Amplifying the Home Studio Helix: Decisions, Decisions . . .

[DammKid]

Greetings and Happy New Year to All

 

Like most others here, I've been messin' around with a legion of various amps, cabs and stomp boxes for what seems like decades now, in a largely fruitless effort to get that ever-elusive 'ideal' tone from every type of guitar I own, but I'd really like to set-up something different in the near future - an alternative, low-maintenance stereo arrangement of some sort, with fewer headaches when it comes to signal chain and FX, and more playing time.  And so, I'm planning on purchasing a Helix Rack and Control floorboard here very soon.

 

However, I don't gig or perform in public much, so I'm a bit stumped on which solid-state or tube amp/speaker cab match-up (or powered speakers?) I should look to use, to best amplify the new Helix system in my home-studio setting.  Hence, I'm hoping to get some experienced suggestions from the veteran membership here.  Basically, here are my choices . . .

 

1) HELIX to ElectroVoice CP-2200 solid-state stereo power amp to two JBL MPro 415 PA speakers (relatively high-powered)

2) HELIX to Mesa-Boogie 50:50 stereo (tube) power amp to two Mesa-Boogie Road-Ready Cabs with EVM-12L speakers (medium-powered)

3) HELIX to two Adams A7X powered monitor speakers (lower-powered)

 

I'm guessing that of these three combinations, #3 is likely to give me the clearest (least colored), widest frequency response, but then, I suspect the overall power and bass response in that particular set-up is likely to suffer somewhat. Anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for me on where best to start? I'd sure appreciate it! ;-)

 

Thanks for listening, and thanks also to all who choose to respond.

 

Cheers!

[cruisinon2]

54 minutes ago, DammKid said:

Greetings and Happy New Year to All

 

Like most others here, I've been messin' around with a legion of various amps, cabs and stomp boxes for what seems like decades now, in a largely fruitless effort to get that ever-elusive 'ideal' tone from every type of guitar I own, but I'd really like to set-up something different in the near future - an alternative, low-maintenance stereo arrangement of some sort, with fewer headaches when it comes to signal chain and FX, and more playing time.  And so, I'm planning on purchasing a Helix Rack and Control floorboard here very soon.

 

However, I don't gig or perform in public much, so I'm a bit stumped on which solid-state or tube amp/speaker cab match-up (or powered speakers?) I should look to use, to best amplify the new Helix system in my home-studio setting.  Hence, I'm hoping to get some experienced suggestions from the veteran membership here.  Basically, here are my choices . . .

 

1) HELIX to ElectroVoice CP-2200 solid-state stereo power amp to two JBL MPro 415 PA speakers (relatively high-powered)

2) HELIX to Mesa-Boogie 50:50 stereo (tube) power amp to two Mesa-Boogie Road-Ready Cabs with EVM-12L speakers (medium-powered)

3) HELIX to two Adams A7X powered monitor speakers (lower-powered)

 

I'm guessing that of these three combinations, #3 is likely to give me the clearest (least colored), widest frequency response, but then, I suspect the overall power and bass response in that particular set-up is likely to suffer somewhat. Anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for me on where best to start? I'd sure appreciate it! ;-)

 

Thanks for listening, and thanks also to all who choose to respond.

 

Cheers!

 

Numbers 1 or 3 are your best options. In order for Helix to do what it does best... mimic real-world amps... your output needs to be a clean slate, which means some sort of FRFR speaker(s).

 

As for running it into an actual guitar amp, while it can certainly be done and the are plenty who do just that, personally, I don't get it. Pump Helix through a Boogie, it'll sound a whole lot like a Boogie, regardless of your chosen amp model. For me, that defeats the whole purpose of having a modeler in the first place. Ymmv...

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, DammKid said:

I don't gig or perform in public much

 

Go with option 3. For $1500 for the pair, they'd better not sound like crap. My Rokit 6 ($400 for the pair, with stands and cables at Amazon, free shipping with PRIME) speakers sound fine.

If you want the OPTION to play out, a pair of Yamaha dxr12 speakers with poles and cables will run you $1400 and blow the doors off most venues you're likely to play.

[DammKid]

Many thanks for the feedback guys! 

 

Currently, I play MP3's and other pre-recorded music through the higher-powered solid-state (EV/JBL) setup all the time, and its awesome for that application because of the nice bottom-end provided by the 15" MPro speakers. And conversely, I routinely use the powered Adam's A7X's with keyboards and synth's, because of their wider frequency response, and the fact that higher power isn't generally needed for the keys. But as I said earlier, the bottom end is a bit lacking, especially relative to set of monster 15's.

 

Given the narrower and generally 'mid-heavy' frequency band of electric guitar signal, I guess I was kinda hoping that the solid-state EV/JBL setup might just work well with the Helix. So I'm curious, what is it about the powered speakers that makes them better suited in this case? Is it strictly their wider frequency response?

 

Thanks again.

[telewest]

Hi

  I can tell you that the adam A7X are a fantastic choice I have been using them with my helix floor for quite a few years now and I am extremely happy with them, I use the helix as my interface through the apple imac with logic pro x and as long as you spend some time getting your eq's correct in Helix all is good I will say that when I first got Helix I thought I'd made a bad purchase but after spending some time working through the issues and deciding to give the Adams a go and  I haven't looked back, good luck with your decision and remember it's about playing and getting a great sound not endless tweaking keep it simple and the rewards will come.

[DunedinDragon]

6 hours ago, DammKid said:

Many thanks for the feedback guys! 

 

Currently, I play MP3's and other pre-recorded music through the higher-powered solid-state (EV/JBL) setup all the time, and its awesome for that application because of the nice bottom-end provided by the 15" MPro speakers. And conversely, I routinely use the powered Adam's A7X's with keyboards and synth's, because of their wider frequency response, and the fact that higher power isn't generally needed for the keys. But as I said earlier, the bottom end is a bit lacking, especially relative to set of monster 15's.

 

Given the narrower and generally 'mid-heavy' frequency band of electric guitar signal, I guess I was kinda hoping that the solid-state EV/JBL setup might just work well with the Helix. So I'm curious, what is it about the powered speakers that makes them better suited in this case? Is it strictly their wider frequency response?

 

Thanks again.

 

THIS^^^^^   is really the core question because given your description of how you intend to use the Helix I have to wonder what value the power amps provide in your setup.  I think you'll find many if not most of us have a simple direct connection to powered speakers whether they be powered studio monitors or powered stage speakers for live applications.  With today's modern flat response speaker designs I'm not sure there's any real discernable value in having an amp in the signal chain.  The powered speakers alone provide everything one really needs.

 

Most of this has to do with the advancements in the design of powered speakers over the last 10 to 15 years in providing flat, full range response which is all you really need with a Helix.  It's not about the wider frequency response as much as it is the flat frequency response for accurately and honestly reproducing whatever is being played through it.  I have two different setups in my house, both of which are pretty common arrangements.  I have one Helix floor unit connected direct to my computer via USB and connected direct to two Yamaha HS7 studio monitors.  On the input side of the Helix I have my electronic keyboard, my electric guitar, my bass guitar, my acoustic guitar, and my vocal mic all connected to the inputs on the Helix and I simply select the appropriate preset for the instrument I want to play.  All MP3's or videos I want to play along with come through the USB connection to the Helix and the computer provides the DAW if I want to record.  Separately I have a second Helix unit that I use for live performances.  It has a similar USB connection to my laptop but I use a Yamaha DXR12 as my powered speaker connected to that Helix unit, which is the speaker I use on stage when I play live.  I use this unit solely for designing and testing my patches and preparing my setups for live performances.

 

Both sets of speakers provide everything I need for the Helix which is a flat, full range powered output.  This is made possible by the advancement in the design of powered speakers over the last 10 to 15 years using bi-amp designs and integrated DSP processing rather than simple crossovers for more precision in managing the frequency response profile of the speaker.  As I said before, it's not about the frequency range of the guitar, it's about an accurate representation of any and all input sources across the entire frequency range.

[cruisinon2]

10 hours ago, DammKid said:

So I'm curious, what is it about the powered speakers that makes them better suited in this case? Is it strictly their wider frequency response?

 

The frequency response is really all that matters, and is independent of the power source. If a speaker is FRFR, then it's FRFR...doesn't much matter where the juice is coming from. 

 

[DammKid]

Excellent !!!!

 

Thank you very much for the detailed responses, guys! These three posts have summed it up nicely for me. I'm glad to hear that my powered A7X's will serve my purposes well, and pleased to learn that others have used them with great results. The detailed description by DunedinDragon of how he has his various instruments and devices configured to the Helix (above), is particularly helpful to me, as I too will need to configure my Helix as the hub of my own system for use with MP3's, acoustic, electric and pedal steel guitars, and keyboards through a desktop MacPro. And now that I have some feel for it all, I can hardly wait. In fact, it now sounds like I'll be able to dispose of (sell) my Mackie mixer, soild-state amps and behemoth-sized JBL MPro speakers, which is great news!

 

In closing, I should also briefly add something regarding my limited experience with my Adams A7X's for guitar. A year or so ago, I purchased S-Gear by Scuffham Amps (my first and only modelling plug-in). I worked with (and evaluated) it for several weeks using a PRS direct-inject box through my Mackie mixer to the A7X's, and although it was incredibly convenient, versatile and simple to use, it didn't really bowl me over in terms of tones. It seemed to lack the overal, power and low end that I mentioned in my earlier posting. Hopefully, when configured essentially the very same way, the newer, higher-end/higher-priced Helix will surpass S-Gear in this regard. Crossing my fingers!

 

My thanks again to all!

 

P.S. - However, now that I think about it, one more question does occur to me . . . how would you best connect a synth or other keyboard to the Helix? My Adams A7X's are routinely used for my two keyboards, but if I connect the Helix to the A7X's, I would still want the keys reporting to the A7X's somehow, through the Helix.  Looking at the Inputs/Outputs on the Helix Rack, I'm not sure how I'd make that stereo connection? MIDI I'm guessing?

[DammKid]

Bump for Post Script edit . . .

[codamedia]

21 hours ago, DammKid said:

how would you best connect a synth or other keyboard to the Helix? My Adams A7X's are routinely used for my two keyboards, but if I connect the Helix to the A7X's, I would still want the keys reporting to the A7X's somehow, through the Helix.  Looking at the Inputs/Outputs on the Helix Rack, I'm not sure how I'd make that stereo connection? MIDI I'm guessing?

 

MIDI does not pass audio... so that's not the solution. 

 

I would setup a stereo RETURN as the last block in the helix... and connect your keyboard to those inputs. If you want the GUITAR and KEYBOARD to work at the same time, you need to set the MIX on the return to 50% if it isn't already.  

 

The guitar will process as always... the Keyboard will join at the last block, completely unaffected by everything before it. 

 

If you want to get into processing the Keyboard with the Helix you could setup it's own patch, or run a second path for the Keyboard that is separate from the guitar chain. 

[DammKid]

Thanks Coda!

 

It sounds like hooking-up a synth or keyboard to the Helix might be a tad complicated for a new or beginning Helix user (?), and this is kind of what I was concerned about.  I currently have my synth and 2nd keyboard plumbed to a Mackie mixer, which is connected to a MacPro via USB, so I'm thinking it might be best for me to just hang-on to the mixer for a few more weeks, since I can keep both keys attached to the mixer, while sending the Helix Outputs to the mixer, and then the mixer Outs to the A7X's, without too much added delay in learning the more advanced functions and features of Helix. That's probably what I'll end-up doing. But thanks again. 

[rd2rk]

I use a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 as mixer and audio/MIDI interface. Keyboard/synth, eDrums, Bass pre and Helix all go into the 18i20, which connects to my laptop via USB, into whatever DAW works best for whatever I'm doing. That allows me to play the synth via analog and/or MIDI, use softsynths (VST plugins) and effects, and by splitting the guitar signal before the Helix and taking both clean and effected tracks, I can re-amp at will. The many outputs from the 18i20 allow me to set up multiple monitor mixes so as to be able to rehearse a whole band (sans vocals) silently in my apartment.

 

That may sound complicated, but you're already doing some of it with your Mackie mixer which, unless I'm mistaken, only sends, via USB, 2 channels of audio and no MIDI?

[DammKid]

rd2rk,

 

Righto!  No MIDI Outs on my Onyx-1620, but you're right in that I am currently configured very similarly, save the MIDI option. And, much like your Scarlett, there are ample Outputs on the 1620 to allow for lots of versatility.  In fact, the more I think about it, and the more that others like yourself provide such comments, I may NOT be able to part with the Mackie mixer in the end. The fact is, its probably of doubtful value on the open market anyway, and in the long run, may prove to be of more value to me to simply keep it!