Distortion on low A (5 String Bass)

[jhsmusic]

Hiya

So I am playing around with the Helix and my 5 string (Cort with Bartolini Mk3 all set to neutral) and I am getting some very odd bass distortion.

At the moment I am running the Helix with no Amp or FX using the Guitar In and the SPDIF out into a Focusrite Liquid 56.  I have turned everything off just to see if it was the amp/cab/FX that were causing the artifact.

It seems mainly to affect the low A but it can be heard on the E as well.

I have tried the output to headphones and it's still there I also put my bass through my Sans Amp RPM and its fine no distortion at all.

I have dropped the Guitar Input level and tried the noise gate on and off with no effect

I have Tried dropping the Digital level on the Helix output and no effect
The signal to the Focusrite is well within normal and there is no peak
There are no effects anywhere in the signal path

I have tried with DAW tracking and without
I have tried with the amp/speaker on and off and no difference distortion still there.

 

So at the moment, I am thinking the Helix can't handle such low frequencies but I find that surprising as my Fractal can so I am at a bit of a loss.

Anyone else using a 5 string with the helix? 
Anyone got any ideas on how to get rid of this?

Thanks in advance for any ideas

[FlyingsCool]

You said you dropped the input level, but have you tried the Input Pad?

 

What kind of pickups are they (sorry, I'm not familiar with the pickups you said, so I couldn't tell what they are from the website), Active or Passive?  Single or double coil?

 

Does it sound like digital clipping?  Since you said the signal is well below limits at the output and into the DAW, sounds like it's clipping on input maybe?

 

Sounds like you've checked it all out pretty appropriately.  Have you created a recording of the bass through the helix and direct into the interface for comparison and submitted a ticket?

[gunpointmetal]

I have guitars tuned to the same pitch as your bass and they don't distort unnaturally. Something is awry somewhere along the signal path.

[Rocco_Crocco]

I have guitars tuned to the same pitch as your bass and they don't distort unnaturally. Something is awry somewhere along the signal path.

You have a guitar tuned to a 5 string basses low A? 

[hideout]

You have a guitar tuned to a 5 string basses low A?

^^this^^

[jhsmusic]

You said you dropped the input level, but have you tried the Input Pad?

 

What kind of pickups are they (sorry, I'm not familiar with the pickups you said, so I couldn't tell what they are from the website), Active or Passive?  Single or double coil?

 

Does it sound like digital clipping?  Since you said the signal is well below limits at the output and into the DAW, sounds like it's clipping on input maybe?

 

Sounds like you've checked it all out pretty appropriately.  Have you created a recording of the bass through the helix and direct into the interface for comparison and submitted a ticket?

Hiya cant find anything that looks like imput pad (new to the Helix sry) can you guide me a bit?

 

The pickups are Active double coil

 

It sounds like the signal is too hot for the Helix or it does not like the low frequencies 

 

I have managed to get it working to a degree by reducing the output level and moving the signal to the 1/4 output and it's just about recordable, I think with a bit more tweeking I might get it a bit better.

 

 

I have guitars tuned to the same pitch as your bass and they don't distort unnaturally. Something is awry somewhere along the signal path.

 

The signal path is Bass --> Helix Gtr Input --> No FX or Amp (all blocks empty) --> SPDIF out --> Focusrite --> DAW 

Cant see the signal peaking at either the Focusrite or DAW 

 

 

[Rocco_Crocco]

At what fret does the distortion go away on the string?

[jhsmusic]

At what fret does the distortion go away on the string?

I did not check, it was certainly there on the Low A to the 5th and on the E to the 7th (that was just the song I was recording).

 

I wont be able to do any more checking for a day or so as I am away

[FlyingsCool]

Active pickups,... definitely sounds like you are overdriving the input circuit.

 

"Guitar in Pad" is the first option in the Global Settings In/Outs menu.  I forget how much it drops the signal -6 dB I think but all that matters is you don't overdrive your input signal.  You may need to reduce your input even further at the "Guitar in" depending on how hot your pickups are.  Though maybe you might want to find a way to lower the output of the pickups when you are using the Helix?  Helix is like and responds like an amp, but I am imagining there are some differences and you may not need such hot pickups to get the results you normally use it for.

 

You can always boost the signal if you need it louder later in the chain, but my bet is you won't need to once you get the correct input level and you're input signal isn't clipping anymore.

 

From @Digital Igloo - "Helix's Guitar Input has a digitally-controlled analog pad before A/D conversion. FWIW, the impedance circuit is the same."

 

You may find this thread interesting http://line6.com/support/topic/22535-what-does-the-input-pad-actually-do/

[ColonelForbin]

I have had better luck running my active 5 string basses into the Helix 1/4" AUX input. Was getting distortion on low B string with and without input pad on guitar input.

[FlyingsCool]

I have had better luck running my active 5 string basses into the Helix 1/4" AUX input. Was getting distortion on low B string with and without input pad on guitar input.

 

Which, in fact, is what AUX is for... Sorry I forgot about that... :-/

[gunpointmetal]

You have a guitar tuned to a 5 string basses low A? 

Yes. I have two Agile Interceptor Pro 930 9-string guitars (30" scale) tuned (low-to-high) A(5-string Bass)-E(4 string bass)-A(7 string guitar down a step)-E-A-D-G-B-E.

[jbuhajla]

Yes. I have two Agile Interceptor Pro 930 9-string guitars (30" scale) tuned (low-to-high) A(5-string Bass)-E(4 string bass)-A(7 string guitar down a step)-E-A-D-G-B-E.

What's the quality like on those? I've looked at a few online, but have not had one in my hands. 

[gunpointmetal]

What's the quality like on those? I've looked at a few online, but have not had one in my hands. 

My $500 Agile 8-string is nicer and plays better than the $900 Schecter Banshee I had, and the 9-strings are super quality. Great fretwork, solid construction, great electronics (all mine have EMG pickups stock). If I wanted to replace the 9s with something from Schecter or Ibanez, I actually couldn't, lol, because their 9s won't support the strings and tuning I use, and it would still cost me twice as much and I'd still be stock with stock electronics. My Agiles get more play time than my name-brand guitars, partially because of the extra strings and extended scale length, but mostly because they just play better. I wouldn't go for their sub-$400 guitars, though, their OEM electronics and tuners aren't so hot. 

[jhsmusic]

Hiya and thanks for all the suggestions here is where I am up to:

Guitar in Pad om/off - no difference

Aux in - Much better but still there

Return 1 in - As Guitar in

 

I have played with SPDIF output levels and that does make a difference but the signal gets so quiet it's verging on unusable and adding the Input Gate does little to help

I then decided to put my base though a SansAMP Bass Driver DI into the Mic Input of the Helix to see if that would tame a hot signal and to an extent it has but it is still there in the low frequencies like it's overdriving something but the input levels to the SPDIF in are all in the green as well as the input levels in the DAW.  I tried the SansAmp DI in both on and off modes and off mode was the best so far with an acceptable signal level.

Solution:

Guitar In (pad on) to 1/4" out no distortion

So I guess that the SPDIF circuit is, in some way, getting too much of a hot signal at either my Focusrite or the Helix and as I don't have another SPDIF A/D converter to hand it will remain an unknown for the present moment.

Many thanks for all your suggestions and patience. 


 

[duncann]

I don't think I've seen it mentioned, but did you try replacing the battery? On my Ibanez 1205E I can recall a weak battery at one point causing unwanted distortion/clipping. Not sure how this explanation might jive with it sounding OK through your Sans Amp though.

[decreebass]

Dumb question, but have you replaced the battery in your guitar yet? I had a similar problem with my JP13-7 into some other gear and it was wigging me out - but then I realized my battery was getting weak. Once I replaced it, the noise/distortion went away.