Amplification for HD500X for small gig use.

[Old-Rocker]

Guys,please ignore this thread,i have just read another thread which has made me realise,I am so far off the pace with a unit like this,i couldn't consider trying to gig with one of these in the near or maybe distant future.

Hi,i recently joined the Forum,after playing through a DT25 Combo,very impressed,but i didn't realise it was a Valve/Tube power Amp until i read it in the forum,i don't really want to get back into Valves.

So while in the DT25 section of the forum,i read that the 500X has the same Pre-Amps models as the DT25(though there appears to be differing views on that)so i've started reading up on the 500X.

So i'm interested in any getting the best gig sound i can out of a 500X ,should i be thinking guitar power amp & speakers?,or is there a decent combo amp ,i dont think a Monitor type speaker would sound "Guitar amp"enough for me,but who knows :) .

I'm not really interested in accoustic sounds,just electric,mostly outdated pub rock.

I should say that i tried to go this route with a GT100,but i couldn't even get it to sound as good as my 2 x Modeling Cube 60's(to me).

But after playing through a DT25,which i think would work great for me,for gigging,i'm thinking maybe i can make a 500X work.

So any recommendations/opinions,views,on what amp set up i should consider?,the more the merrier

 

Guys,please ignore this thread,i have just read another thread which has made me realise,I am so far off the pace with a unit like this,i couldn't consider trying to gig with one of these in the near or maybe distant future.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Short of getting a DT25 or DT50, you can also look into the Freidman FRFR cab, or doing a power amp+cab setup, ala a Carvin T100 & the 2x12 of your choice.

 

I have a Carvin AG100 Acoustic amp that I'll drag out every once in a while and just insert into the loop return, going directly to the power amp section of the amp.  It's worked out good for me so far.  Another venue that I play at from time to time has a Drive 2x12 combo there that I do the same thing with.

 

I'm likely going to go the Carvin T100 route and get my own custom 2x12 cab made from Mojotone, basically a Marshall Bluesbreaker cab with Fender Tweed appointments as I'm very fond of that look.  I haven't settled on a speaker choice yet, but am toying with the idea of paring a Celestion Vintage 30 with a Celestion EVH.

 

[pianoguyy]

Without going a full-fledge FRFR, you could get a keyboard amp.
There are a couple "pa in a box" type units, that look like a typical combo but are actually a 'combo pa'.

 

Anything else will probably color your tone too much. Which is fine if you will always use that setup. But anytime you switch from a physical amp to a different physical amp or direct to a mixer, your tone is going to change. Which is why most of us suggest staying as neutral as possible, so that you always remain the same.

[Old-Rocker]

FlyingSquirrel & pianoguyy, .Sorry to waste your time,but thanks for replying,i have edited my original post.

 

 

[FlyingSquirrel]

I still go direct for FOH, but I just use the onstage cab for reference and to generate feedback sustain.  I still get some of my guitar back in my in ears.

[pianoguyy]

Guys,please ignore this thread,i have just read another thread which has made me realise,I am so far off the pace with a unit like this,i couldn't consider trying to gig with one of these in the near or maybe distant future.

 

 

Guys,please ignore this thread,i have just read another thread which has made me realise,I am so far off the pace with a unit like this,i couldn't consider trying to gig with one of these in the near or maybe distant future.

 

 

I think there a lot of us that are 'old rocker' dudes here. So, what seems to be the problem? 

 

How do we help?

[Old-Rocker]

After reading a thread about tone building,particulary Dual Amps,I think i probably need to buy one of these & learn how to use/configure?it in the safety of my home :D .

I think buying one this week & plugging it into something & gigging with it this weekend,is a stretch too far,so i'll just put up with using the one amplifier i have left, that still works & spend more time on the Edit software.

[cruisinon2]

After reading a thread about tone building,particulary Dual Amps,I think i probably need to buy one of these & learn how to use/configure?it in the safety of my home :D .

I think buying one this week & plugging it into something & gigging with it this weekend,is a stretch too far,so i'll just put up with using the one amplifier i have left, that still works & spend more time on the Edit software.

Forget gigging...I didn't even take my 500X to rehearsal until I had messed around with it extensively for a solid month after I got it. Takes a while to get comfy with this thing, and it wasn't my first modeler.

[pianoguyy]

After reading a thread about tone building,particulary Dual Amps,I think i probably need to buy one of these & learn how to use/configure?it in the safety of my home :D .

I think buying one this week & plugging it into something & gigging with it this weekend,is a stretch too far,so i'll just put up with using the one amplifier i have left, that still works & spend more time on the Edit software.

 

Absolutely. 

 

Unless someone is providing the backline for me, I have never used anything on stage or in the studio without first working with it. 

 

 

*with the exception of guitars. I had a deal with a brand and would literally be on stage with a new guitar each night. Sometimes I would pick it out earlier in the day at a dealer and then have my guy get it ready by showtime, other times it would be a surprise and would just be there for me. But since it was always the same brand of guitars, they weren't really any different than each other. 

Everything thing else has always been used first. It is sort of like learning a song. You don't learn songs on stage. You don't learn songs at rehearsal, You learn songs at home, on your own time. You bring what you learned to rehearsal to put it all together with everyone else. On stage, you get paid, there is no room for error.  

 

 

I gave this piece of advice to a stripper who fell going down the steps: 

You get up on stage and you do the same routine twenty times a night. You are going to make a mistake. The difference, however, between being human and being an entertainer, is simple. You do it 100 times a week to perfection. But me, the customer, I am only here to see you do it one time. If you make a mistake, all I know is that you screwed up. I don't know the 100 times you did it flawlessly. I just know you as the girl that fell, and that is the story I will tell to my friends. 

 

And I said the same thing to a chef as I was firing him: 

How many times have you cooked this meal. How many meals have you cooked today. None of that matters to a customer. They are only concerned with their one meal. Most people eat 2, sometimes 3 times a day. If you screw up a plate, you destroyed a third, possible half, of their daily eating. Their night is ruined. And depending on what you messed up, your mistake could mess with their system and ruin tomorrow as well. 

 

 

Never take untested gear on stage. There is too much at stake. 

[Old-Rocker]

:) I think the world i play in,is somewhat different to the world you describe(but i have had my moments ;) )but i agree completely,maybe an old gen AC30 you could get away with1 vol,1 tone,but not something like the 500X.

I'll repeat myself (again)it's the Dual Amp thing that's put the brakes on.

[pianoguyy]

Forget gigging...I didn't even take my 500X to rehearsal until I had messed around with it extensively for a solid month after I got it. Takes a while to get comfy with this thing, and it wasn't my first modeler.

 

It was my first modeler. It was the first piece of 'modern' gear that I owned. It replaced a complete rig (everything between the guitar and the pa) that had been left unchanged (because I had perfected it) for 20+ years, 

 

I did the same. Work on it at home. Work on it at rehearsal. Try it out live on one song. Try it out on a set. Try it out for a night. Eventually, stop taking the other rig as backup. Sell everything. 

[pianoguyy]

Dual amps and phasing (yes, I saw the other post in the other thread) is simple, even without knowing that it is phasing that is causing it... 

 

Make your sound. 

If you don't like what it sounds like - CHANGE IT. 

Sure, it may be a phasing issue which can be solved any number of ways. But, in order to keep it simple, we don't need to know what the cause is. All we need to know is that the end result is not pleasant. So, again,  CHANGE IT. 

 

Change it until you get a result that you like. Save all of the science experiments for the lollipop guys that spend their time wishing Stefon got his own spinoff from SNL. Yay Rosie! 

Twist the knobs until you get a sound that you like. 

[FlyingSquirrel]

I construct and send all presets in mono, no more phasing.

Live, you're 90% of the time mixed completely in mono anyway.

[AlexKenivel]

I did tons of reading before I got my unit. I was still lost by the time I got it. I still find myself a little lost at times but it takes some physical time with it to get real comfy.

 

I used it at a gig the week I got it and did pretty well..

[pianoguyy]

I learned years ago - there is only so much you can learn without first-handedly experiencing something. 

On paper, why does a Casio keyboard cost $200 and a Roland costs $5000, when the Casio is so much better? 

Play it. Experience it. You'll quickly understand. 

 

 

The EDIT software can only do so much without having it hooked up to hear what the end result sounds like. 

[DunedinDragon]

Why would you let dual-amp phasing be something that puts you off?  It's not like dual amp configurations are something you absolutely MUST master in order for the POD to be useful.

 

I guess at this point after two or three months I've built 20 or so presets I use onstage every week and suprisingly none of them have, or need to have, a dual amp configuration.  Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you NEED to do it.  That doesn't mean I won't eventually come across something I might want to use one on, but amazingly enough it's not that hard to build very capable sounds with just the basics.

 

Calm down and focus on the fundamentals.  An amp, maybe an overdrive, reverb, delay, possibly a compressor, maybe even an EQ all on a single signal chain.  I suspect using just those tools you'll probaby find a way to develop some very useable live patches.  It really isn't rocket science and it doesn't need to be that hard.

[AlexKenivel]

I've been using dual amps from the get go and just because there's some phase cancellation somewhere in the spectrum, doesn't always make the tone sound bad.

 

In fact, I phase low out some of the harsh bottom end of the PV Panama with the Big Bottom amp. By itself, the way I have the BB set up sounds strange, but really smooths out the PVP

[Old-Rocker]

Why would you let dual-amp phasing be something that puts you off?  It's not like dual amp configurations are something you absolutely MUST master in order for the POD to be useful.

 

I guess at this point after two or three months I've built 20 or so presets I use onstage every week and suprisingly none of them have, or need to have, a dual amp configuration.  Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you NEED to do it.  That doesn't mean I won't eventually come across something I might want to use one on, but amazingly enough it's not that hard to build very capable sounds with just the basics.

 

Calm down and focus on the fundamentals.  An amp, maybe an overdrive, reverb, delay, possibly a compressor, maybe even an EQ all on a single signal chain.  I suspect using just those tools you'll probaby find a way to develop some very useable live patches.  It really isn't rocket science and it doesn't need to be that hard.

Firstly,i can't afford to calm down,i'll do that when i can't remember i'm not calm :)

Now,i don't regard Dual Amps as something i can have if i want,i regard them as essential,i figured out a long time ago that 2 cheap amps work better in my gigging world(pubs),than 1 good Amp(For Me).

If the 500X couldn't do Dual Amps,i wouldn't be interested in it,I would be ordering an AmpliFire instead,if i could afford 2 of them,i would have them.

The main reason i would prefer the AmpliFire,is because i believe it's main focus is the Amp models & effects are secondary,i believe i would use about 2% of the effects in the 500X,because i don't use them,i fill out my sound with Dual Amps :)

I'll stop now before i commence on a Novel.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I use Dual Amps especially in my "Morph" preset.  Rock the expression pedal back for a clean AC30, forward for a Bogner Uber.  
I still have it sent to mono.  All of my presets and outputs are sending the same info.  For a 2 guitar player band, mono just helps everything sit in its space well.  

[Old-Rocker]

Agreed,with 2 guitars,i think i've developed my 2 amp sound,because since the mid 60's i've played in 3 piece bands & it fills out the Guitar sound nice,but still leaves the Bass & Drums clear & defined.