Lose Stereo Path 1 to 2

[Joepeggio]

Is it normal to lose stereo when going from path 1 to 2?   I know I can split the paths before the end of 1, pan them then direct 1A to 2A and 1B to 2B, but then i have split paths in 2.  I like to process my reverb and delays in parallel paths so I am not "reverbing" my delays.  If I split in 1, I get reverb on one side and delay on the other, not parallel.

 

I like mono front of course going into an AMP.  Then split into 2 paths for different cabs panned left and right at the merge.  Then i go to path 2 to and apply any post effects (stereo of course).  I then would like to split path 2 for delay on one and reverb on the other (both stereo paths).

 

I try to put the delay and verb in 1 but not enough DSP for amp 2 cabs stereo verb and stereo delay etc...

 

I lose any stereo effect that was in path 1 in this setup.  The cabs I have panned remerge.  The only way around this I found is putting a Stereo Send before end of 1 then a Stereo Return at the beginning of 2 and jump the send/returns with short cables.

 

[phil_m]

So the issue is that all paths running through the Helix are stereo. You're not really losing stereo separation, it's that it's not acting like you're expecting with the path split there in path 2. I'm sure you're assuming that left would go to path 2A and right would go to path 2B. What's happening is that after the split, both 2A and 2B are receiving left and right output from those effects. To get a stereo split, you need to add a pan block from the volume/pan category before each of those preamp blocks. Pan the one hard left and the other hard right - you'll hear the split you want then.

[Joepeggio]

Found it.  My mic preamp blocks in path 2 were collapsing the stereo path.  DOH!  My bad!!

 

Thanks Phil for the quick response!!

[aepoc]

So the issue is that all paths running through the Helix are stereo. You're not really losing stereo separation, it's that it's not acting like you're expecting with the path split there in path 2. I'm sure you're assuming that left would go to path 2A and right would go to path 2B. What's happening is that after the split, both 2A and 2B are receiving left and right output from those effects. To get a stereo split, you need to add a pan block from the volume/pan category before each of those preamp blocks. Pan the one hard left and the other hard right - you'll hear the split you want then.

 

Holy crap I think I understand!  Thanks Phil!

[tagmusenmagnus1]

The best way is to use the pan function in the merge-block... In your case i would do it on both marge blocks - both in path 1 and 2, so you will get a cabinet in each side. 

Can I ask what the preamps in path 2 are for ? Havn't seen that one before :)

[tagmusenmagnus1]

Actually in this case, you would need to move the merge block in path 1a down to 1b and then move the A/B-block from 2a down to 2b to get a proper stereo seperation. 

[Joepeggio]

Actually in this case, you would need to move the merge block in path 1a down to 1b and then move the A/B-block from 2a down to 2b to get a proper stereo seperation.

That works too but I lose the reverb & delay processing i wanted.

 

 

The mic pre's add a little "sweetness" to the sound. I saw the trick somewhere here on this forum.

 

gain at 3.5, volume at 10, line. = unity. I adjust the gain volume relationship to change the character a bit. But in the midst of live or in the mix, its not enough to notice.

[tagmusenmagnus1]

And what is that ? - The thing you loose ? 
I cant figure out what you loose except for the delay before you second split. But you could just move that to after merge ? 

 

Also - Do you have a third cab ? And what are you using that for ? 

[Joepeggio]

The third cab was there to A/B the difference between 2 cabs vs 1. It's now gone. The 2 won in this patch.

 

I did that split u suggested to 2a and 2b. I lose being able to process the reverb and delay in separate paths. If 2a is left and 2b is right the delay and reverb only apply to their respective sides. I was experimenting with having the delay not going thru the reverb. More defined delay trail.

 

I guess I need to learn if when a stereo signal with different tones left and right hits a stereo delay or reverb, do they stay left and right? Or does the effect smear them together?

 

If smeared I would have to put the different sounding cabs at the end.

 

Thanks for all your help. Still learning this thing after 3 months! :-)

[rickclay73]

Any chance you can upload a picture of this setup?

[CloreenBaconskin]

Actually in this case, you would need to move the merge block in path 1a down to 1b and then move the A/B-block from 2a down to 2b to get a proper stereo seperation.

I need a picture...

[marrstians]

 

 

 

Two Different approaches i took. The top one i selected both Lines 1 and 2 take the guitar input. Put a hard pan left on top, hard pan right on bottom. I also panned both outputs hard left and right to match. Giving me two separate signal chains to work with.

 

Second approach i wanted to process on both 1 and 2, so i split line 1 with a hard left on the top (A) and hard right on B. This then joins back to stereo before continuing to line 2 for more processing.