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khoff2

Need help choosing amp or PA

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Hi guys,

 

I'm sure this topic comes up all the time bust here is my situation.

 

I recently started playing live gigs with a cover band. I play electric guitar and keys. We cover classic rock tunes from the 70's and 80's - AC/DC, the Cars, Pretenders, etc. Up to now, I have been a bedroom jammer using my POD HD500 into either headphones or M-Audio studio monitors. I live in an apartment, so practicing and tweeking at gig volume levels is impossible so headphones are a must.
 
I like the HD 500 because I can run it directly to a PA. However, what I am discovering is that not all PA's are created equal. The gig last week although they had a PA, did not want me using it as they only had one box (I think they meant DI box), and that's what the keyboard went into. They plugged me into an onstage VOX ac30, but since my patches weren't setup for that configuration, it didn't sound great. I am also finding that when the PA is in front of the stage, I can't hear myself play. So, I need advice on how to:
1 - hear myself
2 - have a consistant setup
 
I am thinking that in-ear monitors would solve one problem, but not all. I am also considering getting a DI box if that is going to be a concern at these gigs. Besides, those solutions, I am also wondering if the Line 6 L2t would be a better solution. That way I can have a consistent sound, run the keys through it if needed as well as electric guitar, and be able to monitor my sound. However, I love the tube amp sounds and am also considering the DT25 combo.
 
The perfect scenerio would be to be able to have my patches sound the same regardless of volume and or source - headphone, PA, powered speaker. etc. 
 
What would you guys suggest. I am getting frustrated and don't have the time or money to try everything that's made. I am leaning toward the DT25 combo, L2t or (M), or another powered speaker such as a K10. I had a JTV-69, but sold it last week to fund my PRS. So, right now its PRS -> HD500 -> PA and/or ??????
 
You guys are great, thanks.
Keith

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I've never tried a DT amp. I have used HD500 with L2t, tho. I think it's a good solution. You should be able to take an output of the HD500 (including L6 Link) and run that into the L2t and take another output and run that to the PA, if needed.

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A Marshall 9200 and two Orange PPC 4x12's :P

 

I heard those Atomic Reactors are pretty cool, and another cheap alternative to look at might be the Tech 21 power engine. It's light, versatile and has a good flat response and you can use it a bunch of different ways.

 

Of course the LT2 or LT3 would work excellent as well besides buying some big monster full blown powered P.A. cab/cabs.

 

I guess a lot depends on how much you want to spend and how heavy. EV JBL QSC Yorkville and Mackie also have great powered FRFR speakers in many different power and price variations.

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L2t is your best bet if you are setting up patches with headphones, your sound will be very close to what is reproduced by the pa system (although obviously there is no substitute for setting up patches at gig volume)

You should always insist on using your gear the way you prefer at gigs, if he was micing up the vox there is no reason you couldn't just plug the xlr from the mic into the back of your hd500

With the lt2 you can send a signal from your hd500 to the lt2 for your on stage monitoring and an output from the hd500 xlr's to the pa for front of house, you could then plug your keyboard into the lt2 also

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The perfect scenerio would be to be able to have my patches sound the same regardless of volume and or source - headphone, PA, powered speaker. etc.

 

This is what we're all after...reality, however, is somewhat less forgiving. You can get close to this goal with an FRFR rig. I run the POD straight to FOH with an L2T as a floor monitor for my stage volume. Under most conditions, this works quite well, with minimal difference in tone between what I'm hearing, vs what the audience is hearing. There are other FRFR options out there, too...prices range from the affordable to the comical. What's never really gonna work is trying to run full amp models straight to the PA, and trying to use a traditional guitar amp for your stage volume. They're very different animals, and any given patch will sound markedly different through each one. It's a tweaking nightmare. But if you stick to FRFR, then your sound through the PA, whatever you chose to use as a monitor, and your headphones should all be fairly consistent....close enough for government work, anyway.

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You shouldn't need a DI if you have a HD500; just go straight out to the FOH.  Like mcbeddall says above, it would use the same cable that they would mic your amp with anyhow.  The sound guy either didn't know what he was doing or didn't know your HD500 had a direct out.

 

I have a DT25 amp and cab and it does sound incredible.  I also have an Alto TS110 powered PA speaker that sounds incredible.  The amp sounds better for guitar but the PA handles acoustic tones better.  The Alto speaker cost me $199 which is 5 or 6 times cheaper than I bought the amp and cab for.

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Late reply to this post, however - others may face the same issue...

 

My very favorite set-up is running the HD500(x) headphone jack OUT to the stereo "RETURN" on the back of a Line6 HD147 head, into a stereo 4x12 Marshall cabinet. This bypasses the HD147 pre-amp and uses the HD500(x) as the controller. You can do the same thing with any kidney bean POD.  Zero hiss and you get to take advantage of the stereo effect.  Used HD147s are available for under $400 all day long. It's a 300-watt stereo power amp that claims to be able to run eight 4x12 cabs... in stereo. Don't know of too many bars that have stage space (or even allow) 32 twelve-inch speakers for one guitar player... Ha!

 

The sound is fantastic and, like I said, hiss-free. Solid state reliability and low cost. Used HD500: $300; used HD147: $350, used JCM900 4x12: $400. Just over $1100 with tax. Not bad for a fire-breathing half stack rig that can be played at concert or bedroom volumes. Plus, you can also run a line out to the house system when one is available. Substitute another brand name stereo cabinet (or drop to a 2x12) and save a few bucks.  Or, get TWO mono 4x12 cabs and make a stereo Rig of Doom. Or enter the realm of insanity and run FOUR stereo 4x12 cabs... Ha!

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Ah! Forgot to add: if you use an HD147's RETURN only (bypassing the preamp by only using one side of the effects loop), you MUST plug in a dummy jack to the front of the amp to hear anything.

 

Guitar output to HD500 guitar input; headphone stereo out to HD147 effect loop RETURN; plug one end of another guitar cable into the front of the HD147 and leave the other end unconnected. I used a 1' pedal cable and tucked the other end under the amp.

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This thread helped me a lot.  I just got a new HD500X yesterday.  Got a JTV69 last week.  My goal is to have electric, acoustic, and virtual capo all in one guitar in an integrated system.  (I have been carrying a 2nd guitar with me just for one song, this is nuts.) 

 

Now I have the chance to buy a like-new DT25 for about $550 (I live in Germany) to go with my brand new 500X.  For a purely electric rig this would be excellent.  But after doing a lot of reading I came to the conclusion that my acoustic needs would still not be met.  So I will have to go for FRFR, maybe the L2T.  This thread confirmed that I have to let that DT25 go...sadly.  I already have a very nice tube amp so no worries :-)  But I agree, there is no point in having a Pod running into the mixer and having my tube amp with me on stage (unless a DT)- the sounds would be very different.  Therefore the "Stage amp" will need to be FRFR. 

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This thread helped me a lot.  I just got a new HD500X yesterday.  Got a JTV69 last week.  My goal is to have electric, acoustic, and virtual capo all in one guitar in an integrated system.  (I have been carrying a 2nd guitar with me just for one song, this is nuts.) 

 

Now I have the chance to buy a like-new DT25 for about $550 (I live in Germany) to go with my brand new 500X.  For a purely electric rig this would be excellent.  But after doing a lot of reading I came to the conclusion that my acoustic needs would still not be met.  So I will have to go for FRFR, maybe the L2T.  This thread confirmed that I have to let that DT25 go...sadly.  I already have a very nice tube amp so no worries :-)  But I agree, there is no point in having a Pod running into the mixer and having my tube amp with me on stage (unless a DT)- the sounds would be very different.  Therefore the "Stage amp" will need to be FRFR. 

 

The DT is outstanding amp for Electric tones and you can pull off some acoustic tones on it (although not that great but plausible). So for you situation the FRFR makes the most sense. However; just for those reading in the future, the DT series does have excellent direct out on it. So you can take the DT to your FOH without a mic and still get the DT electric tones.

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Hi guys,

 

I'm sure this topic comes up all the time bust here is my situation.

 

I recently started playing live gigs with a cover band. I play electric guitar and keys. We cover classic rock tunes from the 70's and 80's - AC/DC, the Cars, Pretenders, etc. Up to now, I have been a bedroom jammer using my POD HD500 into either headphones or M-Audio studio monitors. I live in an apartment, so practicing and tweeking at gig volume levels is impossible so headphones are a must.
 
I like the HD 500 because I can run it directly to a PA. However, what I am discovering is that not all PA's are created equal. The gig last week although they had a PA, did not want me using it as they only had one box (I think they meant DI box), and that's what the keyboard went into. They plugged me into an onstage VOX ac30, but since my patches weren't setup for that configuration, it didn't sound great. I am also finding that when the PA is in front of the stage, I can't hear myself play. So, I need advice on how to:
1 - hear myself
2 - have a consistant setup
 
I am thinking that in-ear monitors would solve one problem, but not all. I am also considering getting a DI box if that is going to be a concern at these gigs. Besides, those solutions, I am also wondering if the Line 6 L2t would be a better solution. That way I can have a consistent sound, run the keys through it if needed as well as electric guitar, and be able to monitor my sound. However, I love the tube amp sounds and am also considering the DT25 combo.
 
The perfect scenerio would be to be able to have my patches sound the same regardless of volume and or source - headphone, PA, powered speaker. etc. 
 
What would you guys suggest. I am getting frustrated and don't have the time or money to try everything that's made. I am leaning toward the DT25 combo, L2t or (M), or another powered speaker such as a K10. I had a JTV-69, but sold it last week to fund my PRS. So, right now its PRS -> HD500 -> PA and/or ??????
 
You guys are great, thanks.
Keith

 

For my personal monitor I bought a Behringer 150 watt 5" monitor that mounts right onto my mike stand.  I can set up my monitor sound just the way I want it without even bending over.  And it doesn't blast anybody else either.  The Behringer is a cheaper version of one made by (I think Mackie) but I am satisfied with the Behringer.  I used IEM before and I really felt disconnected from the rest of the band, although our rehearsal room was so loud (or I should say the people playing in it) that I am pretty sure the IEM saved my hearing.  However for live use I prefer the little mike-mounted monitor.  fits in a little gig bag and weighs almost nothing too.  Costs much less than an IEM system.

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