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mstoffel

Helix Stomp FOH and Amp Setup

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Hi experts,

 

I use my Helix Stomp mainly at home as my audio interface. Meaning I have output 1/2 connected to my speakers and usb for recording/playback.

My patches usually consist of an amp followed by a custom IR.

 

Now I want to use the Helix also live. To do that I just want to bypass the IR block (last in chain) and route the signal to the send jack and into the return of my guitar amp (or any other powerapm e.g. SD Powerstage). Output 1/2 would go to FOH including the IR block.

 

My issue is that that's not possible without using an additional block in the split path like that:

 

image.thumb.png.b3c8aa99946c8bcc21b65c6c5df44825.png

 

I don't need the EQ in the second path but I'm not able to draw a line without a block. I could also use a Send Block before the IR but then again I would loose another block......

Any Ideas? Really questioning myself, have read the manual and watched a lot of vids. This actually should be easy...

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

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42 minutes ago, mstoffel said:

Hi experts,

 

I use my Helix Stomp mainly at home as my audio interface. Meaning I have output 1/2 connected to my speakers and usb for recording/playback.

My patches usually consist of an amp followed by a custom IR.

 

Now I want to use the Helix also live. To do that I just want to bypass the IR block (last in chain) and route the signal to the send jack and into the return of my guitar amp (or any other powerapm e.g. SD Powerstage). Output 1/2 would go to FOH including the IR block.

 

My issue is that that's not possible without using an additional block in the split path like that:

 

image.thumb.png.b3c8aa99946c8bcc21b65c6c5df44825.png

 

I don't need the EQ in the second path but I'm not able to draw a line without a block. I could also use a Send Block before the IR but then again I would loose another block......

Any Ideas? Really questioning myself, have read the manual and watched a lot of vids. This actually should be easy...

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

Well I do something similar... though I actually want the EQ block in the split path, because it goes to the band's new in-ears that I'm still trying to get used to... so I've never tried to keep that path empty. If something has to be there as a place holder, you could always stick something in there that's not too DSP hungry, like a gain block, if that's what you're worried about. I'll have to fiddle with that when I get home... now I'm curious, lol

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1 hour ago, mstoffel said:

Hi experts,

 

I use my Helix Stomp mainly at home as my audio interface. Meaning I have output 1/2 connected to my speakers and usb for recording/playback.

My patches usually consist of an amp followed by a custom IR.

 

Now I want to use the Helix also live. To do that I just want to bypass the IR block (last in chain) and route the signal to the send jack and into the return of my guitar amp (or any other powerapm e.g. SD Powerstage). Output 1/2 would go to FOH including the IR block.

 

My issue is that that's not possible without using an additional block in the split path like that:

 

image.thumb.png.b3c8aa99946c8bcc21b65c6c5df44825.png

 

I don't need the EQ in the second path but I'm not able to draw a line without a block. I could also use a Send Block before the IR but then again I would loose another block......

Any Ideas? Really questioning myself, have read the manual and watched a lot of vids. This actually should be easy...

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

 

Unfortunately the Stomp doesn't let you route a second path that's blank. Dumb, I know. 

 

A less DSP hungry option is to use an FX send block right before the IR. This would have the result of there being no split path. Still, the biggest problem in the Stomp isn't DSP usage itself, but the limit of six blocks so that sixth block use remains precious regardless. 

 

This is something I hope they change in the future because technologically I can't see a reason why they couldn't have a split path without a block. 

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1 hour ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Unfortunately the Stomp doesn't let you route a second path that's blank. Dumb, I know. 

 

A less DSP hungry option is to use an FX send block right before the IR. This would have the result of there being no split path. Still, the biggest problem in the Stomp isn't DSP usage itself, but the limit of six blocks so that sixth block use remains precious regardless. 

 

This is something I hope they change in the future because technologically I can't see a reason why they couldn't have a split path without a block. 

 

That explains it... lol. I missed the part where we were dealing with the Stomp. 

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Got a solution. I created an Y Split Panned the signals left right. Now I have with IR right an without left Output. 

 

image.thumb.png.03e5e90035a9231e17dfdc9bf848aa9d.png

 

Only issue is the difference of line and instrument level on the output......

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28 minutes ago, mstoffel said:

Got a solution. I created an Y Split Panned the signals left right. Now I have with IR right an without left Output. 

 

image.thumb.png.03e5e90035a9231e17dfdc9bf848aa9d.png

 

Only issue is the difference of line and instrument level on the output......

 

I was going to say.... in your original image/routing you NEEDED to put the EQ to split the path, but why not just put the IR to the lower path? Glad you figured that out :)

 

As for your LINE/Instrument level difference... that's easy to work around. The difference in the two is "levels".... the merge  allow you to control both L/R output levels separately. 

  • Set the output to LINE
  • Attenuate the signal going to the amp accordingly. It is likely somewhere around -20db to match the instrument level, maybe a little more.

Note: I would always attenuate rather than boost. That's why I suggest setting it to line, then cutting the volume to the amp rather than setting it to instrument and boosting the volume to the mixer. 

 

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If i could just branch without a block before the IR I would be able to create patches that would work in my homestudio and live. IR always active on Main out. Send  without IR and dedicated level..... But its ok, just wondering why this limitation exists

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2 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

I was going to say.... in your original image/routing you NEEDED to put the EQ to split the path, but why not just put the IR to the lower path? Glad you figured that out :)

 

As for your LINE/Instrument level difference... that's easy to work around. The difference in the two is "levels".... the merge  allow you to control both L/R output levels separately. 

  • Set the output to LINE
  • Attenuate the signal going to the amp accordingly. It is likely somewhere around -20db to match the instrument level, maybe a little more.

Note: I would always attenuate rather than boost. That's why I suggest setting it to line, then cutting the volume to the amp rather than setting it to instrument and boosting the volume to the mixer. 

 

 

2 hours ago, mstoffel said:

If i could just branch without a block before the IR I would be able to create patches that would work in my homestudio and live. IR always active on Main out. Send  without IR and dedicated level..... But its ok, just wondering why this limitation exists

 

That was some very clever and crafty crap you just pulled off.  Thank you for sharing it because now it's another feather in my knowledge cap! Nevertheless, you're right mstoffel that it's a very stupid limitation, and one that I really hope that Line 6 addresses in the future.

 

I should probably put up an ideascale since it matters so much to me, but I don't have the time to actively campaign for it so that it actually gets attention. Hopefully they listen a lot to users since we can't be the only ones scratching our heads at this. 

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3 hours ago, mstoffel said:

If i could just branch without a block before the IR I would be able to create patches that would work in my homestudio and live. IR always active on Main out. Send  without IR and dedicated level..... But its ok, just wondering why this limitation exists

 

FYI: None of the Helix Models including the flagships allow you to SEND without using up a block... the only difference is that the flagships have so many blocks it's not usually an issue. 

 

The layout you posted (with the IR on the bottom path) along with PANNING and SEND LEVELS on the output accomplish what you are after as a template, without using up an additional block.... PROVIDING you don't need stereo :)  IMO...  If you keep a rough template (with merge levels and pans set) you can just copy that as a starting point for the rest of your patches. LEFT is always AMP, RIGHT is always DIRECT .... or vice versa.

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11 minutes ago, codamedia said:

 

FYI: None of the Helix Models including the flagships allow you to SEND without using up a block... the only difference is that the flagships have so many blocks it's not usually an issue. 

 

 

Exactly, it's a weird programming choice that never really bubbled up because most Helix users are drowning in blocks.

 

For Stomp users though, you smack right up against it a lot and you quickly realize there's no reason (I mean, it seems like no reason) it has to be that way. 

 

#FirstWorldProblems

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On 5/9/2019 at 11:00 AM, mstoffel said:

Hi experts,

 

I use my Helix Stomp mainly at home as my audio interface. Meaning I have output 1/2 connected to my speakers and usb for recording/playback.

My patches usually consist of an amp followed by a custom IR.

 

Now I want to use the Helix also live. To do that I just want to bypass the IR block (last in chain) and route the signal to the send jack and into the return of my guitar amp (or any other powerapm e.g. SD Powerstage). Output 1/2 would go to FOH including the IR block.

 

My issue is that that's not possible without using an additional block in the split path like that:

 

image.thumb.png.b3c8aa99946c8bcc21b65c6c5df44825.png

 

I don't need the EQ in the second path but I'm not able to draw a line without a block. I could also use a Send Block before the IR but then again I would loose another block......

Any Ideas? Really questioning myself, have read the manual and watched a lot of vids. This actually should be easy...

 

Thanks,

 

Marco

There’s a simple way to accomplish what you want without using a send block, or having to waste an extra block on path B. The trick is to switch the roles of the Main L/R out and Send L/R. Use Send L/R to send to FOH and use Main L/R to send to your stage amp’s return. Then you can use the IR or Amp block (depending on what your stage amp is) on path B, no need for an extra block. This also has the advantage that the Send L/R sends a fixed level to FOH while the Main L/R volume can be used to conveniently control your stage volume from HX Stomp.

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Top thread here guys.  I'm looking into options for a couple of shows to come sometime later this year, where we'll rehearse traditionally off backline, but where I'd like to work off monitors for the gigs.  I'm budgeting for a FRFR speaker but this will make a nice backstop if I can't put aside enough money.

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On 5/12/2019 at 3:42 PM, amsdenj said:

There’s a simple way to accomplish what you want without using a send block, or having to waste an extra block on path B. The trick is to switch the roles of the Main L/R out and Send L/R. Use Send L/R to send to FOH and use Main L/R to send to your stage amp’s return. Then you can use the IR or Amp block (depending on what your stage amp is) on path B, no need for an extra block. This also has the advantage that the Send L/R sends a fixed level to FOH while the Main L/R volume can be used to conveniently control your stage volume from HX Stomp.

 

@amsdenj - This sounds like it's exactly what I need for my live setup! However I do have a question - 

 

I hooked up the Stomp as you suggested (Send L going to FoH - for testing purposes at home I'm using an frfr PA speaker so Send L went directly into this).

 

The Main L went to my amp and cab, however the problem is I'm getting no sound from the PA speaker. 

 

Do I need to change anything on the Stomp need to be able to use this configuration?

 

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You have to set the output block on path 1B to Send 1/2. Then make sure the level of the split block and send output are appropriate - the defaults should be fine.

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Thanks for the hint and yes that's possible but not what I want. Main outs have balanced output which is best for FOH, send doesn't.....

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Hi,

 

just wanted to share my final solution. The tricky thing is actually the testing of such a setup hence the L/Mono labeled input and output jacks have special behavior.

  • Say you have one Guitar plugged into L/Mono (this is a must) the signal will be fed into L/R on path A channel evenly -> That's good
  • Then you create a Y Split and you split L100 to Path A and R100 to Path B, doesn't really matter which path though
  • Now comes the important part I had a lot of struggle with: If you would like to use you Amp  (Path A without IR) standalone (no FOH attached) you must route that signal in the merge block to RIGHT and go from that to your power amp / cab.
  • Why? Because if you route it to the L/Mono output and your right output is not connected Helix will mix both outputs to L/Mono and you will here both Signals (IR plus without IR) 
  • But using the right output you have some freedom.
    • Only right out connected -> signal without IR
    • Right to amp Left to FOH -> Live setup
  • One thing is still not optimal and I'll try to fix that with a snapshot. Say you would like to go only FOH (which in my case will never happen) then you still get again mixed channels on left output for this case you must set path A to -60db on the merge block.

Hope that helps in case I  was able to convey the message (it is and sounds complicated :-)

 

Kind Regards,

 

Marco

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Finished my preset. I added a snapshot where I in the merge block dialed  down path A to -60 and panned path B (including IR) to center. Additionally I had to bump up the gain on path B to + 3dB to get the same volume. Find the preset attached.

RhythmLive.hlx

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