Cool - I'll try your preset too. I have a cable from the mono and another from the stereo jacks on the JP going to the Helix guitar in and aux, and I have a preset with a path for each of them. This gives me the piezos and mags on their own Helix paths and this works exactly as I want. I don't think a Y cable gives me more than this, but I thought I'd ask you - any benefit I'm missing? Thanks!

I was a fizz sufferer early this year when I got my rack and this forum quickly fixed me and my Helix (and Native) have been essential ever since. In my research on the forum back then (I hope I'm remembering correctly), there was a lot a talk about how the Helix had more frequencies than you get from a guitar amp/speakers and that there wasn't anything wrong with it - you needed to know how to get the tone you want. Whatever I learned then worked - I never have fizz issues and I love my tone(s). Of course we still get newbies with the fizz/tone issues and they get directed toward the numerous threads that help, like I did. I thought this was understood and documented (how to get rid of fizz and get tone), but maybe not? It's just one data point, but I don't hear any difference in the Helix tone. I'm using my fav presets now like I was before the update and if there's a difference, it's imperceptible to my ears. Still an interesting topic!

I'm with you on this. I was curious about this a while back because Native seemed to sound the same but I wanted to know. I copied some presets out of my Helix rack and put them and the same IRs in Native and did some recording. Maybe some spectral analysis could find a difference but sure can't hear any the way I tested, which is admittedly very simple.

I just got a JP15 7 string not more than a month or so ago. It's an amazing guitar. I hadn't tried using both outputs on the guitar yet until your post (just been playing it). I was using the mono output to Helix guitar in and using the guitar to select the piezos, mags, or both. So I tried using the guitar mono out to Helix guitar in and the stereo out to the Helix aux in. This is really cool! In the Helix I have one path for mag pups (a clean tone) and the other is an acoustic IR for the piezos. I haven't spent much time messing with all the variables yet, but panning 100% L and R for each path with both pups selected sounds great, more like two separately recorded guitars played at different times than the exact same playing. I'm surprised! Thanks for enhancing my fun!

Your approach is diff from mine (fremen presets) so I see your issue. I make all my own so I'm less likely to have as many issues. Every couple months I get the bug to work on my IRs. I did this recently and spent a day seeing which ones I don't use, and taking them out and putting the remaining ones in a rationale order then fixing all my presets. If I was still working I wouldn't have the time for that! Now that I think about that, it really sucked! The help page has the IR manager for Macs but I don't think there's one for Windows yet and it probably won't solve our problems anyway!

I have the rack too. It's like work - don't come with a problem if you don't have a solution! Helix and Native are both amazing (at least to me). I've done some sound comparisons and I can't tell Native from "the real thing." Been doing some recording, as usual, and both continue to amaze me. Since this is kind of about IRs, I really enjoy the IR discussions on the Helix Forum. That's all I use (no cabs) and it is amazing how everyone (me too, of course) has IRs from one maker that sound better than other makers and everyone is so passionate about which ones are best.

It's the same as the Helix, which I have, so I guess I'm just used to it. All my IR names have the same number as it's location and I drag IRs out and stick others in for evaluation. I'm pretty methodical so I don't mess up too much. But yeah, you need good notes or you're hosed! Been there, done that!

To answer your question directly, in my test, yes. I was wondering something similar so I tried looking at your question and my own. In a simple test of just changing the IR in a particular IR location (not in the preset), the presets that uses that IR location will use the new IR. That makes sense to me and is not surprising. I do note that in probably all DAWs you can render the track and use the current IR and if you change that IR it won't impact the sound. What is more relevant to me is, I used a Native preset that was already saved and I changed the IR in the preset (not globally in the IR list) and I changed an amp setting. I did not save that changed preset, but I saved the song in my DAW. When I reopened the song, the changes I made were there - very cool and as one would hope. When I put the original preset on a new track, it was not changed, which also makes sense.

I'm glad I could serve as a vehicle for you and Fr0sty to bond over FL Studio! :D Earlier this year I switched from another DAW I used for a decade to Studio One because of Native glitches that DaW acknowledged! Wasn't that a smooth move! I actually like S1 a lot and will use the workarounds. Thanks for the help (and entertainment).

Thanks. And if Fr0sty is reading, thank you too. I actually did search and try to find info but the Presonus thread escaped me. It's great you took the time. And after reading that thread, once again I am thrilled to be part of this Forum and the Helix Forum! This really does make it clear that it is not Native. I know all the tricks and workarounds and I can live with that because I really like Studio One. And the easiest thing is to render with the option of reversal, which I do when necessary. Again, thanks to you and the others for taking the time to help!

I assume if you're using different presets on each track you have to have Native running on each track. If I can have just one instance of Native in a song, that would obviously be great. I just looked at the manual and did a search online and I don't see anything addressing this. Can you elaborate or point me to how to do this? Thanks!

Did you ever figure this out? I have a very similar PC (only diff is 4.2 GHz speed and 16 GB RAM) and use the latest version of Studio One with a Studio 192 and when I use Native it's using 25% of my resources per use. That's better than your situation, but not workable for any slightly complex song. I'm not sure if it's Native or Studio One, or both? Thanks!

I should have added I am running 64 bit and vst3 for Native. I have 4 cores running so I assume it's running across 4 cores, which is preferred over a single thread. While only one data point other than me, since you don't seem to have the same issue, I'm thinking there's something not set right for me. I have done a lot of reading over the years on optimizing a PC for DAW use and I thought I covered everything, but I'll take another look. Thanks!

When I use Native, my CPU usage for each instance of Native on a track uses 20-25% of my system resources. I have two guitar parts in a song that I double tracked, so I have 4 instances on Native engaged on 4 tracks with nothing else in the song yet. This uses nearly 100% of my system resources and leads to jerkiness during playback. I know I can render (or whatever term your DAW uses) these tracks and that eliminates this issue, and I can "unrender" the tracks if I decide to change Native. But I am wondering if others have a similar experience. I'm probably going to get 32 GB of RAM, which I think will help. When not using Native, I have had 30-40 tracks including 3 tracks with Superior Drummer 3 and only use 10-15% of my resources. Anyone else experiencing this? Thanks - Doug PC, Windows 10, 16 GB RAM, SSD and HD, i7, 7700, 4.6 GHz processor, 64bit, Studio One 3 DAW, Studio 192 audio interface

I'm with Zooey on this - if you're happy it's better not to ask everyone's opinion on IRs! I have bought and tried a lot of IRs because it's fun and I can. And unlike many Helix users, my IR slots are only about half full because in the end I really only use a few. The IR conversations are really interesting - everyone's taste in IRs is so subjective. One thing I am certain of is that even within one IR maker, different IRs can really impact tone so the options are endless.

Thanks! I am doing what you suggested and it is all working great. I am pretty stunned at how Native and the rack seem to be identical in sound, although there are some on this forum having problems getting the tone they want. Even though I only do home recording (no bands), for me, having the rack is essential and worth every penny for sculpting my tones for eventual use in Native. Very cool!

Wow! I'm really impressed! That's a very creative patch (with great improvising) and I have not tried using a dual path the way you did, so thanks for a cool idea. I love the music, which serves the video well (or maybe you prefer that the video serves the song!). And of course doing this live online from different locations makes it all the more impressive! Is that a clip from a movie? Great job - I really enjoyed it!

You make a great point for me - it helps to have all the facts before providing advice!

Here's a little advice from a different direction from a newbie who got the Helix early this year. Many of us are initially shocked at what seems like bad tone. The forum is filled with discussion related to this, especially fizz. As far as I have seen, it's always fixable unless there's an actually defective unit (seems really rare). While not universally accepted, many of us believe the best way to get "your" tone is to create you own presets. You can learn some cool approaches from others' presets. And finally, it seems that is can take significant time to really get a handle on the Helix, and I still learn new things all the time, and others have said they are after having it for years. If you think about all the parameters the amps, speakers, IRs, and all the effects have, the options are almost infinite (slight exaggeration). My experience, which is someone with digital and modeling experience, is still that the possibilities are staggering. Point is, be patient and realize really getting control of this thing might take longer than a few weeks. I don't have a single preset I created early on that I still use. I'm always learning something new and tweaking things and trying new amps, etc. Patience my be required!

We certainly don't have to swap out pickups to do any of this and I rarely have any unwanted noise using the Helix/Native. I play a Guthrie Govan Charvel, Ultra Strat, Godin, PRS, and occasionally a Variax and they all sound pretty different. Like many on the Helix forum, I create presets for the kind of pickups my guitar has. Presets I made for the Start sound too thin for my PRS neck pups, for example. When I first got my Helix I watched some videos, like the first, and copied exactly what they did and it sounded pretty close, if not exact. On the second one, that's an unusual guitar and will play a role in the tone. Of course these are two Line 6 guys, so they really know what they're doing! None of the stock presets sound that good for me, but, those tones are certainly obtainable. I have a few suggestions. I'm going to try sending you a couple of my presets through the email feature here. And I'll make a couple short clips of me using them. I'll use my Guthrie Govan. It can be similar to an LP. A word of caution - I swap presets with a friend and early on I bought presets from some of the "famous" sellers. They never sound the same for me. It's the guitar, the headphones, the "who knows what." But you ought to be able to tweak mine, which are not complex, to get a tone you like, or see how to create your own to get certain tones (sorry - I have no clue on your experience level). I assume you don't use IRs? They will NOT fix your issue, but I am one of many that use them so I'll include them so your comparison to my tone is "accurate." And if your tone "sucks" after trying my presets, please send me a clip. The other thing that took my Helix from being a really expensive bad purchase to heaven, was the Helix forum. There is a ton of discussion on how to get great tone. You should search that. This is a very common discussion. Above I mentioned a couple things that always come up (high cut, create your own presets...).

OK. I'll check back. Don't give up on Native!

I had a very lengthy discussion off-line with a Helix used on that forum. He said what your saying. He directed me to some example videos on youtube and it was all about how those tracks were recorded (typically doubled) and in other cases after doing some research I read that the guitar the person was using has "special" pickups, etc. Without hearing them or you, we can't give specific advice, but you used the word "lush" which leads me to believe they are double tracking their guitar or using stereo effect and you not. That's my best guess without any info. And depending on who you are listening to, they might be selling presets or themselves so they are not just sitting down and playing and recording like us. I bought the Helix rack earlier this year and Native a couple months ago. They sound identical and I could literally not be happier with what I can do with them. On this comment - "For example let's take Helix Native as an example. I could never make my sound like the ones in the demos." I don't know you, but I disagree with this. If you record your guitar the way they do (with their guitar and equipment), other than playing style, you can sound exactly like them with Native. And FYI - I don't even own monitors. I only use headphones and they are definitely not the issue for you or me unless yours are super cheap. The other thing to keep in mind is that Native (and the Helix) have infinite possibilities (knobs to turn). Just think about all the amps you can choose from and and all their settings, and all the cabs, and then all the IRs, effects, etc. It takes significant time to figure out how to get the tone you want. If you want to end the link to some videos you're talking about and a clip of you, I'd be happy to give my opinion. It took me a long time to convince the other forum member it was how these other guitars were recorded and not his use of Helix, but he finally got it.

Hi - I've had Helix rack since early this year and I love it. I've had Native for a couple months and the sound is identical for the same preset and I love it and use it all the time for recording. Bjnette has a good point on levels. Input and output in Native are critical. I also kinda laugh on the fizzy/thin issue. If you search the Helix forum on that topic, you'll find it's almost endless and new Helix owners regularly post this problem before searching the forum. It's easily fixable. I think you're where I was when I first got my Helix rack. I was disappointed and didn't even like it. I went to the Helix Forum and it helped my fix this "problem" and now I love it, and because I created all my own presets and use them in Native, I love it too. You'll see two key things on the forum (and a ton more that might be helpful). Most of us a high cut, somewhere around 5 kHz. Where and when you use it depends on you. Maybe in EQ, maybe elsewhere. Also, while some people think the stock presets are usable, most of us don't and we create our own presets from scratch. You should treat native like you just bought a Helix Lt/Rack/floor and read the forum and see how to sculpt your tone. I am also happy to help since I went though this this year. If you need more input from me, quote me so I know you responded or you can send me an email directly through this site. I don't read this forum very often. I advise you to NOT buy a Helix to get better tone. There are a lot of other reasons one might want a Helix (I have a lot and love mine) but better tone than Native isn't one.