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robbieb61

Turning My Combo Into A Head

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Okay...I got tired of lugging around the combo amp after a few years. DT50 112 is just too damn heavy in and of itself.

And all along I have had a Bogner 4x12 cab loaded with Greenbacks in a "live in" case with wheels just collecting dust for the past few years.

So...I couldn't quite get the sound I wanted with the combo. No matter which virtual cab I chose it never really captures that "thump" of a real cab. Especially noticed it when I started playing in the new band I'm in and the other guitarist is using a 5150 head through a Marshall cab.

All of a sudden my combo amp sounded like...a combo amp.

I got out the Bogner 4x12 and unplugged the speaker in the combo and plugged just the Bogner cab in at 16 ohms.
Sounded great, but still not quite right.

So I went in to all my patches and selected "no cab" for them and BOOM! There it was! "That" sound that I was missing.

But now I had TWO heavy pieces of gear to cart around.

So I took the chassis out of the combo amp and I've been dragging it with me out in all it's naked glory.
I went to http://mathercab.com/ and sent in the dimensions of the chassis. He sent me back a diagram to fill out with a few more measurements.

The head cabinet for the chassis is going to be completed by tomorrow and shipped out so hopefully I'll have it next week.

I'll post up some pics of it when I get it and have the chassis installed in case anyone else wants to turn their combo into a head.

Plus, you can always take the chassis back out of the head cab and put it back in the combo cab in the future. :)

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The head cabinet for the chassis is going to be completed by tomorrow and shipped out so hopefully I'll have it next week.

 

I'll post up some pics of it when I get it and have the chassis installed in case anyone else wants to turn their combo into a head.

 

Plus, you can always take the chassis back out of the head cab and put it back in the combo cab in the future. :)

 

Cool, I can't wait to see it. I hear ya on the "no cab" setting!

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They got a little behind and didn't finish it until today. So I'm hoping to get it by the end of this week (hopefully).
Peter Mather sent me these pics today of the finished product:

 

post-1385241-0-83708200-1439327721_thumb.jpg

 

post-1385241-0-96221100-1439327749_thumb.jpg

 

That's http://mathercab.com for anyone that wants to do this as well.

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They got a little behind and didn't finish it until today. So I'm hoping to get it by the end of this week (hopefully).

Peter Mather sent me these pics today of the finished product:

 

attachicon.gifLINE 6 HEAD CONV FRONT.JPG

 

attachicon.gifLINE 6 HEAD CONV REAR.JPG

 

That's http://mathercab.com for anyone that wants to do this as well.

 

I like the look. Thanks for sharing the photos.

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I will post up "after" pics after I get it and install the chassis into it.

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I will post up "after" pics after I get it and install the chassis into it.

 

I love the tweed look!  

 

I've contemplated doing this to my DT50-112 as well, not only for the weight but also because 2+ speakers are better than 1!!!!  For a time I had the chassis out and sitting upside down on my Bandmaster cab, which has my G12H30 and a Greenback. I planned on buying or fabbing a cab for the head.  I was even getting used to working the controls upside-down (mostly using L6 link anyway) when I stumbled on the deal of the century on my DT25 head.  So the DT50 chassis went back into the combo, but only for now.  I've also got a DT25 speaker due to me from MF that I locked in at half price, and when that arrives I'll have all kinds of rig choices.  What I'll probably wind up doing is buying another Greenback for the 2x12 and using the DT50-112 with the external speaker.  I'll at least try that, anyway, but I still think seriously about converting it to a head like you did.

 

Thanks for sharing!

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Looks like it will be arriving here on Tuesday according to Fedex tracking.
Once I get it I'll take pics of it with the chassis installed for you to see. ​

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As promised, here are pics of the DT50112 chassis in the head case.

 

Looks Great Robbie! Thanks for sharing Man.

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As promised, here are pics of the DT50112 chassis in the head case.

 

Wow!  He really did a Class A job for you on it!  That couldn'ta been cheap...

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Very nice looking cabinet. I had to do a double take when I first saw it because I'm so used to the controls on my DT50HD being on the bottom.

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I have to say that you have truly inspired me. I have 3 of these DT50s: A head unit (needs the infamous power transformer repair and then being sold) a 112 and a 212.

I grabbed the 112 and 212 because I found them pretty cheap @ 650 and 750 and I didn't need to worry about buying cabs. I have a really crappy fender 4x12 that is going with the dt50 head.

 

I think I am going to build a case for the heads in these amps and a cabinet for the speakers... I'll probably keep only the g12h-90s and store or ditch the vintage 30. (I only plan to mic two speakers so no sense in having 3).

 

Probably put each of the g12h-90s in their own cabs and maybe possibly one case to house both chassis... or two... not sure.

 

But thank you very much!!

 

Any thoughts on this? I will be asking a friend who did a really nice job building his PA speakers (I mean they are REALLY sharp!)

 

Any thoughts on cabinet? Closed, ported, open, etc.... both in one, each in their own (I'll be running some patches stereo)

 

Really thank you, I have no idea why this never dawned on me!

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 I'll tell you something else I've been thinking about.
I've read a lot of posts about full range cabs for running the HD500 through and which ones people are looking at for possible use with the forthcoming Helix.
 
And it got me to thinking...Right now I'm using the HD500 (soon to be replaced with the Helix) into the DT50 and into a Bogner 4x12 loaded with Greenbacks.
 
And it sounds great. I don't use the full amp models...just the preamp models and I don't use the cab sims in the HD500.  So I'm getting a great sound from the tubes and the Bogner cab.
 
But after reading about some of the most recommended full range cabs, I found that they are using Eminence full range speakers (the kind with the little built in mid range and tweeter like old car speakers back in the day)
 
So what IF...I come out of the HD500 into the DT50, but I use the full amp model with the cab model and load up a 4X12 guitar cab with the same Eminence speakers that are being used by the best full range cabs?
 
I think that would sound SWEET. You would get the full range sound WITH the tube coloration of the DT50 power amp section.

​

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its not quite that simple...  they actually use a coax driver with a mounted hf driver.  Problem is you will also have to wire up a suitable crossover to feed both the woofer/mids and the hf drivers.  Of course to get any kind of FRFR action you would also have to properly design the cabs as well.  Your 4X12 cab won't do the trick.  By the time you price it all out and put it together its probably not worth it.  Check the links below for speaker parts and prices.

 

http://www.parts-express.com/eminence-beta-12cx-12-coaxial-driver--290-504

http://www.parts-express.com/eminence-asd1001-1-hf-titanium-horn-driver-1-3-8-18-tpi--290-525

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-xo2w-2k-2-way-speaker-crossover-2000-hz--260-140

 

You may be better off with a decent pair of passive PA speakers using full amp models with your DT tube power section as long as you match up the impedance.  If you want to spend some dough,check out AccuGroove cabs, they have a great FRFR line.

 

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 I have to say that the sound that guy is getting with that Ax and FRFR cab doesn't sound anywhere near as good as what I'm getting with my dt50 hd500 and Bogner 4x12 cab.
 
It sounds pretty cold to my ears. And not really any authentic "thump" in the bottom end that a real guitar cab brings.  Maybe I'll just keep doing what I'm doing if that's the best that an FRFR setup brings.
Don't get me wrong, it sounds good. But nothing like a real head through a cab.
And I'm getting a real head through a cab sound right now running the hd 500 with no cab model into the dt50 and into the 4x12.
 
Oh well, it was just an idea. :)

​

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 I have to say that the sound that guy is getting with that Ax and FRFR cab doesn't sound anywhere near as good as what I'm getting with my dt50 hd500 and Bogner 4x12 cab.
 
It sounds pretty cold to my ears. And not really any authentic "thump" in the bottom end that a real guitar cab brings.  Maybe I'll just keep doing what I'm doing if that's the best that an FRFR setup brings.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds good. But nothing like a real head through a cab.

And I'm getting a real head through a cab sound right now running the hd 500 with no cab model into the dt50 and into the 4x12.

 
Oh well, it was just an idea. :)

​

 

 

I think it would suck and I don't think you'd spend much time with it, but who knows?  I've spent a lot of time with my HD500, full amp sims, and FRFR, but quite never got there--although I think it's fabulous for recording--just not quite good enough for my ears live.  Now I'm loving my tone with my DTs using the pre's!  And I love the addition of a Greenback to the OEM speaker!

 

The setup you describe would color the tone rather than being FRFR because the DT will color the colored tone coming out of your HD.  This gets much more muddy than you'd think.  I say this after trying my HD thru my Fender Dual Showman Reverb, which is essentially a Twin but in head form, not a combo.  It's cleaner than any DT model, IMO.  The eminence speakers may be a bit less of a tone colorer than my cab, though, and our ears likely differ, so it's totally worth a shot if you can afford to be proven wrong on your hunch.  You also have the option of bypassing the DT's preamp and going into the DT via the FX loop, which might be more to your liking!

 

As for Cab sims, I'm now using them whereas when I first got my first DT I did not.  Both are valid setup options because with so many tweaking options you basically get there either way.  I'm actually quite surprised that cab sims work with Celestions, but they do.

 

BTW, my image now shows my dream GF--If I can just somehow track her down!

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I have to say that you have truly inspired me. I have 3 of these DT50s: A head unit (needs the infamous power transformer repair and then being sold) a 112 and a 212.

I grabbed the 112 and 212 because I found them pretty cheap @ 650 and 750 and I didn't need to worry about buying cabs. I have a really crappy fender 4x12 that is going with the dt50 head.

 

I think I am going to build a case for the heads in these amps and a cabinet for the speakers... I'll probably keep only the g12h-90s and store or ditch the vintage 30. (I only plan to mic two speakers so no sense in having 3).

 

Probably put each of the g12h-90s in their own cabs and maybe possibly one case to house both chassis... or two... not sure.

 

But thank you very much!!

 

Any thoughts on this? I will be asking a friend who did a really nice job building his PA speakers (I mean they are REALLY sharp!)

 

Any thoughts on cabinet? Closed, ported, open, etc.... both in one, each in their own (I'll be running some patches stereo)

 

Really thank you, I have no idea why this never dawned on me!

 

I haven't had a chance yet to hear two G12H90's together, but will in about 2 weeks if MF can stick to its expected delivery schedule (which is actually up to Line 6--Please make us some more DT25 cabs, folks!!!!)  

 

I almost bought a V30, but after careful listening at the Marshall site I decided that the Greenback had just a bit more of what I was looking for in my tone--and man, that was $110 bucks well spent!!!!  From what little I know, though, I think there's much to be said about not using 2 of the same cones.  I think it just gives a bit more variety and texture, which to the ears translates into fullness.  But with so many variables, as always, tone is in the ear of the beholder.

 

I used to hear so much praise about V30's, and they sell so many, that I just assumed this was the speaker of choice.  But lately I've been hearing from folks who don't like them.  I'm curious--is it the "icepick" narrow cone blast thing that has you thinking you'd not use yours?

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Yeah, it was just a crazy idea I had.

I looked around at the FRFR cabs. And they are plenty expensive. And I'll still bet they won't sound anywhere near as good as the HD500 (using pre's only and no cab) + DT 50 + Bogner 4x12 Greenback loaded.

But having said that...I didn't even think about my Roland VGA-7 amp I have sitting around.

It has a full range 2x12 with horns, and the cab rear ported . So if I really wanted to go FRFR I could simply bring in stereo outputs into the stereo power amp section of the VGA-7 and I'm already there. It's cabinet was made from the beginning with nothing but amp modeling in mind. :)​​​

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I haven't had a chance yet to hear two G12H90's together, but will in about 2 weeks if MF can stick to its expected delivery schedule (which is actually up to Line 6--Please make us some more DT25 cabs, folks!!!!)  

 

I almost bought a V30, but after careful listening at the Marshall site I decided that the Greenback had just a bit more of what I was looking for in my tone--and man, that was $110 bucks well spent!!!!  From what little I know, though, I think there's much to be said about not using 2 of the same cones.  I think it just gives a bit more variety and texture, which to the ears translates into fullness.  But with so many variables, as always, tone is in the ear of the beholder.

 

I used to hear so much praise about V30's, and they sell so many, that I just assumed this was the speaker of choice.  But lately I've been hearing from folks who don't like them.  I'm curious--is it the "icepick" narrow cone blast thing that has you thinking you'd not use yours?

The only reason that I wouldn't be using the V30 is just a consistency thing.  The DT50 112 came with a stock G12H-90s and the 212 came with the same plus the V30. So at this point I have 3 speakers. I would only be micing two of them run in stereo and would like consistency across left and right PA speakers. The only reason I would ever run more than one speaker is for stereo purposes any ways. We want the audience to hear what coming from the PA system and keep the stage noise to a minimum when ever possible, and we have a fairly large PA that can handle just about anything we throw at it; we don't crank it but it doesn't need to work very hard and results in a very clean mix. You probably know from experience it makes things sound much tighter and neater if you can keep stage noise clean. Heck the only reason we don't run direct from the HD500 is because well: Tube tone mic'd vs direct from pedal.... Tube tone wins every time.

 

Now if we could have some tube power amps in our PA system   :P

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The only reason that I wouldn't be using the V30 is just a consistency thing.  The DT50 112 came with a stock G12H-90s and the 212 came with the same plus the V30. So at this point I have 3 speakers. I would only be micing two of them run in stereo and would like consistency across left and right PA speakers. The only reason I would ever run more than one speaker is for stereo purposes any ways. We want the audience to hear what coming from the PA system and keep the stage noise to a minimum when ever possible, and we have a fairly large PA that can handle just about anything we throw at it; we don't crank it but it doesn't need to work very hard and results in a very clean mix. You probably know from experience it makes things sound much tighter and neater if you can keep stage noise clean. Heck the only reason we don't run direct from the HD500 is because well: Tube tone mic'd vs direct from pedal.... Tube tone wins every time.

 

Now if we could have some tube power amps in our PA system   :P

 

that makes sense!  if your mics are on center, then you can't put 2 mics on the same cone.  and the g12h90 is basically a v30 tweaked for modeling amps.

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I have also used FRFR HD500 live a lot. I like it but still don't love it and know now I never will "love" it.

 

Played an outdoor show last eve with my M13/Fender BDRI with 6v6 tubes and a Texas Heat speaker.

 

It sounded so good I was disappointed when the 2 hours was over.

 

I have realized that I do not like my guitars interaction with the horns/tweeters in these FRFR cabs.

 

Not the FOH speakers. The ones I am running my HD500 into that provide some of the "magic" interaction we all are looking for from the guitar and the amp.

 

That is why you all love your DT amps so much.

 

Great amps! Enjoy them!

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I have also used FRFR HD500 live a lot. I like it but still don't love it and know now I never will "love" it.

 

Played an outdoor show last eve with my M13/Fender BDRI with 6v6 tubes and a Texas Heat speaker.

 

It sounded so good I was disappointed when the 2 hours was over.

 

I have realized that I do not like my guitars interaction with the horns/tweeters in these FRFR cabs.

 

Not the FOH speakers. The ones I am running my HD500 into that provide some of the "magic" interaction we all are looking for from the guitar and the amp.

 

That is why you all love your DT amps so much.

 

Great amps! Enjoy them!

 

Before I acquired my DT25 or DT50 I was going HD500 into a stereo that used Bose 901 series II speakers.  Each speaker cab employs 9 cones of the same size, no tweeters or woofers, under the theory that each speaker will vibrate at a different frequency.  But another piece of gear, an "active" equalizer, is required to make them sound decent and get some bass.  This was and is a killer FRFR rig for the HD POD!!!!  I eventually decided that it would look too weird at an audition (with too many pieces to haul), so I got into DTs, which help my tone even further.

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Hello .. im intrusted in this conversion ! could you please send me the shematics si that i can turn my heavy DT50 into an amazing head like yours

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Line 6 does not support any modifications to it's products. If you modify it and it fails, then I can't fix it.

 

Have two, one on the bench and one going back,... both failed because they didn't listen to advice. Don't do that!

 

Schematics are proprietary. There is possible lethal shock hazard with these amps. There are quirks about

going from combo to head that can and probably will irreparably damage the amp over time. And no, for now

it's proprietary, so I can't talk about it or get into more details.

 

These amps are very unforgiving of modifications, so don't do that!

 

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