kraftybob

From these comments:

I have not updated to 2.8 yet so I cannot comment on the specifics of this install. However, I don't care if install instructions are 5 lines or 5 pages, there should be code built-in to check for prerequisites and abort the install if not present. You shouldn't have to rely on the user no matter how clearly it's spelled out in the instructions. It's easy enough to fool-proof those items and not hard to do no matter how big or small your development team is. However, with any software/firmware update you should always run a backup first and read the instructions completely before running the install package. That doesn't mean you won't run into trouble, but it will certainly minimize problems you may have. There is no reason for not doing this other than you're rushing to get it done. Regarding the statement that Microsoft and Apple "have THOUSANDS of programmers on the payroll", that's true, but they're not all working on the same product. Each product has it's own development team and you'd be surprised to know that not all of them have massive headcount. But you're also right they they do not get it right 100% of the time. Nobody does, that's why patches are released on a regular basis (aside from security updates) for bug fixes, feature updates, etc. Ah, the wonderful world of software development :)

Here's the patch I was using to send one path to the Effects Return of my DSL and the other to my Mac. I think I may know part of the problem - I'm only using a preamp in the chain because I'm using the DSL's power amp section. So the signal going to the Mac/Garageband only has the additional speaker cab. I wondering if the output to the Mac should have an amp & cab, not preamp and cab? But then I need to split the chain earlier and add another reverb to the Mac output? Thanks! AC_DC 2.hlx

Later this morning I'll send the patch I was using to separate the two like I described before. Thanks for checking this one out and I'm glad to hear I'm close. Maybe it is how Garageband interprets the signal? Thanks!

Here's a simple patch I threw together tonight. I didn't adjust the tones until after the speaker. I think I left this one w/T75's but a lot of the speakers just seem muffled to me. I appreciate you taking a look at it. Thanks! Priests2.hlx

First of all I can't thank you all enough for taking the time to explain this to me. It's been very eye opening! I completely get what you're all saying about what I hear vs the audience and I certainly want the audience to hear the best possible tone. I'll deal with the rest if that's the case. This I finally get! When I run it through my amp I don't use any cabinet blocks, and only use a preamp block when the signal goes direct into the effects loop return. To record though, I set up a parallel path and only added a cab block to the second path. I then set the top path to 1/4" as that goes to my amp, and the bottom path with only the cab block to USB 1/2 and that goes to my computer. Even with this the recording sounds muffled and loses volume. I have watched some of Jason Sadites videos, and while I think they're good, I have a tough time sitting through some of them because they're long (30, 40, 50 minutes, etc). I tend to lean toward the guys that get right to it, however, being in the situation I'm in, I will go back and spend some time watching his videos. I'm sure it's something I'm doing so later today I'm going to disconnect the amp and run the Helix only into my Mac - to isolate the two. Once I get that figured out, I'll then add my amp back into the mix and go from there. Again, all the information is greatly appreciated!

Messing around some more tonight and setup a preset using amps instead of the preamps (I was going direct into the effects loop of my amp) and added a speaker cab. The recordings are getting better but I'm still finding I lose tone with the Cab blocks. I tried several different ones and while some are brighter than others, they still seem very muted compared to what my actual amp sounds like. I loaned out my SM57 to a friend and won't get it back until next week, but if I don't figure it out by then I do a recording to capture the difference.

@codamedia - thank you - I appreciate it! Just trying to learn and get the most of out this and always appreciate those willing to respond. Now on to my "I'm an idiot" moment. All the recording I've been doing up to this point has been with a preamp block, but no speaker blocks. Sounds good coming out of my amp, but not so much in my computer. I tested various speaker blocks, did the low and high cuts that @rvroberts suggested and my recordings sound much, much better! Thinking about it further I guess I'm surprised there's any sound going to the computer without a speaker cab in place because without it, what was Helix sending to the USB port? Anyhow, I think I'm getting close, however, when I add a speaker cab it drops the volume considerably lower and I lose a lot of the high frequencies - both through my amp and also in GarageBand. Going through the amp I wasn't necessarily surprised because I'm essentially going from one speaker cab to another. But I thought the USB to Garageband would be better, but it's not. To test things further I setup a parallel path and put the speaker cab in there. I changed the Output of the top path (without a speaker cab) to 1/4" and the bottom path (speaker cab only) to USB 1/2. I figured if this setup works it shouldn't matter if i'm just playing through the amp or both that and FOH as they are two separate outputs. The amp sounds better again, but there is no change to the recording. Just need to figure out why I lose volume and tone with the speaker block enabled.

I'm beginning to realize that this is opening up a whole new world that I didn't really realize existed, or understand. Certainly not a Helix issue as it's there no matter what you are or aren't running through, but it has opened my eyes a little to the intricacies of sound engineering. Great info - thanks.

Thanks @cruisinon2 - all makes perfect sense!

After reading your replies above, and thing about this further, take the Helix out of the equation for a minute and consider a guitar straight into a mic'd amp. Would it not be the same thing - different tone on stage than through the PA? How is that handled - does the sound guy (or girl) make the adjustments at the board? I can see taking out some treble, but what about the fuzziness/OD?

I'm a relative novice when it comes to recording guitar and amps. Up to this point I've been recording my guitar/amp with an SM57 & USB Interface direct to Garageband and am happy with the results. I've been messing around with recording the Helix and the tone is different compared to what I'm hearing out of my amp (DSL40C). It doesn't matter if I'm using my amp, or using a preamp in the Helix and going directly into the FX return, the recorded tone is always brighter and slightly fuzzier. I run the audio out from my mac into a Kenwood receiver and I have Bose speakers so it's not like I'm listening through the bullt-in computer speakers. Also, I don't have this problem when I record with the mic - so I'm pretty sure I can rule out the Mac and speakers. I'm less concerned about adjusting the settings on the Helix to get a good recorded tone as I would imagine I should be able to do that with some tweaking. I'm more concerned if I'm playing live using my amp onstage and also XLR to the FOH (If I'm mic'ing the amp, no worries). If I set my tones based on what I'm hearing from the amp, is it going to be bright and fuzzy through the PA? Or, if I adjust for the PA, am I going to have a more muted sound coming from the amp. I guess one solution is setup parallel paths - one for the amp and one for XLR - and put EQ's at the end to adjust each path separately. If I can I'd rather avoid that so that I'm not tweaking a bunch of patches/snapshots each time I play somewhere. I'm currently not playing out, however, I may have something in the works so I'd like to get all this ironed out before that starts. Is this common or is it something I'm doing, or not doing?

@brue58ski - EQ'ing white noise is an interesting idea - hmmmm. To your point though, I only used the meter to get my patches close to each other and then adjusted by ear. The patches I created were pretty close from the beginning, but some of the patches I downloaded were all over the place regarding volume. I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track and feel much more comfortable about this whole volume leveling thing. Prior to this I used the M13 (selling it now), which was stomp boxes only, so aside from adjusting the level on a few of the effects, I didn't have the volume leveling issue. Thanks to all for the info.

Valid point if once you set it up you don't make a lot of changes. Thinking about it further I guess once I have it setup I don't think I would constantly be adding/changing things so maybe not as bad as I initially thought. I'd just have to go in knowing that anytime I add a patch/preset I have to do it twice. I did the same thing. I ended up using an SPL meter app on my phone to at least get in the ballpark. Then I further adjusted based on what I was hearing. I just have to do it again at louder volumes next time :)

Thanks guys. Yeah, I’m going to start with the clean tones first, then work my way up through crunch to heavy. I’ll set a few clean and dirty when I can play loud at home, and then lower the main volume knob to see how they sound at normal home levels. If they still sound good relative to one another I’ll continue doing that. If not, then maybe I’ll copy my presets and have a set for loud and soft. Although that seems like a pain to maintain. We’ll see. Thanks again

I'm new to the Helix and came across this thread as I'm trying to get some volume consistency across my presets/snapshots as they vary widely from one to the other. Quite a lively discussion. Fortunately, I've only just begun creating and downloading presets so I want to learn good habits before I go too far. Putting aside meters, listening with your ears, etc. for a moment, and while I'm mostly a home player, I understand that "leveling" at home is only a starting point and adjustments need to be made from there for the various scenarios I may be in. From what I've read channel volume and Output Block adjustment seem to be the main adjustment points - got it! My question is, is there a best practice regarding where to set the main large volume knob when leveling volume? I've read people keeping it at 10:00, 2:00, all the way up, etc. but I don't know the Helix well enough yet to understand the implications of having it set at 10:00 vs all the way up (not enough headroom, introduce digital noise, etc.) My setup is 4CM into a Marshall DSL40C. Some patches use only effects and the Marshall clean and OD channels, and others bypass the Send/Return block so the signal goes straight into the FX Return. Please note that I have no intention of moving to a FRFR speaker so I'm looking for advice taking into consideration my current setup. Edited to add: I spent some time tonight messing around with leveling the volumes. I quickly realized this is not something you should do late at night at low volumes. With the volume knob at 9:00 or so I had to set my OD channel/master volumes pretty high (8-10). Problem is when I got to my clean patches I couldn't get them loud enough to keep up with the OD patches. When I get some time alone at home and can move some air I'll set the volume knob higher (1:00 or so to start) and set the clean patches first. Then re-adjust the OD patches to match. Probably better to have the master/channel volumes lower so I can dial-in some headroom later on if I need it.

I know this is an older thread, but I had a question about the cable you used. I have the DSL40C and just got the Helix LT. When I ordered the Helix I also ordered a TRS cable thinking that's what I'd need, however, no matter how I configured the Ext Amp control it would not work. I then tried a standard TS cable - which didn't work - and then I tried an Insert Cable (TRS on one end to two TS ends on the other (one Tip, one Ring) and that worked. The signal needs to go from the Ring on the Helix to the Tip on the DSL - which you can't do with a straight TRS or TS cable. I'm either going to open the TRS cable and swap the Tip & Ring on one end, or I may go with MIDI into my VooDoo Lab Control Switcher so I can control both the amp channel and reverb. I'm just wondering how you got the TRS cable to work?

Hello: Just ordered the Helix LT but won't have it until 7/8 when I get back from traveling so I figured I'd ask this now before it arrives. I have the Marshall DSL40C and it has a 2 button footswitch - one for changing the channel and the other to turn reverb on/off. Since the Helix uses a TRS cable (same as the Marshall Footswitch cable) can I program it to control both the channel and reverb? Edited to add: This is from the products page on this site for the LT: "Alternatively, this jack can be connected to your traditional guitar amp to switch its channels or turn its reverb on and off. Use a TRS cable for dual operation (1=tip, 2=ring)" The first part of the sentence states switch channels or turn reverb on/off, then the last part says use a TRS for dual operation. Does dual mean channel switching and reverb control?

Hi Arkieboy: That's exactly how I have the M13 configured with my DSL now (4CM) so I can put drive pedals up front and modulation/time based in the loop. I also connect the MIDI out of the M13 to a VooDoo Lab Control Switcher that converts the signal to a relay, and then from there to the Footswitch jack on my amp so I can change the channel and turn Reverb on/off. The problem with doing this 1) I can only change amp channels in Latch mode - I can't setup a preset in Stompbox mode to change the amp channel, and 2) there's a slight, but noticeable, delay when changing channels this way. I would also setup the Helix LT in 4CM so I can route the pedals accordingly, but then as Codamedia said, also add in the amp/cab models but bypass them when I'm using my amp. If not, then I would enable the amp/cab. Best of both worlds.

Perfect - that's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!

My main amp is a Marshall DSL40C and I also have a Vox Valvetronics that I keep strictly as a backup - which means it's collecting dust. I currently have the M13 and was thinking about upgrading from that to the HX Effects, but then started thinking about the Helix LT in that I could use that as my back-up instead of the Vox (and sell the Vox). My thought is using the Helix LT for effects only when I'm playing through my DSL, but if my DSL is in repair, use the LT as my amp and effects (backup). I've already compared the Helix and LT and I don't need the extra I/O that the Helix has, nor am I concerned about the chassis as I don't play out very often, so I would go with the LT. My question is can I setup my presets so all my effects are Path A, and the amps & cabs in Path B, so when I'm playing through my DSL I would only have Path A active, but if I need the amp/cab sims, then just activate Path B in parallel? This would negate the need for me to create a bunch of duplicate presets just to have the amp/cab option in one set and not the other. I typically don't use a lot of effects so I don't see myself needing to setup parallel paths for just the effects - unless there's something I'm missing by not doing this? Also, I'm more of an amp tone kind of guy so I'm not really interest in using the amp/cab sims unless I have to - which is why I bought the M13 and initially considered the HX Effects. Thanks

Actually, I do think it's a fair comparison to a true software product. While this is a hardware device, the heart of the M is all software. But, don't get me wrong - I'm not bashing Line6 or the M13. I have an M13 and really like it, and yes it does as advertised. My personal opinion, and that's all it is, is my opinion, is if Line 6 is going to continue to sell the M units it would nice to get an update after all these years. There's plenty of feedback on features and enhancements to work off of. I just think it's a little disingenuous on Line 6's part to profit from this an not offer something to their customer in return. Again, I'm a fan of Line 6 and even considering upgrading to the HX Effects so it's not like I won't buy their product anymore. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Mature platform is an understatement. I wonder if people realize when they buy them their getting 8 1/2 year old software? I work for a software development company. Our product is fully support for the first 5 years (product & security updates), and then security updates only years 5-10. After 10 years support ends. However, while we support the product for 10 years you can no longer buy the old version after a new version comes. What Line 6 is doing would be like us selling old versions of software after new ones come out, but no longer supporting the old version. I'm not completely faulting Line 6. If people keep buying them then sure, keep selling them. But they should still offer an occasional release. Just my 2 cents.

Was looking through my Sweetwater catalog and noticed Line6 is still selling the M13 - for $449 USD no less. Yet, the last firmware release was almost 8 1/2 years ago (1/26/11)! What's even better is you can get the HX Effects for just another $150. Why, Line6, are you still selling the M Series when you have stopped updates close to a decade ago? If it's still moves units for you great, then why not take care of those who have already bought one? There's plenty of enhancement ideas on this forum.

Hi Timhen I don't know if you have the manual so I uploaded it here. This shows how to setup the 4CM as well as using the tuner. You can set the tuner to mute or hear the guitar so maybe that's part of the problem. The other thing to check, and I'm saying this because I did this myself, is to make sure the volume is up on the guitar. I spent a few minutes one night checking all my cables only to realize I had the volume off on my guitar lol.