xmacvicar

Two days ago was in my local Long & McQuade store and I was testing studio monitors with Helix; i had the main guitar rep help me - who happens to be probably the most professional guitar player in my area who performs in a lot of bands and is The hired gun so to speak; he plays in some very significant musical groups in the area He heard me load up one of my patches as I was trying to dial it in and he literally cringed put his head down laughed and walked away. A lot of people still think it's just a lollipop little toy.

True, but Helix came out way before Native. Not arguing with you, just saying! You could cite the existence of all the routing options as proof it wasn't just meant to be a recording device - I get that. I just feel like L6 ( or any company doing this digital stuff ) has as their biggest hurdle, having people learn how to create great tones for their environment. I just mean that in the sheer number of posts that exist about this - people struggling with getting a grip on it. I think thats why this is their biggest challenge - not pushing out new amp models, etc. I feel like there was not alot of education about this - I get thats not really Line 6's responsibility, but I wish there were more resources about what makes a good polished guitar signal without having to read through 3 years of forum posts. But...I am figuring it out! Of course we are core users of the platform, we understand what it can do. I love the helix; as someone who grew up on traditional guitar amps and had every single combo possible between 1997 and 2017, I would say Helix has made me a 10x better guitar player than I ever was previously - I am more in tune with what makes a better guitar signal and I'm thinking about things like EQ and high/low cuts, and fitting into mixes and shaping my tone in a way I never even knew existed before. Before it was "PLUG INTO THIS AMP, CRANK IT, OMG THE TONES MAN". However, to add to this - I do feel like amazing tone is at the tip of my tongue but I often have a hard time getting it out. I think thats because I haven't used Helix in a true permanent application (ie - a real band). Going between Studio Monitors and FRFR speakers, and headphones, the tones are elusive because they are just different in every environment; it kind of makes it hard to 'nail down'. But I know they are in there....

Recently I went through a bit of a 'what should I play helix' through issue where I was torn up on switching to Studio Monitors vs. my L6 L3Ms, etc.....Long story short, I am keeping my L3Ms but I did get to experiment with some decent studio monitors. I have been playing electric since '96 and have been in bands here and there over the years - some gigging experience with a few bands (some on guitar, some on drums) but right now I am not actively playing with a band nor have I ever integrated a digital modeller into a live band playing situation. When I tested some recording and using the studio monitors for audio referencing, it kind of became crystal clear; the stock presets which sound like lollipop through my L3M's at 'gig volume' fit almost perfectly in a recording mix with almost no adjustments! The Brit 2204 sounded like the real deal, not the swarm of usual bees, etc. I had this eureka moment - THIS IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED FOR. Honestly, I see this more so now as this brilliant little device whose main attraction and purpose is to fit into a recording mix, with ease, at any time and with little adjustment. I do also believe that none of this easily translates into a 'replacement for a traditional guitar amp' situation. Just hear me out..... Don't get me wrong. I love the Helix. I am not dogging on it. But I think there are inherent challenges considering this as a device used to 'replace' a traditional amp. This thought is supported by the SHEER number of forum posts here, and on gearpage, which are constantly about 'how to level presets' or 'how do I make it sound like a real amp' or 'how do you get this thing to not sound buzzy" or "how can I get it to sound and feel like an amp in the room or (insert any other wealth of similar forum posts). I think at its heart, it is main purpose is NOT for this scenario and thats why we see alot of hesitation, or confusion about how it is adopted as a more 'traditional' rig (instead of a recording interface). To me, Line 6's greatest challenge in their product offering here is not providing more amps, or more fx or whatever, but educating guitarists on where this fits into their life. By design, I see it excel as a recording device. Making those presets sounds good, or real, or proper, at volume (and as the inevitable replacement of traditional guitar amps over time) is the greatest challenge. Dont' flame me. haha.

So I rented a 6.5 inch monitor pair. I tested all day. In conclusion I am going to keep my l3m speakers and just adjust my patches for the lowest volume I can get away with. I can definitely see a great place for having studio monitors but they're just not for me right now given the speakers I already have.

Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia are playing mostly high-gain amps in the Helix with the odd Low gain Marshall here and there

Thanks for that tip. My IR cuts are aggressive. 4k on the highs usually.

Ya I think given this...going down to studio monitors isn't really the answer then. I should just make do with what I have and try to EQ and fix things at low volumes.

This is my current setup - so this is where I have the L3Ms - on pole stands pointed at my ears. https://imgur.com/a/1ogdVyM

What are the tangible sound/tone differences of these 2 scenarios: 1. Running the stereo L3Ms at very low volumes ( to prevent ear fatigue and loudness ) 2. Running a stereo pair of studio monitors such as Yamaha HS7's at a decent volume? Will the studio monitors produce a better sound than the L3Ms turned down?

Totally - thats why im posting this to basically just shift directions and get a better sound at a lower volume. I play a lot of metal/heavy rock stuff and there is just a certain element of playing loud that I gotta get out of my head

Ya the existence of the PC+ is really throwing me for a loop - I keep going back to "money on a pair of Yamaha HS7's" could buy a powercab...but I can see myself just cranking that too loud as well ha

Ha...yeah.... well, when I got my Helix, I found a set of L3Ms on Kijiji (local used website here in Canada) for the craziest price so I just jumped on them because 'frfr' - didn't really know much about it at the time and they seemed like a premium option for a FRFR speaker at a great price....so it might be overkill for my basement setup.

Ya, makes sense. I think I want to buy something that gives me the most options - for example, if I bought a powercab, it would translate into a live band scenario, whereas the studio monitors never will. Mind you, I don't play in a band right now - but I do want to buy something that will work for both 'at home' and out live/in a band situation if it comes to be. I mean really, at the end of the day, my L3M's could be that exact thing - but I really just can't play them at low volumes as the sound is pretty rubbish and makes me 'regret going digital' at times. I know thats just a fact of playing this stuff at low volumes...so ultimately, I don't want to cause hearing damage and if I going with a nice set of studio monitors will give me a great sound at a lower volume I will seriously consider them.

Ok thanks. Given this...I was eyeing a pair of Yamaha 8 inch studio monitors (https://www.long-mcquade.com/20981/Pro-Audio---Recording/Studio-Monitors/Yamaha/8-inch-Powered-Studio-Reference-Monitor.htm) a pair of these is almost on par with the power cab....which may be more practical of a purchase?

Cool I will look into smaller ones. Why would the L3ms be any different, or need to be loud to sound good? I ask out of naïveté!

One thing I noticed after switching to digital and using FRFR's (L3m stereo pair) is that to get a nice full guitar tone, I have to crank the helix and as a result, I get alot of ear fatigue and pain. Anyone else notice this? Yes, I could play at lower volumes, but to be honest, I find it just doesn't sound great at low volumes and the tone is 'uninspiring'. I always want to get it louder to get a more full bodied tone.

I just looked at Mono cases - holy crap they are expensive for a padded bag. I assume the quality is beyond top notch?

I don't think that's correct? It just controls the preset volume when recording or outputting

I was torn by this as well but I would much rather just turn my Helix volume knob then have to reach back on two stereo monitors to make adjustments

thanks so much for your reply I'm learning so much about all of this which is not even related to the tones and stuff! more so about his practical application with signal levels. however I don't understand this comment can you elaborate? I am just measuring everything to be -12 DB on a loud strum I was curious about how clean tones factor into this....

The intention here would be that I send the full signal to the front of house that is not affected by the big volume knob which is the same as the USB signal as it is also not affected by the large volume knob so Im thinking it is an effective way to measure the volume level consistently

Ok so -12 DB is a good standard to be at for patches and headroom!

In almost every single one of my presets when I measure their levels on my DAW (Logic Pro X) I can barely reach -12 DB with my channel volumes in avg around channel volume 8.0 Based on this should I assume that my Helix is fine at this level or should I be altering the output level of my patches to get it at a higher volume like -6db?

There is no such setting. There is an option to set the 1/4 OUT to Instrument, but nothing with input.

I think in this video Alex is just recording straight to USB? that's how I'm comparing. Recording same patch in USB isn't as great sounding as his.