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Tone question about the Variax HD Models


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I posted this on the Variax Standard forum, but since it is supposed to be the same electronics, I wanted to see if any JTV owners have experienced anything similar.


 


Hey everyone,


 


I just got a Variax Standard (VS) and wanted to ask everyone a question regarding the tone I am hearing on most of the models to see if you are hearing it as well on your models.  I bought this "blemished" and it is cosmetically perfect from my observation. I updated the FW to 2.21 when I first got it because the models did not sound like the model selector indicated.


 


When I plug straight into my DT50 set to the factory default topology I, (I chose that for the clean Fender tone) most of the models sound like they have been mixed with a banjo or Dobro model. It is most prominent at the beginning of the note. It is a plucky sort of sound. I don't really notice it with the 89 bank I just installed. When I let a chord ring, it sounds a little like the sitar model is mixed in, especially with models in the middle position of the selector switch. I don't really hear it on the Jazzbox models but the Semi and R-Billy are the most prominent.


 


When I VDI into the HD500X which is L6 Linked to a DT25, it sounds much better, but I can still hear the remnants of this artifact. Mostly the sitar effect when letting a chord ring out for a few seconds and the banjo effect on the Semi and R-Billy models. 


 


If I VDI into the HD500X and 1/4 inch out to an Alto 112, they all sound much better still (except the Semi and R-Billy models).


 


So I am wondering if this is a problem with just my VS, or if others have noticed a similar thing going on.


 


I guess the next step is loading up some of the VGuitarForums banks and see if they do the same thing.


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Maybe try reflashing?

 

I will try reflashing again. It's easy enough to give it a try. I'm guessing using my 500X should be just as good as the interface cable that came with the Variax.

 

Sounds very strange.  It should not do that at all.  How does it sound with mags only?

 

Just the mags sound fine. No "bleeding" of the models. 

 

At least I know that this is not normal.

 

Thanks guys.

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I think if the guitar makes any tonality that is different than it was intended, it should fall out of the whole "tone is subjective" category and be a legitimate problem.

If it doesn't sound like intended or advertised, it's not a subjective tone issue, but a software/hardware problem, and they need to accept that.

 

Try reflashing as said. If you still have issues, try swapping your guitar for another Variax.

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Maybe try reflashing?

 

Rocco,

 

I would have given anyone 3 to 1 odds that re-flashing would not have made a difference. That being said, I must admit that it made a huge difference. All of the models, except R-Billy Position 2, Chime Position 5 and Semi Position 2, no longer demonstrate the problem. Those three that do only have a subtle remnant of the plucky sound when plugged straight into the DT50. I will tweak those in Workbench or reflash later after I back up the models as a bundle.

 

I don't really understand why this worked, but I'm glad it did.

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I think if the guitar makes any tonality that is different than it was intended, it should fall out of the whole "tone is subjective" category and be a legitimate problem.

If it doesn't sound like intended or advertised, it's not a subjective tone issue, but a software/hardware problem, and they need to accept that.

 

Try reflashing as said. If you still have issues, try swapping your guitar for another Variax.

 

I agree. I am a little concerned that performing the same process (re-flashing) resulted in a different outcome. See post #6.

 

I will also say that the tones I am able to get from the models are not the same as I hear on the advertised clips from the Line6 website. But I understand there are several other factors involved: 

 

I can't play as well as Sean. (I don't suck, but seriously, he plays like a hot knife through butter... a very clean knife at that) I'm assuming he recorded them.

The models may have been tweaked from their stock settings.

I'm not using the same POD HD patches. (Those clips might be using the Helix or any number of other gear. It does not say on the webpage.)

 

I will have to download a few of his patches from Customtone. I expect it will make a dramatic difference.

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While I'm glad it sort of worked, it sounds like you're still having problems. The sounds you should be getting should be spot on. The Lester should sound like a LP, the T-Model like a Tele, and so on. Trust your ears. If something doesn't sound right, its the guitar.

 

I would reflash again, from a different computer if possible. I don't know the technical reasons why a different computer would help, but I do know that my work laptop does not get along with my Line 6 gear as well as my personal laptop.

 

Good luck.

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I had issues with model's not sounding quite as advertised - not as pronounced as you reported but just a bit off - when I first upgraded my JTV59 to fw 2.21, and oddly enough multiple re-flashes did improve things.  It makes no sense to me at all - but somehow a reflash can "fix" things.    Glad that it fixed most of your issues!

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This reflashing makes absolutely no sense to me at all but since it seems to work sometimes there must be something to it.  There is absolutely no excuse for this kind of behavior though.  Flashing should either work or not and the process should know the results.  It sounds like some of the code gets corrupted or not updated when flashing goes bad without the process knowing it.  Line6 should have done a better design.  I have worked with products that get field FW updates all the time and I have never seen this kind of problem.  I have never seen a reasonable explanation of this either.  It's always hand waving and the first thing they say to try is Reflash it!  BS!

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I'm with you Charlie_Watt .... but oddly enough re-flashing has improved or fixed things for me on a few occasions now  ..... there must be a reason for it like you say, such as corrupt code during transmission or writing, but there is no excuse for it happening and not being detected during the re-flash process . .... clearly when a line6 re-flash says it has been successful it's not always telling the truth, but you have no way of knowing unless you experience odd behaviour with your device.      :(      

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So I tried re-flashing from a different computer. The first re-flash was on an iMac that I bought used, so it is a couple years old. I don't know if that matters.

 

Today I re-flashed from an HP EliteBook laptop running Windows 7 Enterprise Service Pack 1. It is just over a year old.

 

The result is that the models sound better than the last re-flash on my iMac and none of the models have any remnant of the original problem.

 

They still don't sound like the demo clips on the Line6 website, but we're getting closer. I have to try some of Sean's POD patches. The newest ones are from about 2 1/2 years ago so they will probably need some tweaking using a 2.21 FW Variax on a 500X, but it should be a good starting point.

 

I agree with Charlie_Watt in that there is some kind of performance/reliability problem in the re-flashing process. 

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-MIDI time outs, usually accompanied by a red blinking LED, typically a

transmission error of some kind.

 

-When you re-Flash, if the prompt asks if you want to save patches, click "No",

because you don't want to save a set of patches with errors, if there are any. 

 

-Trying to use an effects floor product as an update interface device, instead

of the JTV Interface can cause connecting and handshake problems. Use the

JTV interface.

 

-General internet communications glitches that can occur.

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-MIDI time outs, usually accompanied by a red blinking LED, typically a

transmission error of some kind.

 

-When you re-Flash, if the prompt asks if you want to save patches, click "No",

because you don't want to save a set of patches with errors, if there are any. 

 

-Trying to use an effects floor product as an update interface device, instead

of the JTV Interface can cause connecting and handshake problems. Use the

JTV interface.

 

-General internet communications glitches that can occur.

 

psarkissan,

 

That is something I was not aware of until now. The "Variax Standard Pilot’s Guide" does not mention this. I appreciate your comment because I have been using my HD500X as the interface. I am going to re-flash again with the "JTV interface" today and see how that goes. I need to know that it works properly; since I just purchased the gear.

 

There are many talented members on this forum and I appreciate their contributions. I "pay it forward" when I can. That being said, it means a lot to me that Line6 staff interject their knowledge into the mix. 

 

Thanks!  :)

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Well, it appears I now know why this was on the "blemished" list. 

 

The VDI Interface does not communicate with the Variax Standard. I get a green flashing light on the USB side and a red flashing light on the Variax side. I tried this on my iMac and HP laptop.

 

 

 

I suppose I will have to call the vendor and/or create a service ticket for this problem.

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Here's what you do,...

 

plug into the interface,

make sure there's a full charged battery in the guitar, 

take a 1/4" adapter from a headphone and plug it in the TRS 1/4", 

this engages the battery.

 

The relays should click and both LED's should be green. Re-Flash the guitar.

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Well, it appears I now know why this was on the "blemished" list.

 

The VDI Interface does not communicate with the Variax...

That ain't it...whatever the blemish is, it's some minor cosmetic flaw somewhere. I couldn't find the "blemish" on my JTV either. Anyway, as was already said, you just need to have a 1/4" cable plugged in. That's the "on switch" for the guitar when not connected to a power source through the VDI.

 

That said, you're probably better off connecting through the POD anyway. Those USB dongles are iffy at best. I've found the connection through the POD to be far more reliable. I had way too many drop-outs and failed flashes using that goofy looking thing.

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Well, I kinda feel like a dope for not plugging in the 1/4 inch jack.

 

I was able to re-flash with the USB VDI Interface. In fact, I re-flashed once on the laptop and twice on the iMac. The positive thing is that the results were consistent each time. The negative thing (and I'm a little reluctant to say it cause you're all going to think I'm crazy) is I'm hearing a bit of that banjo-ish plucky sound on some models when I plug straight into topology I on my DT50. It is mild, but that is what I hear. It may be my pick attack / pick angle / technique. I don't know. I don't hear it on the mags, but I don't hear it on Spank either. 

 

It sounds great through the Alto 112. I thought an FRFR speaker would accentuate the plucky sound, but it does not. I think the expression of more frequencies makes the plucky frequency less apparent. 

 

I made a custom tuning (awesome feature for on the fly alternate tuning) for Rain Song (D G C G C D) and I used Sean's "AccString SH.h5e" from Customtone and added a little Dimension (mode 1) with Variax Acoustic 1 and it sounds pretty good. 

 

Part of my wants to send it back and get a different Standard, but I have a feeling I'm going to hear the same thing on the next one. (and I got this one for $625)

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I'm just going to say there are plenty of good sounding models on this Variax Standard. I've decided two or three meh models are not worth giving up all the really cool stuff that can be done with this rig. I have been plugging away at different songs and getting really good results. Nothing is perfect as we all know, but this is a great value for the money. 

 

An incredible amount of versatility using the Variax, the HD500X, one or two DTs via L6 Link and one or two Also 112s via unbalanced outs. 

 

Thank you to everyone who chimed in. I voted everyone up for their posts.

 

Cheers!

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