benifin

Yeah .... I wasnt exaggerating either about the POD 1. I had the original POD 1 which I later updated with the 2.2 ROM Chip you could buy. I cant remeber what it was called in the Original POD, but it had a "swell" / "auto swell" and from memory it had 1 control and it work brilliantly / perfectly ... excalty as it "should". Hopefully the L6 peeps with drag one out and just code that in to the Helix ... hint ... hint :) Ben

Hey L6 Are we going to have to wait for a FW update to fix the Vol knob issue and have an auto-swell that works [ ie: like an auto swell ] or is a hot-fix maybe in the works ? Honestly ..... kind of shocked / surprised that FW 2.20 shipped with the Vol knob bug because that didnt exist pre-FW 2.20 and a pre-announced and anticipated Auto-Swell that doest really work in any real useable way ... the auto-swell from my POD 1.0 worked / works perfectly so I assumed it would at least be that good ?!?! Ben

Hey. Curious about this as Im away from my gear for another week or so ..... but ..... quite a few different people here and at other places have said that they "hear" / "feel" that 2.20 has made the tones a bit better / nicer / realer [insert your own description] etc.... yet that seems to be not the case with yourself (?) I dont think anyone is saying that 2.20 is a sonic "game changer" relative to the previous fw ... as is often expressed by some users of another well know modeller .... but the broad consensus, at least from what I can see, is that it seems that some overall sonic "goodness" has occured over and above just the improved presets ...... Be interested to hear what people think / "hear" Ben

A quick audio demo https://soundcloud.com/ben-ifin/pad-off-vs-pad-on-with-55db-gain-block To illustrate my point this is a very bright Plexi dirty sound played with a Tele - just 1 x G Chord :) The first batch of 4 x " G " chord strums are Amp + Cab + Auto Z + Global Pad OFF - nothing else The second batch of 4 x " G " chord strums are Amp + Cab + Auto Z + Global Pad ON + 5.5 db Gain Block in the first Path - nothing else All Amp and Cab settings are identical - no other processing of any kind. The Problem ? They sound identical but they shouldnt :( If the Global Pad was in the analog front-end of the Helix and therefore pre-AD converters, the second batch of 4 G chord clips should sound a LOT less gainy and a LOT less distorted but they dont ?!?!? Remember your real tube amps .... almost all of them have a Hi-Input and a Lo-Input .... and when you plugged in to each they sounded WAY differnet .,.... ironically ... most real-tube Hi / Lo inputs have a roughly ~4db <-> ~6db differnece too ..... if the Helix Pad were in the front-analog end ....whcih is where I think we all assume it would be, it too would be soudning equally differnet jsut like a real tube amp Hi / Lo differnece ... but it doesnt I know its a very basic not-too-scientific test, but the non-difference / identical nature of the gain and distoriton of the patch is identical .... which to me tells me that the Pad is not where it should be for it to work like a true front-end analaog guitar pad. Can others advise / confirm .... and if Im wrong, please correct me :) Ben

Hey all Been doing some basic testing via recording / playback and from what I can tell. it seems that the "Guitar Pad" may in-fact not be pre-AD in the analog front-end ..... rather is seems [sounds like] it is in the AD stage .... ?! I did some quick tracking as follows:- -> too a known Plexi Patch -> set Global Pad to OFF -> recorded it -> then took the same patch and set the Global Pad to ON and at the same time put a 5.5db Gain Block as the first in the chain [the Pad seems to sit around a ~5.5db cut] -> recorded it -> they sound identical / indistinguishable .... this should definelty not be the case as if the Pad were in the analog front end, it would gain-the-amp very differnelty and sound very differnet. Can some others please test / confirm ??? Ben

Thanks very much guys :) => if its before the AD conversion ie: in the Analog front-end ... thats great because thats how it should be most natural / real => good to know my rudimentary measuring was pretty close too in terms of the pad db itself :) => as you say, given [assuming] its a proper front-end analog-pad, inserting a [digital] first block of -6 db or +6db aint going to work / sound quite right or do the same thing :( Probably stating the bleeding obvious here but kind of a bit surprising that ( i ) the Pad isnt at least preset-to-preset variable-and-saveable -or much more ideally- "snapshot-able" within a given preset and regardless of global-or-preset-or-snapshot ( ii ) that it at least cant be set in db gradients ie:- 0.0db ... -0.1db ... -0.2db ........ -5.8db ... -5.9db ... -6.0db Then again, maybe it will be in FW 2.20 ............ :) Ben

This is weird --- see Post #6 below added on 25 March 2017 Hi all Re: the " Guitar Pad " Global Setting:- 1 => is this a front-end analog pad [ which is therefore pre-AD conversion ] -or- or is it applied digitally post-front-end in the DA conversion ? 2 => by my rough measurements, it seems to be approx a ~ 5db -to- ~ 6db pad ..... is this roughly right ? 3 => assuming it is [say] a 6db pad ....... if I turn it off [Globally] so there is no Global Pad ...... but if I then want to Guitar Pad some patchs ... is inserting a -6 db Gain Cut as the first block in those patchs the same thing as the Global Pad being ON ? Thanks, Ben

Hi all All excellent points :) In addition to this - and my apologies as I probably should have posted this here in this thread rather than in a new discussion - but please see here:- http://line6.com/support/topic/26252-hi-lo-cab-and-ir-cuts-attached-audio-clip-proof-they-need-to-be-fixed/ The exisitng "non-standard slope" of the current FW 2.12 Hi / Lo Cut in the Cab / IR Block is i.m.h.o a major contributor to a lot of these issues ... however even a db-octave-correct [ 6db or 12db ] slope will not address the "amp in the room" issue ... that is a cross-platform [Helix/Axe/Kemper/AFire etc...] FRFR-related issue Ben

Hi all See the clip below - I tried to Embed it but cant seem to see how to do it :( ..... - the clip is structured as follows:- -> 1st Group of 8 very short chord clips is of a VERY BRIGHT AC30 -> 2nd Group of 8 very short chord clips is of a VERY BRIGHT Low Gain Litigator -> 3rd Group of 8 very short chord clips is of a VERY BRIGHT Hi Gain Plexi -> All 24 clips played with a Telecaster Bridge P/U https://soundcloud.com/ben-ifin/stock-helix-hi-lo-cut-vs-6db-hi-lo-cut Here's the important bit :) -> the same [ OH ] IR was used for all 24 clips -> in all 3 groups of the 8 clips, the 1st / 3rd / 5th / 7th clips are the Helix Stock Lo / Hi Cut set to 95hz / 4700hz -whereas- the 2nd / 4th / 6th / 8th clips the Lo / Hi Cut was pre-applied to the IR in Audacity using its Hi / Lo Pass Filter which has a setting for either a 6db per octave or a 12db per octave Lo / Hi Pass ..... I did it at 6db Cut per octave at 95hz / 4700hz and then in the Helix, the Lo / Hi Cuts were turned OFF Why is this important ? If you play each group of 8 clips from start to finish you will hear -> the Stock Helix Cuts have a much harsher / more nasally mid-range coming through [ also, the low end is not as tight ] -> when you start dropping the Hi Cut lower to say, 4400hz or 4200hz in order to get rid of this "nasally-mid-range" you then start to lose the good-mid-range-body of the tone that you need -> 6db per octave and 12db per octave Lo / Hi "filters" / "cuts" / "slopes" are the industry standard for speaker crossover design - its how your monitors, speakers etc.... are designed ... its what your hearing is used .... its why the Axe XL has these "slopes" for its Lo / Hi cuts ... its why the Kemper Studio EQ has its Hi / Lo Cut pre-defined to a 6db per octave slope etc....... -> this harshness / "nasally-mid-range" Hi Cut problem can be worked around by placing an EQ block after the Cab and re-compensating to (i) get rid of the excess nasallyness and re-introducing the mid-range body you lose from "over-cutting" but we shouldnt have to need to do this I really / sincerley / genuinley hope this is escalated up the line to be fixed :) ...becasue when you hear some people - here and on "other forums" - bag / critize the Helix saying its too harsh / to difficult to tame the hi-end / nasty-mids / has "squirrels" in it etc..... I can assure you [ and them ] that this is what is causing their [real] hearing concerns. Lastly - please dont get me wrong - I have an Axe XL, Kemper and a Helix .... and the Helix is as good an anything - I love using it ...... but this is a very real issue / problem which is significant but can very easily be addressed but updating the Cab / IR Lo / Hi Cuts to be selectable at either 6db per ocatve 12 db per oactve. All the best, Ben

FWIW ...... and Ive done a lot [ too much :) A/B'ing ] the Hi Cut [and Lo Cut] in the Helix Cab / IR block need "fine tuning" ....... the slopes are relatively-flat ..... in my Axe XL, you can chose between a 6db slope or a 12 db slope ....... %99.99 of the time for %99.99 of all IRs, the 6 db slope is perfect. Ive run [looped] the Axe into the Helix and the Helix in to the Axe and without exception, the same IR in the Helix needs a much "stronger" / "bigger" hi / lo cut ..... this is time consuming and it means I have to run a Post-IR EQ to re-compensate for the "slopes" ...... this seems like it would be an easy fix .. ? hopefully it is addressed in 2.20 or very soon thereafter. My workaround [ post IR / post Cab block eq ] isnt hard or anything, but it should not be necessary ..... how hard could it be to introduce a 6db or 12 db slope ? Ben

Wow ..... thanks ^^^^^ ... great to know :) :) :) As an aside ..... I know I sound like a broken record about this ...... but if you have ever owned / played a DC30 original or clone - or a really great AC30 - and you love "that" sound ...... do yourself a MASSIVE favor - start a new blank Preset - load up the stock Bluebell Cab and stock Silver Bell Cab and run them in a 50/50 split - load up the Matchstick 1 or 2 ..... and set the Bias to ~6.8 and the Bias X to around 2.2 - Put a "Minotaur" in-front of the Amp with these settings 0.2 Gain / 5.3 Tone / 6.3 Level [freaky because this is exactly what you would do with a "real" DC30] - Tweak and EQ to your hearts content and you will get anything from pristine cleans to thick-chimey cleans to crunchy crunchs to hard-crunch ... Regardless of platform / brand etc.... this my friends is as good as modelling gets. Enjoy ! :) Ben

Hey. Just few word of [hopeful] reassurace from someone who has run and Axe XL and a Kemper and CLR's for a while now ... and who recently also got a Helix ... not in order or importance, here goes. -> read the manual ... seriously ... read it -> given you will be wanting to know how it compares to your Axe .... load up the same IR's in each and use the same IR settings for both and monitor through the same system for both ... when you do this, you will be astonsihed at how similarly fantastic they sound -> based on my few days working with Axe XL FW7 [final] you will find that the Fractal models seem to have a lot more "gain" on tap so you may need to run the gains in the Helix amps a bit higher ... again, not a ctitisim, just an honest observation -> compared to the Helix, to me, the Axe FW7 Final -still- sounds more "polished" / "hi-fi" than the Helix .... Im not saying this is bad or good for you..... to me, the Helix is just more "there" .... much more "in your face" ..... much more real-dirty-nasty-tube-amp-vibe ...... again you may love or hate this I dont know ... to me, this is a big plus asby far the biggest battles I have had with my Axe / Kemper / CLR FRFR set up is getting rid of the polish / smoothness of the Axe and [very many] Kemper profiles to try and make them sound more-real -> the Drive pedals in the Helix are stellar .... to me .... way better than the Kemper, and quite honeslty, better than in the Axe too ..... the "Minitaur" [Klon] and "Teemah" [Timmy] and Green tube Screamer [808] not only sound like the real thing but they respond like the real thing -> you will need time for your ears to "get used" to the sound of the Helix if you are coming from Axe-land ... same applies for going to/from a Kemper etc.... give it time Heres the bit [insert modeller of choice here] "fanbois" rarely concede ........... there is no right answer here :) ..... what I can assure you though is this .... as with the Axe or Kemper ....... if you take your time and learn how to tweak the Helix ...... it will deliver sounds, tone, feel etc...... every bit as good as anything you will get from an Axe or Kemper ....... any of these "big three" can deliver equally fantastic tones, but each will sound just a bit different from each other .... this is unavoidable. Enjoy :) Ben

Hi timmyo Not trying to side-track this thread but I just posted the link below over at TGP a few hours ago:- https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23712369/ By all means go the IR "hunt" if you need / want / must ..... but honestly, not only is there no real need, but as the others have said, there is no "better" or "best" .... only what your ears prefer. Ben

This isnt my cup or tea -BUT- great tones and great playing and GREAT writing :) I dont know if you will think this is a compliment or not - which it most certainly is => Frank Zappa would love this song and your playing !!! Just. Great. Stuff. Ben

No biggie really. All my stuff these days is in E flat ..... so pre-settting the Tuner to 415.3 and therefore having it show " E / A / D etc.... " in-lieu of E flat etc..... is easier to follow when quickly looking at it and tuning live between songs / sections etc ..... rather than having to look for E flat etc... on the display. Like I said, just an old-man convenience thing. Ben

Hi all Just a quick Tuner question. I know 440 [ A ] is "standard" .... and I recall (?) the Helix Tuner has + / - Refernence Adjustment (?) If my memory is right:- => can the Helix Tuner be Reference Adjusted to 415.3 which is E flat ? Thanks, Ben

Got it in one. That is precisely the issue / problem with how the current 2.12 Lo / Hi Cut "slopes" are working. Hopefully this is "fixed" soon. Ben

Yep. WAH block when first going to a new preset with 2.12

Hi all Just want to chime in here again with some further real-world gig experiece re: the hi / lo cut "issue". Long winded Background .... sorry :( Had a show last night and got to use the other guitarists Helix as he was double-booked for another show elsewhere - was me and another of the "regulars" - all good. We did 3 x 45 "classic rock" ..... you know, all the ususal suspects :). Prior to the show - I loaded up the Helix presets I made when I had "his" Helix :) ..... no problems ... all good. For all my live work I run a CLR Active wedge behind me - and I use either my Axe XL or my Kemper - the Axe and Kemper use the same IR combo - 2 x 12 3 Sigma Bogner Zilla 3B and 5A in a 50/50 split summed to 0 db with a 95hz lo cut and a 4.2khz high cut ..... strongs cuts I know but it gives a "really real" guitar cab vibe :) By way of backgrounf - in the Axe I use a 6 db slope with the 95 / 4.2 cuts ...... with the Kemper I pre-mised the 2 cabs externaly and matched the hi / lo cuts by ear and recording [ Kemper doest call their Cab hi / lo cuts ... its just + / - db adjustments. Anyway .... tonally [ not gain-wise ] the Axe and Kemper presets and profiles all sit in the same nice "range" With the Helix last night, I ran the same to cabs, 50 / 50 split summed to 0 db set to 95 / 4.2k cut ... same as the same cabs in the Axe and Kemper ...... note guitar [ Tele ] is my regular across all rigs. Helix sounds were amazing live ..... genuinly great ... that was as I had expected .... the problem was that I had these lo / hi frequencies that had me dumbfounded ..... was like I had a low / high boost in the presets ... whcih I knew I didnt. 30 min break between sets !!!! End of set 1, took a 10 min break - grabbed my ATM headphones and wen to my rig. Plugged in .... even in my headphones it was these - I checked all my presets - all good. As a last effort I went to my IR slots .... damn they were set right too ..... 95 / 4.2k. About to go back on in 10m ..... why not I figured ... I randlomlny re-set all the Cab Lo / hi cuts to 120hz and 3k .... worst case scenaerio I thought .... Id rather less lo / hi end than more if they were my only 2 choices. Bingo ......... the 120 / 3k cut sound pretty much just like my Axe / KPA tonal ranges Got home ... did some further "testing" ....... this really was "bugging me". Result Same IR's..... same settings ..... 95 / 4.2 cut in Axe and KPA = what my ears know and are used to ..... Helix ended up needing on ~110 / ~3.2k cuts to sound "tonally" the same ..... however *** Conclusion From my so-far limited expereice and so-far basic test ... my ears are telling my that the Helix Cab Lo / Hi Cut " slopes' must be realtively quite flat .... like I said ... in the Axe I use a 6db per octave slope [ it also has a 12db per octave slope from memory ] and this 6db per octave slope is very easily duplicated in my Kemper. I can only assume that that the lo / hi cut slopes in the Helix are of a totally differnet "shape" / "structure". *** - in a practial tweaking sense, the real issue with flatter-slopes is mor noticeable in the hi end ie: even a relativley small change from say 3.2k hi cut to 3.4k hi cut makes a BIG difference to high end content re-introduced .... similar, but not as audibly immediate in the lo end too Anyway .... 2nd a 3rd sets sounded awesome - as good a sound as Ive gotten from any modeller ....... but would be really good if this "issue" could be addressed "up the line" ..... ie:- selectable [for example] 6db per octave and 12db per octave slopes for the lo / hi cab cuts would be ideal Thanks to all. Ben

Glad its not just me :) Compared to the same IR in my Axe or Kemper, when loaded in the Helix, the require more lo cut and more hi-cut. When using my Axe or Kemper with my CLR for live rock shows - CLR is behind me angled up at me like a real cab - my 3 Sigma Zilla Bogner 2 x 12 IR's need a 95 hz lo cut and a 5.5kz hi cut Same IR combo's in the Helix needed 110 hz lo and 3.8kz hi cut. My gues is that the lo cut and hi cut "slopes" on the Helix are tapped quite differently to the way they are tapered in the Axe and Kemper. All the Celestion IR's I bought and tried made my 3 Sigma IR's sound " dull " ...... even a 110 / 3.8k cut on the Celestions left them too bright for my use / ears. And as for the OH's - I know some love them but man are they wooly / dull compared to just about any other IR I have tried. Ben

Thanks. Ben

This Orban meter looks awesome. Quick question:- => which of its meters is the best one to use for matching preset levels ? Ben

Hey all FWIW ..... my Helix is still "on its way" :) ..... but I had one for a ~ 6 weeks to compare to my Axe and Kemper .... no secrets what I thought there ... :) .... but in my Axe and KPA I mainly run British "toned" amps ...... 2204, Plexi. AC30, DC30, Hiwatt etc.... In the last week or two when I was messing with the Helix, it was suggested to me to try the 58 Fender Bassman 5F6-A model. Now Ive NEVER been a fan of old Fenders ..... I always found them to sound very boxy and too-focused ... but this amp ..... serioulsy ..... it was a revelation ..... it gained-up and cranked-up just right and wait for it ... it actually "chimed" ....... go figure !!! I dont know if it sounds anything like the specific Fenders you are referring to, but its a freakin joy to play ...... not often an amp puts a smile on your face as soon as you hit the first chord :) Ben

Cool. Thanks. Not " my cup of tea " - I'm an " old-school-British-cranked-gain-and-cranked-mids " guy - but I suspect for many more modern players it will be very well received. Thanks again, Ben

Hey all In the upcoming 2.20 there is a Line 6 " Badonk " (?) ..... is this a Bass Amp or a Guitar Amp ? Also, any idea what actual-real-world-amp it may loosely be modelled on ? Ben